England u21s (2 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

sorry, yes well done. I will get the open top bus ready... We were very second best in that game, if your happy with that then fine.

Tit!

We didn't win it so no such celebration needed. But to be suggest we haven't done well getting to a semi-final is crass imo. They certainly haven't done well enough to win it or put real pressure on the full squad, but if you simply treat the achievement with the same disdain as our relegation...they may as well just retire now as they're never going to be good enough.

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[covcity4life]

dissapointed that germans dominated us so much

and yet another pen loss, ridiculous

AB did a good job,but we should hire managers that play more tehcnically

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Not saying they didn't do well but they went out in the first knock out stage. Like another one of the FA's teams 12 months earlier.

But 1 step away from the final too. So we agree, they did well. Looked impressive in some games. Just didn't take enough chances in this game

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[covcity4life]

in this game they were dominated for 75 minutes

 

[CJ_covblaze]

But 1 step away from the final too. So we agree, they did well. Looked impressive in some games. Just didn't take enough chances in this game

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That's been the case with the senior side too. Fine until we get to the box (or near it) and we fall apart. It was the case at the Euros last year. Too wasteful.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Boothroyd should be nowhere near the England setup, never mind the U21s. If the FA and Dan Ashworth are serious about this 'England DNA' then we need to look elsewhere. Last night was just long ball to Abraham after Germany got control of the game

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Boothroyd should be nowhere near the England setup, never mind the U21s. If the FA and Dan Ashworth are serious about this 'England DNA' then we need to look elsewhere. Last night was just long ball to Abraham after Germany got control of the game

Southgate too. Seems clueless. Hope I'm wrong but I can't see a positive future with those two in the set up.

 

[Covstu]

Tit!

We didn't win it so no such celebration needed. But to be suggest we haven't done well getting to a semi-final is crass imo. They certainly haven't done well enough to win it or put real pressure on the full squad, but if you simply treat the achievement with the same disdain as our relegation...they may as well just retire now as they're never going to be good enough.

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What achievement? Getting out of the group put you directly in the semis so technically the same achievement as the senior squad. We were outclassed and did well to get to pens which let's face it with circa 40 odd shots on our goal, the Germans were wasteful.
As a country we don't treat the u21 seriously particularly compared to the Germans and Spanish etc. Why did we need to call up rashford, Alli etc into the senior squad for shite friendlies when they could have been utilised here? It was a typical English tournament performance and a lost opportunity in my opinion

 

[SkyblueBazza]

What achievement? Getting out of the group put you directly in the semis so technically the same achievement as the senior squad. We were outclassed and DID WELL to get to pens which let's face it with circa 40 odd shots on our goal, the Germans were wasteful.
As a country we don't treat the u21 seriously particularly compared to the Germans and Spanish etc. Why did we need to call up rashford, Alli etc into the senior squad for shite friendlies when they could have been utilised here? It was a typical English tournament performance and a lost opportunity in my opinion

Ah so they DID do well

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[Otis]

Boothroyd should be nowhere near the England setup, never mind the U21s. If the FA and Dan Ashworth are serious about this 'England DNA' then we need to look elsewhere. Last night was just long ball to Abraham after Germany got control of the game

We started off brilliantly last night against the Germans and could easily been 3 goals up and that most certainly would have been enough for us to have gone on to win the game. Then we would have been saying how good we were after.

For some strange reason though we changed tactics and started to play the ball long up to Abraham and it didn't work and we kept just giving possession away to the Germans. We also stood off rather than try to deny them space and from that point on the Germans had the upper hand.

In the end we were lucky to still be at 2-2 come full time.

I did like the look of Chalobah, he looks to be an England star of the future. Chilwell, Mawson, Chambers and Ward-Prowse have looked promising too.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Southgate too. Seems clueless. Hope I'm wrong but I can't see a positive future with those two in the set up.

Agreed. Roy Hodgson was abysmal but at least he took risks. Southgate is just really negative and the forwards are always isolated, I can't see us getting anywhere with him

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

We started off brilliantly last night against the Germans and could easily been 3 goals up and that most certainly would have been enough for us to have gone on to win the game. Then we would have been saying how good we were after.

For some strange reason though we changed tactics and started to play the ball long up to Abraham and it didn't work and we kept just giving possession away to the Germans. We also stood off rather than try to deny them space and from that point on the Germans had the upper hand.

In the end we were lucky to still be at 2-2 come full time.

I did like the look of Chalobah, he looks to be an England star of the future. Chilwell, Mawson, Chambers and Ward-Prowse have looked promising too.

I would expect JWP to be in the next senior squad, not as if theres much competition though in the rigid Livermore and out of form Dier. Chalobah is another one trapped by Chelsea, he needs to follow Ake, Solanke and Brown out of Chelsea to get regular games

 

[Covstu]

Ah so they DID do well

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I'll warm the bus up fella

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

England traditionally always tend to do well at youth tournaments. We fill our sides with early bloomers & physically developed players even from as young as U15.

I personally believe this is why England are so far behind Spain, France, Germany etc. I remember Conor Wickham being hyped for his exploits at England level but soon struggled when he wasn't the strongest player on the pitch & lacked technically. We will compete with these teams at youth level but we'll be lucky to get 2-3 players into our senior squad whilst Germany will get 5-6 because the German players soon catch up physically to add to their better technical skills.

In the 2009 U21 final, Germany had Neuer, Boateng, Hummels, Howedes, Khedira and Ozil. England's biggest successes were Milner and Walcott.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Agreed. Roy Hodgson was abysmal but at least he took risks. Southgate is just really negative and the forwards are always isolated, I can't see us getting anywhere with him

I'll never forget Rooney signalling to the bench in the 55th minute against Iceland that he needed to come off. He was ill, played anyway, ran himself ragged and was knackered. He could barely move let alone run. Rashford (who Rooney, his captain, had pointed to) warmed up for around half an hour and finally came on with a few minutes left and we finally looked like we could equalise. This was an example of the mistakes Roy was making.

Despite the above I'd probably still have him back over Southgate.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I'll warm the bus up fella

The simple fact is...England is not really a significant force on the European stage let alone World stage. We are not as good as we would like to think - & are drifting further & further away.
That's why in relative terms I say we did well...call it better than I expected if you want.

Look how things have changed in the champions league have so quickly changed...not so long ago we had 3-4 in the qtr finals, 2-3 in the semis...even 2 finalists once. Now Leicester our only representatives in the QF. We have several lost generations at international level. They have been bought up playing the quintessential English way, & thrown into a continental/global way that renders our traditional style as pretty hopeless. That is imo because we try so hard to engineer our game to play more akin to their style. Maybe we ought abandon that ideal & just go back to a traditional English manager & style of play that our national side would feel more comfortable with?

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[Otis]

The simple fact is...England is not really a significant force on the European stage let alone World stage. We are not as good as we would like to think - & are drifting further & further away.
That's why in relative terms I say we did well...call it better than I expected if you want.

Look how things have changed in the champions league have so quickly changed...not so long ago we had 3-4 in the qtr finals, 2-3 in the semis...even 2 finalists once. Now Leicester our only representatives in the QF. We have several lost generations at international level. They have been bought up playing the quintessential English way, & thrown into a continental/global way that renders our traditional style as pretty hopeless. That is imo because we try so hard to engineer our game to play more akin to their style. Maybe we ought abandon that ideal & just go back to a traditional English manager & style of play that our national side would feel more comfortable with?

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Not so sure on the European Champions League thing. Just how many English players are playing for Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City and Man U? Hardly any is the answer.

Could be argued it is as much the foreigners letting us down as the English players.

How many England internationals are there playing for Man City? Sterling and ......? Stones. Then who?

Chelsea? Cahill and .....?

 

[Covstu]

The simple fact is...England is not really a significant force on the European stage let alone World stage. We are not as good as we would like to think - & are drifting further & further away.
That's why in relative terms I say we did well...call it better than I expected if you want.

Look how things have changed in the champions league have so quickly changed...not so long ago we had 3-4 in the qtr finals, 2-3 in the semis...even 2 finalists once. Now Leicester our only representatives in the QF. We have several lost generations at international level. They have been bought up playing the quintessential English way, & thrown into a continental/global way that renders our traditional style as pretty hopeless. That is imo because we try so hard to engineer our game to play more akin to their style. Maybe we ought abandon that ideal & just go back to a traditional English manager & style of play that our national side would feel more comfortable with?

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Don't disagree but for me we do not have an indentity in the England setup as there isn't many people coming through u19, u21 then senior levels. You will get players like sterling, stones, rashford who have played in all but not at a thorough level whereas Spain and Germany have players at that level who turn out for Madrid, Munich etc but then have extensive caps at the younger levels. We don't value these levels and happily 'jump' the decent players to the senior squad then wonder why all of our England teams have little cohesion. For me I would have liked to have seen all of those qualifying players turn up for this tournament and earn their stripes, winning and success breeds confidence which would greatly help the senior squad as well as their clubs. Our youngsters have little to no chance at premier league levels so this problem will continue and continue

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Not so sure on the European Champions League thing. Just how many English players are playing for Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City and Man U? Hardly any is the answer.

Could be argued it is as much the foreigners letting us down as the English players.

How many England internationals are there playing for Man City? Sterling and ......? Stones. Then who?

Chelsea? Cahill and .....?

Yes the foreigners are having their talent coached out of them to fit in with the English hybrid style that struggles with English traditional style & is largely ineffectual against the continental style.


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[SkyblueBazza]

Don't disagree but for me we do not have an indentity in the England setup as there isn't many people coming through u19, u21 then senior levels. You will get players like sterling, stones, rashford who have played in all but not at a thorough level whereas Spain and Germany have players at that level who turn out for Madrid, Munich etc but then have extensive caps at the younger levels. We don't value these levels and happily 'jump' the decent players to the senior squad then wonder why all of our England teams have little cohesion. For me I would have liked to have seen all of those qualifying players turn up for this tournament and earn their stripes, winning and success breeds confidence which would greatly help the senior squad as well as their clubs. Our youngsters have little to no chance at premier league levels so this problem will continue and continue

No argument with that

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[SBAndy]

Don't disagree but for me we do not have an indentity in the England setup as there isn't many people coming through u19, u21 then senior levels. You will get players like sterling, stones, rashford who have played in all but not at a thorough level whereas Spain and Germany have players at that level who turn out for Madrid, Munich etc but then have extensive caps at the younger levels. We don't value these levels and happily 'jump' the decent players to the senior squad then wonder why all of our England teams have little cohesion. For me I would have liked to have seen all of those qualifying players turn up for this tournament and earn their stripes, winning and success breeds confidence which would greatly help the senior squad as well as their clubs. Our youngsters have little to no chance at premier league levels so this problem will continue and continue

Think it should be a minimum requirement for younger players to have played in an entire u21 campaign before breaking into the senior team. Would allow them to mould together but also teach them the important ability of coping when away at a tournament which it seems so many struggle like buggery with.

There would have to be some form of exceptions rule to allow players never considered at u21 level in (see Rickie Lambert) but it would also mean players like Dele Alli could have done his u21 qualification by 19 and then been promoted to the senior team. Has he made a single u21 appearance out of interest?

 

[Covstu]

Think it should be a minimum requirement for younger players to have played in an entire u21 campaign before breaking into the senior team. Would allow them to mould together but also teach them the important ability of coping when away at a tournament which it seems so many struggle like buggery with.

There would have to be some form of exceptions rule to allow players never considered at u21 level in (see Rickie Lambert) but it would also mean players like Dele Alli could have done his u21 qualification by 19 and then been promoted to the senior team. Has he made a single u21 appearance out of interest?

I have no issues with senior team exposure but not at the expense of their age group. Alli has played twice for u21 and as much as he is ready he could have been better if learnt more at the lower age groups.

I think you look at Man Utd kids during the beckham era, they all lived in each other's pockets, knew each other inside out and this was what made them a special team. Surely this model can be replicated at national team youngster level

 

[Gazolba]

Football is a game between two teams of eleven players who attempt to kick the ball into a net.
The game lasts 90 minutes and at the end of the ninety minutes, the German's win on penalties.

 

[Otis]

Football is a game between two teams of eleven players who attempt to kick the ball into a net.
The game lasts 90 minutes and at the end of the ninety minutes, the German's win on penalties.

Thank you, Grasshopper.