England v Sweden Matchday thread (2 Viewers)

[Marty]

I can t entertain the idea of keeping our only player of class on the bench

Why? If he sits on the bench, it sends a clear message that nobody's place is guaranteed. The team that started last night is more then good enough to beat Ukraine.

 

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[Otis]

It's not about sending a message though it's about playing his best players.

 

[stupot07]

It's not about sending a message though it's about playing his best players.

Completely agree with you Otis

 

[stupot07]

Why? If he sits on the bench, it sends a clear message that nobody's place is guaranteed. The team that started last night is more then good enough to beat Ukraine.

The team that started last night wasn't good enough to beat sweden. It took a substitution to change and ultimately win the game.

 

[stupot07]

I agree that Milner hasn't done it so far, hes an average player at that level but hes better defensively then Walcott and can help Glen Johnson, Walcott was on the pitch for about 5 minutes and there winger skinned both him and Johnson, hadn't seen that once while Milner was in front on Johnson, I see Walcott as nothing more then an impact player at that level, I'd of had Adam Johnson in that position myself.

The thought of having to play a particular player to protect another just doesn't sit right with me, Roy either trusts Johnson to do his job or he don't, and if he don't he should drop him and play Jones. I would have also taken Adam Johnson but Roy didn't. Milner is a below average player at international level, and at the age of 26 should be at his peak. IMO he has been ruined by being utilised as a utility player, he started as a winger, did a couple of stints at fullback and now plays more centrally.

 

[Marty]

It's not about sending a message though it's about playing his best players.

It's not about playing the best players at all, It's all about getting a group of footballers being comfortable with each other and being to play off each other.

 

[Marty]

The team that started last night wasn't good enough to beat sweden. It took a substitution to change and ultimately win the game.

It was good enough, 2 defensive lapses cost the goals. They didn't threaten much and didn't look like scoring. Walcott came off the bench against tired legs and it shown, his goal was very lucky, he did play well but I see him as nothing more then an impact player.

 

[Otis]

It's all about getting a group of footballers being comfortable with each other and being to play off each other.




And you are saying we can't do that with Rooney? The Rooney who plays alongside Young and Welbeck week in week out and has an understanding with and who can all play off each other you mean?

 

[Marty]

The thought of having to play a particular player to protect another just doesn't sit right with me, Roy either trusts Johnson to do his job or he don't, and if he don't he should drop him and play Jones. I would have also taken Adam Johnson but Roy didn't. Milner is a below average player at international level, and at the age of 26 should be at his peak. IMO he has been ruined by being utilised as a utility player, he started as a winger, did a couple of stints at fullback and now plays more centrally.

I'd have taken Micah Richards as my first choice right back, Johnson is poor defensively and average going forward. Think we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Marty]

It's all about getting a group of footballers being comfortable with each other and being to play off each other.




And you are saying we can't do that with Rooney? The Rooney who plays alongside Young and Welbeck week in week out and has an understanding with and who can all play off each other you mean?

Taken what I said out of context. I'm not saying that we can't do it with Rooney, but I assumed you were talking as a general rule and as a reply gave what I think.

It sends the wrong message to the fringe players having 'undropable' players. Rooney was an a idiot and he needs to wait for his chance again.

 

[Otis]

Taken what I said out of context. I'm not saying that we can't do it with Rooney, but I assumed you were talking as a general rule and as a reply gave what I think.

It sends the wrong message to the fringe players having 'undropable' players. Rooney was an a idiot and he needs to wait for his chance again.

What sort of signal though does it send to not play your best player and the one player all the opposition teams fear?

Aren't you playing straight into their hands by not playing him? He's the one play any opposition team and manager fears above all others.

He has to play and it's not even worth arguing the toss over as we all know he will play.

For me he is the most skilful player we have, the best goalscoring option, the best passer of the ball and the most accurate passer of the ball we have in the entire squad.

It would be madness not to play him.

 

[Marty]

Wouldn't we playing into their hands by playing him?? A manager sets up his team to deal with the Rooney threat, you turn up with a completely different set up that their manager hasn't even thought about. Wouldn't that be better then being the same old predictable team??

He has missed 2 games in this tournament through his own stupidity. He needs to wait for his chance again, like I said I think it sends out the wrong message.

 

[Otis]

Well, as I say, it's a moot point.

He'll be playing and almost certainly the first name down on the team sheet.

 

[Marty]

Well, as I say, it's a moot point.

He'll be playing and almost certainly the first name down on the team sheet.

Agree.....

 

[stupot07]

Taken what I said out of context. I'm not saying that we can't do it with Rooney, but I assumed you were talking as a general rule and as a reply gave what I think.

It sends the wrong message to the fringe players having 'undropable' players. Rooney was an a idiot and he needs to wait for his chance again.

But young and Milner are having poor tournaments, especially Young - what does keeping an under performing players in a side say about 'undroppable' players? We won on Friday but we were far from good - it was a very scrappy first halve and Sweden had the better of the second until Walcott came on.

 

[Grendel]

But young and Milner are having poor tournaments, especially Young - what does keeping an under performing players in a side say about 'undroppable' players? We won on Friday but we were far from good - it was a very scrappy first halve and Sweden had the better of the second until Walcott came on.

Spot on. To suggest Rooney can not be found a place when players are not holding their places on merit by playing poorly is ridiculous. He is one of very few players we have who any of the top sides would consider to be worthy of a place in their team.

 

[stupot07]

It was good enough, 2 defensive lapses cost the goals. They didn't threaten much and didn't look like scoring. Walcott came off the bench against tired legs and it shown, his goal was very lucky, he did play well but I see him as nothing more then an impact player.

You could argue that our first was a defensive lapse from Sweden who let Carroll get in between two defenders. Great ball and great header but he was left with a free header. Also we created very little too bar Young shot when he should have crossed.

We were 2-1 down before the Walcott sub, I fail to see how this proves the starting line up was good enough, unless your talking about 'on paper'.

 

[Otis]

Spot on. To suggest Rooney can not be found a place when players are not holding their places on merit by playing poorly is ridiculous. He is one of very few players we have who any of the top sides would consider to be worthy of a place in their team.

Exactly. Only Ashley Cole and Wayne Rooney and probably Joe Hart would get in the starting 11's of any other team in these championships.

 

[Macca]

If we had a wealth of talented options I would agree with Marty but to me he is what we missed the other night. A player for the other team to fear like we feared Ibrahimovich. However he is still a nob!

 

[Otis]

So's Marlon King. Didn't stop us wanting him to play and score every game did it.

And as you quite rightly said, we don't have a wealth of talent. Only Rooney and Cole and possibly Joe Hart could be described as being world class. Every opportunity you have you have to play these 3 players if at all possible.

And Rooney was sorely missed the other night. We very nearly lost the game.

 

[Covstu]

i think if you were Carroll or Wellbeck, you would be pissed off at getting dropped but we need Rooney to play, you could see him itching to be involved. He has done his crime and needs to play in my opinion. We need to replace milner, he isnt have a terrable time but creating little, we need Wallcott on to frighten with pace.

 

[stupot07]

A quote from a bbc article re: Rooney and Wellbeck

The pair struck up an impressive partnership during the 2011-12 season, scoring 30 goals between them on the 18 occasions they started together.

This could persuade Hodgson to select Welbeck ahead of another England's goalscorers against Sweden, Andy Carroll.

 

[Marty]

Like I said earlier/last night, I'd stick with Milner as he offers better protection to Johnson, Walcott doesn't do that well enough IMO and I only see him as a impact player at that level to stretch the game in the last 20 minutes. I'd have taken Adam Johnson as my first choice.

The Carroll goal was a great cross followed by a quality piece of movement in the box, situations like that are often undefendable, having a free kick cross where a player had a free header is just a lapse in concentration.

Rooney was an idiot for kicking out at the opposition and getting himself suspended, he needs to wait for his chance again or he'll never learn. Now, i'm not saying don't play him at all, but leave him on the bench, if/when we need something a little more upfront then he can come on. I think he'll have more hunger about him if he has to fight for his place back.

we're just going round in circles so won't bother replying to any reply's.

 

[Otis]

Certainly think if Rooney comes in that Welbeck will not lose his place and it will be Carroll to make way.

Carroll is fine in certain games but you kind of get the feeling and as 'a la Platt' at Cov, England may well end up just lumping the ball to him. Welbeck and Rooney really work well together so those two will both surely play. You would have to say it will be out of Milner, Young or Carroll to make way.

Young has been truly dreadful, but again you've got the Man U link there and a trio of players who know each others' games inside out in Rooney, Young and Welbeck. Suspect Young will get picked again, with possibly Walcott for Milner and Rooney for Carroll.

And can I just add, with Rooney in the starting 11 for England the win ratio is 60.8%. The loss ratio with Rooney in the starting 11 is 17.6%.

 

[CCFC Germany]

I say bench Rooney as they did quite OK without him against Sweden.
If they really get in trouble you can still bring him on...