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Why give Nick grief?
I imagine we all know at least one of those who attended and from what I understand they were the right mix, not yes men and am sure they would have asked the right questions. Nick got it right.
If it was supposed to be all secretive why was it held in the bar of a City centre pub.
ML has and is meeting a few different groups, let's just hope we all continue to ask the right questions and in the correct way.

dongonzalos said:

Should have asked me at the time. Or when some dropped out seen as you seem so desperate all of a sudden for me to do it now.
But I am sure you were not sarcastic and you are not goading when you finally offered.

Out of interest when did you first get asked?
Are the million questions you are getting now that bad really?

Did you say earlier there was no limit on how many could go?

Would you mind telling us about your meeting?

Do you know if there will be the promised public forum?

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I couldn't give a shit to be fair of you go or not, you are the one massively bothered so I am saying if you are bothered I can see if you can go.

It wasn't a big formal thing, I wasn't given a rule list. Ml s words were the more the merrier, that was about four or five hours before.

I didn't want to take the piss to be fair, I assumed more would be happening so I could kind of get more people along.

The meeting, it lasted ages and was pretty much mostly over my head, thankfully football was on.

As for the inviting my mates thing, wouldn't have said that when every one was wondering around awkwardly having no idea who was who. The best thing about it was seeing that others are actually decent people and sharing some fishing tips.

Nick said:

I couldn't give a shit to be fair of you go or not, you are the one massively bothered so I am saying if you are bothered I can see if you can go....

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@Don, come on chap, you're getting wound up now. ML isn't going to reveal anything sensational to a bunch of city fans that hasn't already been said. If you're that steamed up about it, take Nick up on his offer. Or ask if the opportunity arises again, please could you be informed.

Let it go.

RegTheDonk said:

@Don, come on chap, you're getting wound up now. ML isn't going to reveal anything much than what he's already said to a bunch of city fans. If you're that steamed up about it, take Nick up on his offer. Or ask if the opportunity arises again, please could you be informed.

Let it go.

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That is the best way to be fair, nobody was vetted on the door, I only passed on first names and contact numbers (didnt mention forum usernames) as I wanted things to be balanced and then if people didn't want to announce they went, they don't have to to prevent this sort of thing

If another group would be up for it (I am not going, I am washing my hair) then I am happy to pass details on to see if something can be arranged.

Grendel said:

I didn't just meet him.

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What

Deleted member 5849 said:

The bitching on here and looking for some kind of angle to run down people who dare to talk to the 'other side' is as much a reason as anything not to say anything.

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I certainly wasn't intending to bitch or run down the 'other side'. To be fair I think this all started when it was revealed in the CT that these smaller meetings had been taking place. There was talk that only select people had been invited and it was a 'secret' event. It turns out thats pretty accurate! Select people were invited (albeit by Nick rather than SISU and to be honest I'm not sure it was really fair for SISU to place him in that position) and ML asked people to keep the meeting off the record.

Grendel said:

Interestingly one of the people I was with said pretty much this. He said he has been asked to comment on the situation at Coventry numerous times but said anyone who tries to reasonably side with the club is just castigated in the media so he steers clear.

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The problem I have with the likes of Reid, Sinclaire and SISU themselves is they come out with sweeping statements, for example 'the club needs to own the stadium' but no detail is given or any argument to back up the claims. If SISU or anyone else came out and said this is what we need, this is why we need it and this is how it benefits the club you may well see them get a more positive response. Of course there are always people who won't agree but things can't constantly be tailored to stop one or two 'shouts' individuals having a moan.

chiefdave said:

I certainly wasn't intending to bitch or run down the 'other side'. To be fair I think this all started when it was revealed in the CT that these smaller meetings had been taking place. There was talk that only select people had been invited and it was a 'secret' event. It turns out thats pretty accurate! Select people were invited (albeit by Nick rather than SISU and to be honest I'm not sure it was really fair for SISU to place him in that position) and ML asked people to keep the meeting off the record.

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In all honesty, I wasn't really forced into any position I guess. It wasn't a "you must choose" with a gun to my head at all, most of it was left with me and no pressure at all. I also wasn't told it was only "select", I genuinely didn't know how many would be ok so didn't want to go overboard.

Nick said:

In all honesty, I wasn't really forced into any position I guess. It wasn't a "you must choose" with a gun to my head at all, most of it was left with me and no pressure at all. I also wasn't told it was only "select", I genuinely didn't know how many would be ok so didn't want to go overboard.

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Appreciate that just meant that they could easily have put a post on here as the club and asked people or put it on the website or something. Don't really see why they needed to involve you at a time when the slightest little thing sets people off!

dongonzalos said:

I applaud the club meeting with the fans they should do far more of it fair play to them.

I don't applaud people keeping to themselves once they have had a meeting.

I don't applaud sarcastic comments when someone out the loop is asking how are the meetings getting arranged.

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I've never made any sarcastic comments about this and if people who went were asked not to mention it then you can read what you want into that. You could go all PGSM about it and seriously wound up or be grateful they're finally doing something positive (even if it is Mr Labovitch is spearheading the PR initiative).

dongonzalos said:

To be fair mate it was more the sarcastic response to mine and schmee's initial question.

The childish goading afterwards and the little snide comments that pissed me off.

All would have been avoided with the eventual post that Nick put in, explaining how it came about.

Seems a bit odd not to have just done that straight away when people were genuinely asking reasonable questions.

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Why? Everyone else accepts it. Its obvious if the club is looking at trying to get views from many areas and they are going to ask in this instance the forum organiser to select people who seem appropriate.

The choices look to have been good.

James Smith said:

and if people who went were asked not to mention it.

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I would just like to clarify that I personally was not asked not to mention it (lots of negatives there). Answers off the record is a different thing and, like I said before, in my own view there was nothing worth mentioning anyway. I can have a personal suspicion that he would actually like things repeated too... but I'm going to take everything at face value just for the moment, and take it on trust.

chiefdave said:

Appreciate that just meant that they could easily have put a post on here as the club and asked people or put it on the website or something. Don't really see why they needed to involve you at a time when the slightest little thing sets people off!

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Well some of my feedback was that a large forum is a total waste of time, as it ends up with people grandstanding with the I'M NOT GOING TO SIXFIELDS and not allowing any ability to push or follow up on pertinent questions (see how OSB was moved on from swiftly at one of the earlier forums in favour of these kind of statements) - so a large scale forum is a total waste of time, in my opinion . That is NOT the same as saying they shouldn't engage with fans, but pantomime is not the way to do it in my view.

I did, however, make a point of pointing out if there is a message they want out there, they should liaise with the SkyBlueTrust and, much as I would never expect Labovitch to speak for everyone else involved with SISU/Otium/CCFC, it was unfair to bring personal issues with a couple into it and he should leave those issues aside as it was unfair to deny the rest of the membership access, as each member had their own view, and was not defined by one total position on the subject.

Beyond that... there's absolutely nothing wrong with the research principle of a number of small groups to get feedback from a cross-section of supporters. That is perfectly normal practice, and doesn't have to have a sinister undertone! The best way I can ensure that there is no sinister undertone is by taking it at face value, and not engaging in accidental propaganda on behalf of SISU/ACL/whoever by regurgitating badly remembered off-hand comments... this thread suggests many are keen to be part of SISU's PR machine, and are disappointed they didn't get the opportunity! I would rather tell him to put anything he wants in the public domain through other channels... rather than use me to do so via a message board. (Again, I have to emphasise this is NOT what was suggested I should do, just my nagging paranoid suspicion!)

Now... I may be many things, but one thing I do have is half a brain, and the ability to ask relevant questions and follow them up - that's my training. The irony is that on this board a familiar refrain from some is OMG WHY DON'T THOSE AT SIXFIELDS CHALLENGE FISHER?

Well... given the opportunity to challenge Labovitch... I did just that, and it's still not good enough for some! I can't help it if I couldn't get the absolute killer answer but, tbh, he's an intelligent man and in a world of ifs buts and maybes I was unlikely to get that one way or another, wasn't I. My own understanding is illuminated, but I prefer not to just accept everything at face value, and accept I only hear one side. On the back of that meeting I now have some follow up questions running through my mind, but it's best I ask them to the relevant people to see if I get answers that help my understanding or not. I may never get the answers I want, may never be able to reach a conclusion, but such is life.

The question is... if I were to meet with people from the other 'side' would I then be expected to make everything public? No, I wouldn't. I have my own belief system that involves doing right by people if they do right by me, and that means respecting their right not to have things publicised needlessly - if there is nothing worth repeating, what benefit is there of coming on here and saying HA HA HA I MET LABO LAST NIGHT OMGUS HE LURRRRVES ME AN THINKS UR ALL A BUNCH OF COCKS BUT I AINT TELLING YA WHAT HE SAID INNIT BUT I NO EVERYTHING NOW LOL. Before I went, I was very keen to emphasise I didn't want to go and find myself quoted out of context at a later date, so it's only fair I extend the same courtesy back. Chances are, now he's met me he thinks I'm a cock anyway! Again, such is life.

There is no worthwhile game changing feedback to give, anything said is on these boards anyway or has little basis on the balance of evidence (yet?), so why this has to be blown up to monstrous proportions, I dunno. It's like some want me to repeat things to help an assertion become FACT.

As an aside, when I met McGinnity all those years back I asked why they were spending cash on the likes of Stern John, and not putting the money towards buying back ACL, so the club was in better shape long term. His answer was a decisive 'we *will* own the ground again' without any backing up how he intended to make that happen! Not only was he spectacularly wrong, he also proved why it was a good idea not to take an assertion and repeat it as truth...

As with NW I also strongly advised against a large forum. I have never been a fan of them anyway and in the current circumstances I cannot see how it will help.

The other thing I told ML very candidly is that he does seem very sensitive when challenged and starts to antagonise. My first comment was regarding asset stripping in the championship and his interpretation was fixed assets as in a normal business whereas I meant players and management. He needs to think more akin to how fans think.

There was a lot of information given - some known and some not. By giving it you would expect the motivation would be to leak it though some of it was very sensitive - one allegation in particular - and that will remain with me.

One comment all three made and were united on was very interesting but repeating it could again cause problems as it is he said, she said.

Personally I would have structured it differently. There was too much information showing the clubs innocence and the councils guilt and not enough on moving forward.

I did find him engaging and willing to listen and certainly I don't think he would shy away from discussion with any supporter. I would be happy to meet again but would want it to be a more structured meeting going through some agreed issues.

There were two others in the meeting with me which I am not sure why. I was very interested in the contribution from one and curious why the other one was actually there.

Grendel said:

Personally I would have structured it differently. There was too much information showing the clubs innocence and the councils guilt and not enough on moving forward.

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I'd agree with that, and is what I meant by him wanting to follow a set narrative, and me wanting to take him away from that. Even if accepting for the purposes of argument 100% blame council, 0% blame SISU, I wanted to hear more of how SISU were going to, positively, resolve issues in whatever way, be it repairing relations with the council, or building a new stadium etc. What's done is done, will come out in the wash in one way or another, but what I want is a reassurance that even if everything goes against the way our owners hope it does, there is a plan that involves helping and supporting our football club.

I'm still waiting for that reassurance tbh! Maybe it will come, maybe it won't.

Deleted member 5849 said:

I'd agree with that, and is what I meant by him wanting to follow a set narrative, and me wanting to take him away from that. Even if accepting for the purposes of argument 100% blame council, 0% blame SISU, I wanted to hear more of how SISU were going to, positively, resolve issues in whatever way, be it repairing relations with the council, or building a new stadium etc. What's done is done, will come out in the wash in one way or another, but what I want is a reassurance that even if everything goes against the way our owners hope it does, there is a plan that involves helping and supporting our football club.

I'm still waiting for that reassurance tbh! Maybe it will come, maybe it won't.

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Thanks for your assessment and the time taken.

Deleted member 5849 said:

I'd agree with that, and is what I meant by him wanting to follow a set narrative, and me wanting to take him away from that. Even if accepting for the purposes of argument 100% blame council, 0% blame SISU, I wanted to hear more of how SISU were going to, positively, resolve issues in whatever way, be it repairing relations with the council, or building a new stadium etc. What's done is done, will come out in the wash in one way or another, but what I want is a reassurance that even if everything goes against the way our owners hope it does, there is a plan that involves helping and supporting our football club.

I'm still waiting for that reassurance tbh! Maybe it will come, maybe it won't.

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I was supposed to be in the same meeting as you but when I heard Letsall was there I went earlier (joke)

I would certainly have expected the proper meeting to have been run as a focus group with structured questions. I couldn't do the evening but went between meetings. I would have liked to have been in the full group as being on my own it was difficult and I kept trying to get back to an agenda. He should do it again but have an agenda and structure.

Grendel said:

I was supposed to be in the same meeting as you but when I heard Letsall was there I went earlier (joke)

I would certainly have expected the proper meeting to have been run as a focus group with structured questions. I couldn't do the evening but went between meetings. I would have liked to have been in the full group as being on my own it was difficult and I kept trying to get back to an agenda. He should do it again but have an agenda and structure.

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So has It changed your opinion that they will lose the JR?

Grendel said:

I was supposed to be in the same meeting as you but when I heard Letsall was there I went earlier (joke)

I would certainly have expected the proper meeting to have been run as a focus group with structured questions. I couldn't do the evening but went between meetings. I would have liked to have been in the full group as being on my own it was difficult and I kept trying to get back to an agenda. He should do it again but have an agenda and structure.

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Off topic but last seemed a decent fella, as did all who were there.

Nick said:

Off topic but last seemed a decent fella, as did all who were there.

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Yes we all are and In the Trust too ,we 're all decent and we're all City fans .

Nick said:

Off topic but last seemed a decent fella, as did all who were there.

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Yeah, I can reassure BSB that he can go and complain about the whistle to last's face, without fear in the future

wingy said:

Yes we all are and In the Trust too ,we 're all decent and we're all City fans .

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That was probably the best thing to come out of it for me. Oh and the fact people still drink tomato juice

Yes, we are all City fans.
Letsallsingtogether is one of the good guys, he just cares a great deal.

My argument in all this is that if a City fan has evidence regarding who is in the right or wrong they should tell us. Why should we have to pay a lawyer to talk to a judge when the information/evidence could be in front of us all now?

wingy said:

So has It changed your opinion that they will lose the JR?

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I am no expert - if they have sufficient evidence to back up the claims they will win hands down but do they? If they do will this make any difference. As one if the other independent observers stated - even if they win the council will not hand over the ground. He believed the council are incapable of handing it over - especially to sisu - and would hang on to it regardless, even if the offer was massively above market price.

dongonzalos said:

Not sure what that has to do with been annoyed by sarcastic responses to straight forward reasonable questions but thanks all the same.

I didn't have a problem with Nick getting approached

I don't have a problem with the club talking to fans it's great and should happen more often.

I have a problem with the person who knew how people were getting invited been sarcastic when the question was asked how was it happening instead of just explaining it.

Nick posted quite a bit before finally explaining what was quite a reasonable answer.

There was no reason not to have done that as soon as people starting asking about these meetings.

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Other people did get explanations straight away it was the tone and attitude, you clearly aren't interested in meeting him but wanted to kick up a fuss.

What I want to know is why didn't I get an invite to Mark Labovitch's Masons meeting?

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:

What I want to know is why didn't I get an invite to Mark Labovitch's Masons meeting?

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He's meeting some more in Guy's Cliffe later.

Deleted member 5849 said:

He's meeting some more in Guy's Cliffe later.

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Sorry Northern didn't understand

dongonzalos said:

Not sure what that has to do with been annoyed by sarcastic responses to straight forward reasonable questions but thanks all the same.

I didn't have a problem with Nick getting approached

I don't have a problem with the club talking to fans it's great and should happen more often.

I have a problem with the person who knew how people were getting invited been sarcastic when the question was asked how was it happening instead of just explaining it.

Nick posted quite a bit before finally explaining what was quite a reasonable answer.

There was no reason not to have done that as soon as people starting asking about these meetings.

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It's obvious you don't want to meet him and are just bitching for the sake of it. Its embarrasing now.

Grendel said:

It's obvious you don't want to meet him and are just bitching for the sake of it. Its embarrasing now.

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me thinks it is you that is embarrasing... lets not lose sight of the fact that sisu have overseen two relegations, and a third is likely next year. Yet you seem to get orgasmic about meeting sisu puppets...sad really/

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:

Sorry Northern didn't understand

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http://www.warwickshirepgl.org.uk/2012-lodge-chronology/special-meeting-for-guys-cliffe

lifelongcityfan said:

me thinks it is you that is embarrasing... lets not lose sight of the fact that sisu have overseen two relegations, and a third is likely next year. Yet you seem to get orgasmic about meeting sisu puppets...sad really/

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2?? I think it's you that has lost sight... Or the concept of time.

lifelongcityfan said:

me thinks it is you that is embarrasing... lets not lose sight of the fact that sisu have overseen two relegations, and a third is likely next year. Yet you seem to get orgasmic about meeting sisu puppets...sad really/

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So he's orgasmically not telling anyone?

lifelongcityfan said:

me thinks it is you that is embarrasing... lets not lose sight of the fact that sisu have overseen two relegations, and a third is likely next year. Yet you seem to get orgasmic about meeting sisu puppets...sad really/

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Nobody is orgasmic are they? Just full of shit. 2 relegation s?

Deleted member 5849 said:

http://www.warwickshirepgl.org.uk/2012-lodge-chronology/special-meeting-for-guys-cliffe

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He He