budgets dictate finishing position
do they? Its a generalisation, yes they influence position but they don't set it otherwise how did we finish 16th last season
Because we have one of our most successful managers ever.
No its the sisu messaging to lower expectation and then hope to claim over achievement - its a strategy they began in League 2 and its working over and over again
Oh
| 2019/20 season | |||
| Team | Final Position | Turnover | wage spend |
| Derby - not filed | 10 | 0.00m | 0.0m |
| Wigan - not filed | 23 | 0.0m | 0.0m |
| Barnsley | 21 | 14.2m | 11.1m |
| Charlton | 22 | 15.3m | 12.2m |
| Luton | 19 | 14.6m | 14.0m |
| QPR | 13 | 20.7m | 17.4m |
| Hull City | 24 | 15.0m | 17.7m |
| Millwall | 8 | 16.4m | 18.9m |
| Preston NE | 9 | 12.6m | 20.4m |
| Blackburn | 11 | 13.5m | 25.6m |
| Bristol | 12 | 16.2m | 27.3m |
| Huddersfield | 18 | 52.7m | 30.2m |
| Middlesboro | 17 | 19.4m | 30.9m |
| Birmingham | 20 | 22.5m | 32.4m |
| Sheff Weds | 16 | 20.8m | 33.5m |
| Cardiff | 5 | 44.9m | 35.6m |
| Reading | 14 | 18.0m | 37.6m |
| Notts Forest | 7 | 25.7m | 38.1m |
| Swansea | 6 | 49.9m | 40.2m |
| Brentford | 3 | 13.9m | 48.9m |
| Stoke | 15 | 49.8m | 52.7m |
| West Brom | 2 | 53.7m | 66.9m |
| Fulham | 4 | 58.0m | 72.6m |
| Leeds Utd | 1 | 54.2m | 78.3m |
What’s the word you use? Drivel....just admit you hate Robins and want him gone. You are building a case for us to stay in the play off spots so you can accuse him of failing if we finish outside them. It is your playbook for sure.No its the sisu messaging to lower expectation and then hope to claim over achievement - its a strategy they began in League 2 and its working over and over again
Oh
What’s the word you use? Drivel....just admit you hate Robins and want him gone. You are building a case for us to stay in the play off spots so you can accuse him of failing if we finish outside them. It is your playbook for sure.
It’s generally correctIt doesn't though does it? Wycombe were promoted at the same time as us. Ipswich were not.
Barnsley made the play offs last season in the Championship. Clubs such as Ipswich, Wolves and Sheffield United have been relegated from it.
Awful isn’t it? Not a chance of competing if no funding is put in year on year. So few clubs spending less on wages than turnoverChampionship listed from smallest wage bill to highest. Derby & Wigan no accounts flied so who knows
2019/20 season Team Final Position Derby - not filed Wigan - not filed Barnsley Charlton Luton QPR Hull City Millwall Preston NE Blackburn Bristol Huddersfield Middlesboro Birmingham Sheff Weds Cardiff Reading Notts Forest Swansea Brentford Stoke West Brom Fulham Leeds Utd
seems to be that there is a correlation to some degree at either end of the table for relegation and promotion, a bit inconclusive for the rest of it , with teams like Stoke, Millwall, Preston, Birmingham being the exceptions arguably. But teams can buck the trend as we we did last season.
conclusion is its a generalisation not a fact that it is all about the budget..... it is only part of the story for most teams. For most teams success is really just staying in the division, by whatever means they can
Frightening how much is spent in the Championship gambling on promotion. The amount that a lot of teams exceed their turnover in wages on the off chance of promotion should be ringing alarms at FA, EFL etc No wonder teams get in to financial trouble
It’s generally correct
Osb has put a line under this discussion grendelwell in the championship it clearly isn’t really other than the relegated clubs from the premier getting promoted - many clubs now have wage bills which exceed revenue and now can’t buy players. I’m sure technically derby have a larger wage spend than us don’t they?
Either we are fluking wins and we are lucky or we are not. So you think we are fluking wins? I don't think from this position we should finish below 10th especially as under Robins the away form improves as the season progresses - also of course as Pete keeps telling us Seppala is emotionally invested in the club so if we are still in the race in December she will be backing the club with funding to push for promotion
Osb has put a line under this discussion grendel
Yes there seems to be a link at the top and the bottom but not so much in the middle. Have you actually read it?Er have you actually read it? Sheffield Wednesday? Hull? Birmingham? Reading? Stoke?
Yes there seems to be a link at the top and the bottom but not so much in the middle. Have you actually read it?
This does have the same feeling as the Mowbray - Armstrong/Murphy season. I don't think we will have a better chance than this season to push for promotion.
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What I found frustrating last night was certainly the lack of earlier substitutions but also everyone knows how Swansea play ( the gamesmanship linked to high press and workrate) but we still looked to play the same way as always. The opposition playing the way they did cut down space, put pressure on us all over the pitch. Swansea are a decent team with good game management partly based on bending the rules as far as possible. We don't have those sort of players, no one got in the ref and linos ear like the Swansea players. We are too nice and not a little naiive
Leaving aside the first 12 minutes we tried for the next 78 minutes to force the ball based on slow lumbering build up. We were crying out for real pace able to run behind the Swansea defence. We don't have that speed and in some of our players we don't have it mentally either. Am thankful we got some grip to stop it being another Luton but the passing wasn't sharp, too often inaccurate, players disappeared in the game, didn't seem to play or be comfortable in the positions they were supposed to be in.
Swansea caused part of it but I don't think I was surprised by what they did, so you have to assume MR and his team weren't. But we didn't have a plan to deal with it other than play the same way. It didn't work and never really looked like working
The officials added to a frustrating night. They were pretty dire, what was needed was strong officiating but we got errors and acquiescence of gamesmanship. Not good enough but it is becoming a recurring thing in this division.
do they? Its a generalisation, yes they influence position but they don't set it otherwise how did we finish 16th last season
SaturdaySpot on that OSB.
The most frustrating thing for me is the season and game management by Robins.
O Hare , Godden, Gyo all running on empty in the game. Knowing there’s a game on Satdee (& plus the fact MR has mentioned it before in the aftermath of the Preston game) why the hell did he not take them all off at 60 minutes.
Yet he takes off the fittest player on the park who probably won’t play on Satdee!
Couldn’t have taken at least two of them off and saved them for Satdee.
MR has got to start being proactive rather than reactive.
Injuries happen to exhausted players.
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Either we are fluking wins and we are lucky or we are not. So you think we are fluking wins? I don't think from this position we should finish below 10th especially as under Robins the away form improves as the season progresses - also of course as Pete keeps telling us Seppala is emotionally invested in the club so if we are still in the race in December she will be backing the club with funding to push for promotion
We are 4th I expect from where we are to finish in the top 8 without question - it’s a perverse logic to believe a significant form downturn is likely unless there are major injuries
Pretty much year on year that’s exactly what happens apart from with Sunderland
So it’s not what you were saying in that we should be expected to finish above Blackpool and Huddersfield because we finished higher than them last season (because of course that would mean we should finish around 12th to 15th based on last season’s league positions).
What you mean is that it would be a significant downturn if say we dropped 7 to 10 points out the next possible 18 available and never quite recover that back and say finish 11th?
Osb shared someThat all clubs except Sunderland relatively higher revenue equated to a higher Squad/wage expenditure?
I have never seen any conclusive evidence of that anywhere personally.
Which post was that?Osb shared some
Spot on with this.No I’m saying given the composition of the league this season due to COVID impacting many clubs there have been few big signings, clubs stuck with players on huge wages and this is evidenced that many clubs with smaller wage bills are competing on a much more equal basis.
Unless there is a injury crises I can’t see why we would fall away - there’s no logic to it.
Also if the owners are focused on promotion they should provide funds in January as many clubs crippled with operating debt won’t be spending - it’s a unique opportunity before the status quo reverts back again.
Championship listed from smallest wage bill to highest. Derby & Wigan no accounts flied so who knows
2019/20 season Team Final Position Derby - not filed Wigan - not filed Barnsley Charlton Luton QPR Hull City Millwall Preston NE Blackburn Bristol Huddersfield Middlesboro Birmingham Sheff Weds Cardiff Reading Notts Forest Swansea Brentford Stoke West Brom Fulham Leeds Utd
seems to be that there is a correlation to some degree at either end of the table for relegation and promotion, a bit inconclusive for the rest of it , with teams like Stoke, Millwall, Preston, Birmingham being the exceptions arguably. But teams can buck the trend as we we did last season.
conclusion is its a generalisation not a fact that it is all about the budget..... it is only part of the story for most teams. For most teams success is really just staying in the division, by whatever means they can
Frightening how much is spent in the Championship gambling on promotion. The amount that a lot of teams exceed their turnover in wages on the off chance of promotion should be ringing alarms at FA, EFL etc No wonder teams get in to financial trouble
There’s no reason we shouldn’t be top six this season. Just need a couple of reinforcements in Jan.
There’s no reason we shouldn’t be top six this season. Just need a couple of reinforcements in Jan.
Turnover and wage Bill's the last 2 years have fallen off a cliff. Since this figures.
| 2020/21 | 2019/20 | 2018/19 | |
| division | League 1 | Championship | Championship |
| Turnover | 6.8m | 15.1m | 11.1m |
| Player sales | 2.8m | 17.7m | 4.6m |
| Wages | 8.4m | 17.7m | 24.8m |
| Parachute payments | 0.0m | 0.6m | 37.2m |
| Profits/(losses) | (8.1m) | 2.8m | 2.5m |
Such serious cost cutting explains why they're struggling so much this season.only one team has filed their 2020/21 financials. That is Hull
Not easy to tell the covid effect on their financials because they were relegated to L1 in 2019/20 and got promoted 2020/21.
2020/21 2019/20 2018/19 division League 1 Championship Championship Turnover 6.8m 15.1m 11.1m Player sales 2.8m 17.7m 4.6m Wages 8.4m 17.7m 24.8m Parachute payments 0.0m 0.6m 37.2m Profits/(losses) (8.1m) 2.8m 2.5m
Looks like serious cost cutting in League 1. The biggest loss of income from Championship to League 1 was 5m in TV & EFL distributions. They lost around 1.4m in attendance income a drop of 63% in 2020/21 but that directly compares L1 to Championship
Balance sheet 2021 is £22m negative and they owe the owners £40m .
The directors estimate of squad value is £20m but that is not in the figures other than a note in the directors report
2020/21 still managed to pay out 123% of turnover as wages but it was cushioned by the 2.8m profit on player disposals. In these three years they have relied upon major profits on player sales and the owner plus in 2018/19 the parachute payments just to basically stand still. Current form suggests it isnt working and the overall trend is down
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