Fisher On CWR Now (1 Viewer)

i can unserstand his view on it all

rent free wont affect ccfc after admin and then it will be back to square one

if council wont negotiate rent/50% of stadium then sisu cannot move forward without building their own stadium

Hobo said:

All this stadium talk is Sisu rhetoric to try and convince the Football League they have a plan to go forward rather than just fleece us.

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Yeah. Just hope they see through it.

covcity4life said:

i can unserstand his view on it all

rent free wont affect ccfc after admin and then it will be back to square one

if council wont negotiate rent/50% of stadium then sisu cannot move forward without building their own stadium

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SISU cannot move forward. But its not about them.
New Stadium will keep us securely in Division 1 at best and thats not what I want.
SISU will develop the grounds around it to make there money but the club will not progress above SISUs toy.

Have not heard the interview, so can only base thoughts on what is posted as being said. The most startling thing there is the acceptance that the administrator will decide where we play whilst in admin...contrast that with the persistent "The Club is not for sale" stance. In other words - is this now an admission that the Heart of the Club IS for sale? Otherwise, if another bidder gets CCFC Ltd - THEY then decide where Holdings field the players?!
They wouldn't want that, so it suggests that in that scenario it would either be total buy out or lengthy court process for SISU...depending on the size/resource of the other party SISU may yet go quietly.
As far as HMRC...experience tells them that almost all struggling clubs have eventually been found to be owing a wad of cash to the taxman through one guise or another.

Godiva said:

Actually there were some who said they could understand why the club need to have access to all year revenue from the stadium. Quite a few said they would follow to a new stadium if built, but none supported the idea of groundsharing in the interim period.

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I think everyone understands why having full access to revenues is important, that isn't the same though as fans understanding we need a new stadium. Everything we have seen from fisher suggests his plan will reduce total revenue to the club both in the short term (massively) and long term(significantly) so the new stadium is completely detrimental.

The 2 things that any plan should try to maximise is total revenue in for FFP and Total profit (or minimal loss), increasing 1 revenue stream while lowering total revenue in and increasings losses is stupid beyond all belief.

covcity4life said:

i can unserstand his view on it all

rent free wont affect ccfc after admin and then it will be back to square one

if council wont negotiate rent/50% of stadium then sisu cannot move forward without building their own stadium

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ACL are fighting for the lease with 40 odd years left on it. If they have to write that off, they could be in dire straits.

The only way the club continue to play at the Ricoh is if ACL is offered to the club at acceptable conditions. Something like Higgs repaid their investment and ccc hand over their shares and part of the mortgage/loan.

italiahorse said:

SISU cannot move forward. But its not about them.
New Stadium will keep us securely in Division 1 at best and thats not what I want.
SISU will develop the grounds around it to make there money but the club will not progress above SISUs toy.

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this is a business though(liek it or not)

they dont care about whats easiest for fans, only how they themselves can come out of this stronger.

cannot really blame them for that

TF says its not up to him where the team plays its up to the administrator.
Yet he says he has plans to finance and build a new stadium for the team to play in regardless of what the administrator says. (Based on his comment that I don't know what the administrator is selling)
What the f%$£

skybluesam66 said:

what a tosser - he really did not take in one word from the fans forums
Nearly everybody said "we will not follow you out of coventry"
Some said, if you have to move,play at the ricoh in the interim

not one person agreed with moving to somebody else's ground

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It's not the same thing. I understand why Tim Fisher has come up with this plan to move the Football Club (Temporairly) out of the City while we build a new ground it's about sustaining a good business model which currently we are not. The downside to that is that we have to move away for 3 years which no one wants to do and I am sure Tim Fisher does realise this.. Many people during the forums that I have listened to could see why for financial reasons we have to build a new stadium..

Noggin said:

I think everyone understands why having full access to revenues is important, that isn't the same though as fans understanding we need a new stadium. Everything we have seen from fisher suggests his plan will reduce total revenue to the club both in the short term (massively) and long term(significantly) so the new stadium is completely detrimental.

The 2 things that any plan should try to maximise is total revenue in for FFP and Total profit (or minimal loss), increasing 1 revenue stream while lowering total revenue in and increasings losses is stupid beyond all belief.

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I haven't seen their calculations, but I think they have an excel sheet large enough and the professionals to figure out which street is the more beneficial. As long as they keep funding the team to the maximum allowed within the FFP, I really can't argue against moving to a new stadium.

But I can argue against groundshare in the interim! But if ACL current management won't talk to the owners then groundshare is the only way.

If the move happens, as many of us expect if they do retain the football club, next season the FFP would be ok as it's based on this seasons revenue. What's going to happen with FFP in years 2 and 3 of this move? They are going to gamble (subject to winning the club back) on obtaining promotion this year!

One mighty big gamble IMO.

Sub said:

how can it be beneficial to move to another stadium ? you do not solve a 30-70million debt problem buy adding another 30million + to it! that is just madness and to add to that loss of money from fans, ticket sales it does not add up atall !!

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You do if the £30m invested now pays off the £100m debt over 5-10 years

RoboCCFC90 said:

Many people during the forums that I have listened to could see why for financial reasons we have to build a new stadium..

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WE don't need to build a new stadium; SISU do.

We have bidders willing to unite the club with the Ricoh. This is much better than moving to a smaller, crap stadium.

What WE need is SISU to piss off.

Please be careful about this people. SISU may read some of the posts on here and think that people sympathise with them.

I certainly don't. They gambled and lost and have treated all of us like sh1t.

Exactly. The Architect of it all.

Brighton Sky Blue said:

Bryan Richardson should be topping that list.

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kingharvest said:

You do if the £30m invested now pays off the £100m debt over 5-10 years

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Not possible in 40 years

@richh87 said:

So Fisher will be rejecting the offer to play at the Ricoh it seems. I really hope this affects Appleton's decision and if any is needed, a decision from the Football League on where the Golden share should go.

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Do you think he is doing all this on purpose? The more the guy talks, the more he comes over as to be unfit to take over a club. Maybe he wants shut of us and doing everything to put the administrator off SISU

@richh87 said:

WE don't need to build a new stadium; SISU do.

We have bidders willing to unite the club with the Ricoh. This is much better than moving to a smaller, crap stadium.

What WE need is SISU to piss off.

Please be careful about this people. SISU may read some of the posts on here and think that people sympathise with them.

I certainly don't. They gambled and lost and have treated all of us like sh1t.

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They must be getting there stats from here as they certainly didn't get them from the forums.
The principle of getting other incomes is nothing to the loss of spectators envisaged.
The stadium will be just a small concern in a profit making industrial estate, the team will just bounce along (successfully & financially viable) in Division 1/2.

Sub said:

i agree with what you are suggesting KH, but look at the past record over 5 years while SISU have been here 30-70 million debt relegation alienating the fans (main source of income) no sponsors, looks good to get their money back doesn't it ? if your customers dont want to buy the stuff your selling you are just pouring money into a bottomless pit!

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TF talk of not selling as we are at the bottom of the cycle is wrong.
What's spent in the past has gone. Look forward and you will see further losses. Smart businesses will see pulling out now as saving money.

@richh87 said:

WE don't need to build a new stadium; SISU do.

We have bidders willing to unite the club with the Ricoh. This is much better than moving to a smaller, crap stadium.

What WE need is SISU to piss off.

Please be careful about this people. SISU may read some of the posts on here and think that people sympathise with them.

I certainly don't. They gambled and lost and have treated all of us like sh1t.

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I don't disagree with that Rich, I would prefer to stay at the Ricoh Arena myself, but SISU are the owners of Holdings and my gut feeling is that they will be shortly owning Ltd which means they'll be owners of the entire club. While we have bidders for the club unless one is confirmed as the owner we are stuck with what we have and the present moment that is most likely..

pb2875 said:

If the move happens, as many of us expect if they do retain the football club, next season the FFP would be ok as it's based on this seasons revenue. What's going to happen with FFP in years 2 and 3 of this move? They are going to gamble (subject to winning the club back) on obtaining promotion this year!

One mighty big gamble IMO.

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I think somebody should be questioning if this FFP can work!
If its based on last years figures as you say and we may get by in L1 this year but really struggle in L1 next year.
How would it be better if we actually managed to get promoted?
We' d be facing the second year on a tighter sallary cap in a higher division!
I don't think promotion would bring automatic revenue benefits to offset it?

imp:

Godiva said:

I haven't seen their calculations, but I think they have an excel sheet large enough and the professionals to figure out which street is the more beneficial. As long as they keep funding the team to the maximum allowed within the FFP, I really can't argue against moving to a new stadium.

But I can argue against groundshare in the interim! But if ACL current management won't talk to the owners then groundshare is the only way.

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Well their accountants can't produce accurate accounts, there auditors can't audit correctly, they have gone through stupid numbers of directors, the things they say continue to be completely contradictory and they have run up a debt of 70 million, gotten us relegated, have no where to play and almost certain relegation looms again in 2 or 3 years, sounds like we should trust their judgement.

The numbers aren't complex the amount of revenue from food and beverage gained is going to be dwarfed by the drop in crowds thats going to come from the few years away(I'm talking about once we are back). The only way their numbers can work is if we don't get relegated over the next 4 years (which is imo almost certain away from the ricoh) and all the people who don't go while we are away from Coventry come straight back (which is fantasy land thinking) and if we don't get relegated that the crowds while we are struggling compete with what they were when we are doing well (more fantasy land thinking) and that building a new stadium doesn't cost more per year than paying the 400k rent they were offered (which I don't believe for a second)

Fisher has said himself we have some players on 5k per week, that means that if we get 3k crowds next year along with pitiful revenue from shirt sponsorship, little or no corporate etc will have probably the lowest playing budget in the league and we could have a couple of players who don't even make the first team who take up half that budget themselves. we will be fucked. we won't be able to compete with other teams on the same tiny amount of money who aren't hamstrung with a couple of high paid players. We don't know what contracts people have and how long they are but if we have some on 3 years at a 3k+ per week it's very possible (even likely) we could drop down to the conference during years 2,3 and 4 when our ffp revenues are in the toilet. Remember even if we move back for year 4 (which is a target I don't belive they can or will hit) we will have revenues from a couple of thousand fans the previous year to use for the playing budget, there will be no way we will jump back to 10k fans at that point.

RoboCCFC90 said:

It's not the same thing. I understand why Tim Fisher has come up with this plan to move the Football Club (Temporairly) out of the City while we build a new ground it's about sustaining a good business model which currently we are not. The downside to that is that we have to move away for 3 years which no one wants to do and I am sure Tim Fisher does realise this.. Many people during the forums that I have listened to could see why for financial reasons we have to build a new stadium..

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Not true but many people understand why having full access to revenues is important, that isn't the same though as fans understanding we need a new stadium.

FFP rules are here

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html

As they relate to a L1 Club is detailed at the bottom. It seems to say that the FFP is based on monitored budgets in a current season.

Championship teams calculations are on a different basis and the previous years accounts are used as a start point.

If my understanding from that is correct then the player budget for 2013/14 for CCFC would be on the basis of budgets for that season that the FL would monitor and flex the budget. If thats the case ground sharing would seem to indicate a pretty small budget given the number of fans saying they wont go

grego_gee said:

I think somebody should be questioning if this FFP can work!
If its based on last years figures as you say and we may get by in L1 this year but really struggle in L1 next year.
How would it be better if we actually managed to get promoted?
We' d be facing the second year on a tighter sallary cap in a higher division!
I don't think promotion would bring automatic revenue benefits to offset it?

imp:

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Getting promoted next year absolutely would dramatically mitigate the damage done from 3 years away, if we got promoted next year after 3 years of away from home revenue are done I'd expect us to be in league 1, if we don't I expect us to be in league 2 with a very real chance of the conference.

It's however not in the slightest bit realistic to think we will get promoted next year under SISU away playing all games away, It seems like our wage budget is significantly lower than last year. We are under embargo, we have lost multiple players already, the club is in termoil, we haven't seen any success under our current manager. Preparations of the season are massively damaged by what's happening, our ability to attract players will be significantly reduced compared to normal. We shouldn't go down next year but promotion isn't even on the cards.

Sub said:

Fisher : mute point not for SISU or Holdings to decide upto admininstrator to decide if they play at the ricoh
Not happy the ACL offered for team to play for free while in admin, before admin would of been nuts not to accept free rent if offered, bid made by SISU (through different company) not including playing at the Ricoh - CWR ? would you revise bid to include playing at Ricoh ? no we wouldnt looking to build new stadium in coventry area - fans forums - fans understand why we need own stadium for FFP - hammered for saying club needs all its own revenew - suddenly dawned club and stadium need to be one - not changing mind about playing at ricoh - boat has sailed on that one - we will be dragged through the courts and club will suffer. If going through courts we will be ham strung if stuck in admin Good luck to ACL we are moving forward

few bits i could write as i listened was on at about 7.50 am for i player when available

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All I can conclude from reading this is that the man is an idiot.

oldskyblue58 said:

FFP rules are here

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html

As they relate to a L1 Club is detailed at the bottom. It seems to say that the FFP is based on monitored budgets in a current season.

Championship teams calculations are on a different basis and the previous years accounts are used as a start point.

If my understanding from that is correct then the player budget for 2013/14 for CCFC would be on the basis of budgets for that season that the FL would monitor and flex the budget. If thats the case ground sharing would seem to indicate a pretty small budget given the number of fans saying they wont go

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the painful reading there is that fisher was using FFP as an excuse when we were in the championship- sanctions for championship clubs do not come in until 2014/15 however, so he was 3 years early

kingharvest said:

You do if the £30m invested now pays off the £100m debt over 5-10 years

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To pay it back over 20 years we would have to make profit of £5m every year. If anyone thinks the Fish Bowl can achieve that then God help them.

@richh87 said:

WE don't need to build a new stadium; SISU do.

We have bidders willing to unite the club with the Ricoh. This is much better than moving to a smaller, crap stadium.

What WE need is SISU to piss off.

Please be careful about this people. SISU may read some of the posts on here and think that people sympathise with them.

I certainly don't. They gambled and lost and have treated all of us like sh1t.

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bidders are willign to UNITE the club but are the council?????

still nothing to suggest council will definetly offer a sweet deal to new investers for the ricoh.

@richh87 said:

WE don't need to build a new stadium; SISU do.

We have bidders willing to unite the club with the Ricoh. This is much better than moving to a smaller, crap stadium.

What WE need is SISU to piss off.

Please be careful about this people. SISU may read some of the posts on here and think that people sympathise with them.

I certainly don't. They gambled and lost and have treated all of us like sh1t.

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Think that sums it up.

WE don't need a new stadium, Sisu do.

Any other owner will not need a new stadium. It's only Sisu.

What they are creating here is very much an us and them situation and those like myself, who not not been totally anti-Sisu will become so as a result of these actions.

Otis said:

Think that sums it up.

WE don't need a new stadium, Sisu do.

Any other owner will not need a new stadium. It's only Sisu.

What they are creating here is very much an us and them situation and those like myself, who not not been totally anti-Sisu will become so as a result of these actions.

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are you seriously saying sisu and joy should put fan happiness over their business interests?

stop living in faitrytale land otis

oldskyblue58 said:

FFP rules are here

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html

As they relate to a L1 Club is detailed at the bottom. It seems to say that the FFP is based on monitored budgets in a current season.

Championship teams calculations are on a different basis and the previous years accounts are used as a start point.

If my understanding from that is correct then the player budget for 2013/14 for CCFC would be on the basis of budgets for that season that the FL would monitor and flex the budget. If thats the case ground sharing would seem to indicate a pretty small budget given the number of fans saying they wont go

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Thanks ob,
I'm sure you're right.
But it gets forgotton that all of FFP is untried & tested!
Although it tries to prevent the previous unbridled system of billionaires like Obramavics "buying" success, we don't know how well we will like the new system until its been experienced.
It is likely to be dull and lifeless at best and may contain unforseen disasters for promoted or relegated sides.
It is likely to give closer budgets for all teams - and may bring a lot more no score draws!

imp:

Without customers there is no business.

We are the customers.