Fisher on CWR

[Sky Blues]

You misunderstand what I mean Yes spiritual home to the fans

What would fisher know about it. He tried talking as though he was a fan he said personally speaking i think we should never have left HR etc as though he was one of us

He'll be long gone and will pop up some where else spouting the same rubbish.

Expect fisher to be kissing the badge next

I'm sure many of us would jump at the chance of going back to Highfield Road... if it hadn't been sold off, torn down and had houses built on it!
Bringing that up does absolutely nothing to solve Coventry's current problems. Why did he bring it up? Was he trying to suggest the club was magically forced from Highfield Road by an ACL fairy to force it to pay rent for an Arena on the outskirts of town?

 

[kingharvest]

There have been meetings .... the latest of which was Monday.

Yes ACL putting everything down in a letter ........... hell i would too, i would want a factual tangible record of the discussions and what has been offered.

TF seems to imply CCFC are somehow a front line service in Coventry ........... the stakeholders of ACL being the Council and a charity that meets the needs of disadvantaged kids

Wont be bullied but not averse to bullying though

harps back to Highfield Rd ........... its history HR is houses now we need to look forward.

That said in 2007 to 2008 SISU had the opportunity to break the lease, renegotiate the basis or walk away. The messed up big time, didnt do their due diligence properly. In business you pay for your own mistakes, unfortunately sometimes you drag others down with you.

What they pay per match isnt rent........... it is the contriburion to providing services etc at the match, things like staff and food to corporate supporters, the board room, car parking, health and safety cover, match day insurance etc.

I thought the guy doing the interview did pretty well ......... TF didnt like being pressed on things and dodge some straight answers.

Just to be clear there are mistakes on both sides ....... you would expect that its life its business ......... are ACL pushing their own agenda of course they are and they have every right to. BUT what other business would give a creditor 10 months to pay a debt - not many, i would have thought TF is more surprised than disappointed that they have taken action ...... surprised it took so long!

I definitely think CCFC have underestimated ACL in this.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We know for a fact that TF refused the reduced rent offer from ACL.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I dont blame people for wanting the best for the club..... fans see big numbers for rent & debt thrown around and quite rightly say hang on that cant be right, it should cost less, our club is suffering

BUT please bear in mind that each side will put their own spin on it, say things that suits their argument or perhaps not say much at all.

When thinking on that try to remember just how many times in the last 5 years (including the last 12 months) that things have been said and we have been able to prove quite easily that 2 + 2 does not indeed = 6. Then think who has been making most of the statements.

This is not about the rent, this is not about the community in Coventry, it isnt about the fans,.......... it is about money and an exit strategy for a hedge fund who made some poor investment decisions

A wolf in sheeps clothing is still a wolf.

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

I think to sum it up... Both parties have made a right hash of this.

Unfortunately this has turned into a public slanging match.

ACL ultimately can't survive without CCFC and CCFC need the Ricoh as its the only stadium in the city to accommodate the fan base.

 

[DH - Sky Blue]

i would have thought TF is more surprised than disappointed that they have taken action ...... surprised it took so long!

So you mean they expected ACL to take action, and as not paying the rent is deliberate, this suggests they wanted them to take action. Why would this be?

 

[The soothsayer]

Total BS. what is the point now in saying the club should of never left highfield rd.? that gets us nowhere and shows the loser mentality of this clown. Those days have long gone and are not coming back. Instead of blaming everybody else for their fook ups why don't sisu take responsibility for where they have driven the club? Anybody who thinks its right not to honour your financial commitments has no place in business. Any agreements were entered freely by sisu ,they should of taken into account the worse case scernario and factored it in, before making the agreement. Its just bluster, so they can point the finger somewhere else when the shit hits the fan.

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

If I looked at this with a business hat - Sisu want the cheapest deal for CCFC idiot the Ricoh. Acl are in the way - so best thing is to ruin them hoping to get the deal sisu want. It happens all the time in business. Acl is a wounded wolf at the moment on the verge of going under. Sisu will strike when they are on their death bed.

Acl are in big financial difficulties at the moment.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

They're both a bad lot, question is, who do you believe?

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

SISU dont have an endless pot to piss in unfortunately. As OSB so rightly says this is about getting an exit strategy that does not affect the business reputatin and stake holders portfolios. I dont know what is possible from both sides now as they are both playing hard ball. Sisu cant take us away from the Ricoh as their are no grounds big enough in the surrounding area to take the season ticket holders so the butts and ground sharing schemes are out. ACL have a right to demand their money as any of us would if you were owed 1.6 million, SISU dont want to pay as this just exposes them to bigger losses for their clients. OSB is their any scenario in which ACL could force admin and then sell the club on to recoup their debt?

 

[dongonzalos]

A few lines I got down as best I could from Tim Fisher speaking on CWR:

"I've never bowed to threats and will not bow to threats. This has to be resolved and I'm sure it can get resolved."

"It's about a community asset. For ACL to produce an analogy of being a like a house and a tenant is just odd."

"We've said we will not be bullied into a situation where we have no options. You've got to put other options on the table."

"My personal opinion... we should never have left Highfield Road. We need our spiritual home."

"We don't have a home. We don't have a ground. We have an extortionate rent."

"This has been a problem for years and years. It can't go on, this club is being bled to death. This club is spending a fortune."

"We've been very open [with ACL]. We've put in numerous requests for a meeting, but they've been turned down."

"If you describe doing the right thing as playing fast and loose, yes I'm playing fast and loose. This is about making sure the football club pays the right amount of rent."

"The difference between what we are being asked to pay and what we are expected to pay goes to one place, it goes on the pitch."

"We pay £10,000 a match"

"We will do our bit. We've always done out bit. This is a football club. We are football club front and centre in the community."

"The football club comes first. We are not playing fast and loose with the football club. "We are doing the right thing is to negotiate a rent which is competitive in League 1 and get back into the Championship."

Make of that what you will...

He was pressed repeatedly along the lines of "isn't the right thing to do to pay what you owe and then negotiate the rent?"

Blackmail down the community line.

TF you are blackmailing a charity and the council. You don't get anymore community than those two entities.

CCFC has showed very little community spirit slowly destroying our football club.

You will find most fans are not on your side

 

[oldskyblue58]

So you mean they expected ACL to take action, and as not paying the rent is deliberate, this suggests they wanted them to take action. Why would this be?

my guess is that they have used the time to structure things to maximise any benefits. It looks better to fans for starters if ACL take ACL down not TF and SISU. The longer it takes the more financial pressure on ACL, weaker it is the cheaper it is to takeover. As soon as they went into default on the lease they knew ACL would have to take action DH ..... it was just a question of when. They have i would guess arranged things so that if they get their hands on the stadium cheaply they can maximise the profit on its subsequent sale. If they could force ACL into administration then the Council & charity are no longer in control cant insist on seeing CCFC's books or it being viable...... think there are many reasons and some still to come out

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

This is not about the rent, this is not about the community in Coventry, it isnt about the fans,.......... it is about money and an exit strategy for a hedge fund who made some poor investment decisions

A wolf in sheeps clothing is still a wolf.

Surely, we would want SISU to have a share in RICOH, if it's part of their exit strategy, so sceptical, potential buyers would become interested, and SISU sell up?

Genuine question OSB.

 

[dongonzalos]

He's right we should never have left Highfield Road. Moving to the Ricoh was the biggest mistake this club ever made.

Seven years ago, the rent was probably OK while the economy was doing well and fans were turning up. Now in the lower reaches of L1 it is much too much for a club of our size to pay. ACL and the Club need to find an affordable compromise or else ACL will have a bloody big garden lawn to mow.

I take it this had not already happened when SISU took over.

Any other decisions that were wrong that SUSU were fully aware of when they did the deal, he cars to mention. Eric blacks sacking?

 

[covlad1986]

I for one can't stand Sisu but I think they are doing to right thing. How do you expect us to pay £1.28m a year and not get nothing from food, drink, parking where other clubs are paying such lower prices and gets 100% of revenue if we keep going the way we are we will just keep falling.

so my advise would be put your hatred towards sisu behind you for the time being and support what they are trying to do and support you club and like another person said if sisu did go who do we get NO BODY

 

[Sub]

so ACL are owed a hell of alot of money by a secretive hedge fund who nobody knows anything about and they are seen as the bad guys in this? they have not increased the rent all they have done is asked for the agreed rent to be paid. its SISU who got us relegated and did not invest a small amount of money to save us which could of ment more fans turning up better income and more money to pay the rent. They are to blame yes the rent is high but it is alot worse now after we got relegated and the blame for that belongs to our secretive hedge fund owners !!

 

[nuckythompson]

Covlad - one the club have been offered a massive reduction in the rent but turned it down because its not a rent reduction that they are after, its the Arena itself by driving ACL into admin. Secondly the club does get the car park money, the corporates etc - the only thing it doesn't get is the money from the sale of burgers and pies. How many burgers and pies would we all have to eat to plug the £3m hole in the clubs accounts - despite the fact they are paying no rent.

Support the players on a Saturday is vital but don't be fooled by Fisher and SISU into thinking that them getting the Arena wil be good for the club - they are doing it for themselves and not for us the fans.

 

[Tank Top]

Funny how they didn't complain about the rent when we were in tge championship. Pay what you owe or fuck off.

How About...Pay what you owe and Fuck off

 

[torchomatic]

Exactly right. There is spin on both sides, it's not exclusively the fault of ACL and it's not exclusively the fault of the football club. They just need to sort it.

I dont blame people for wanting the best for the club..... fans see big numbers for rent & debt thrown around and quite rightly say hang on that cant be right, it should cost less, our club is suffering

BUT please bear in mind that each side will put their own spin on it, say things that suits their argument or perhaps not say much at all.

When thinking on that try to remember just how many times in the last 5 years (including the last 12 months) that things have been said and we have been able to prove quite easily that 2 + 2 does not indeed = 6. Then think who has been making most of the statements.

This is not about the rent, this is not about the community in Coventry, it isnt about the fans,.......... it is about money and an exit strategy for a hedge fund who made some poor investment decisions

A wolf in sheeps clothing is still a wolf.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Personally i wouldnt want SISU having a share in it. They are playing high stakes poker with our club and the ground and anyone prepared to do that I do not want to own either. Whilst the club will not agree a rent then the value of ACL is forced down. Makes ACL vulnerable but not just to SISU. Whilst CCFC remains financially unviable and bumping around in L1 then to include it in their exit deal actually deflates the stadium value imo.

What I think SISU want to do is not buy 50% but 100% of it. That gets rid of the option held by CCFC for starters and any agreement that only the club can own stadium goes too because SISU would control ACL and CCFC 100%. They would then seperate the two leave the football club to flounder but tied in to a lower rent - only way club breaks even is by dropping wages and performance on pitch suffers. The stadium side of things would be owned probably by SBS&L (you can switch assets around a 100% owned group very easily). Thing about SBS&L is that is where the SISU Fund loans are....... so if the stadium is then sold off at a huge profit their investor loans get repaid........ once that is done they sell off CCFC or let it go bump.

SISU have no allegiance to CCFC only to £'s. Personally I do not want an asset (the stadium) which is a cornerstone to the redevelopment of North Coventry, a large employer, a big contributor to a feel good factor (despite CCFC in the past - this season is at times different), something the city should be proud of in the hands of a hedge fund.

It is a harsh view but perhaps the best thing financially is to let the club go into admin - do a deal at 10p in the pound in a CVA, take 10 point deduction and start again at manageable debt levels with new owners who run the club viably. Once club in administration then SISU have to do a deal because the only other way out of administration is liquidation. Would ACL be open to negotiation on a lower rent, even one charged on attendance - pretty certain they would be

Just a possible scenario SBT but not impossible :thinking about:

 

[stupot07]

Sisu don't owe any rent, the football club does.

 

[torchomatic]

When, if, we get rid of SISU the next lot (as Hoff's were) will just be another lot of faceless investors after a quick return. IN our situation we are either owned by Bad Guy A, B or C.

Personally i wouldnt want SISU having a share in it. They are playing high stakes poker with our club and the ground and anyone prepared to do that I do not want to own either. Whilst the club will not agree a rent then the value of ACL is forced down. Makes ACL vulnerable but not just to SISU. Whilst CCFC remains financially unviable and bumping around in L1 then to include it in their exit deal actually deflates the stadium value imo.

What I think SISU want to do is not buy 50% but 100% of it. That gets rid of the option held by CCFC for starters and any agreement that only the club can own stadium goes too because SISU would control ACL and CCFC 100%. They would then seperate the two leave the football club to flounder but tied in to a lower rent - only way club breaks even is by dropping wages and performance on pitch suffers. The stadium side of things would be owned probably by SBS&L (you can switch assets around a 100% owned group very easily). Thing about SBS&L is that is where the SISU Fund loans are....... so if the stadium is then sold off at a huge profit their investor loans get repaid........ once that is done they sell off CCFC or let it go bump.

SISU have no allegiance to CCFC only to £'s. Personally I do not want an asset (the stadium) which is a cornerstone to the redevelopment of North Coventry, a large employer, a big contributor to a feel good factor (despite CCFC in the past - this season is at times different), something the city should be proud of in the hands of a hedge fund.

It is a harsh view but perhaps the best thing financially is to let the club go into admin - do a deal at 10p in the pound in a CVA, take 10 point deduction and start again at manageable debt levels with new owners who run the club viably. Once club in administration then SISU have to do a deal because the only other way out of administration is liquidation. Would ACL be open to negotiation on a lower rent, even arent charged on attendance - pretty certain they would be

Just a possible scenario SBT but not impossible :thinking about:

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

They're both a bad lot, question is, who do you believe?

The one reliant upon a signed contract?

 

[Bill Glazier]

Any agreements were entered freely by sisu ,they should of taken into account the worse case scernario and factored it in, before making the agreement. Its just bluster, so they can point the finger somewhere else when the shit hits the fan.

Nothing more to be said in my view.

 

[italiahorse]

Why would the club go under?

hahahahahahahahhahhahahhahahahahhahahahhahhaha

Sorry, because no one would be putting any money in.
I can't believe how people would sooner the club fail so they can say it was SISUs fault.

Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[italiahorse]

When, if, we get rid of SISU the next lot (as Hoff's were) will just be another lot of faceless investors after a quick return. IN our situation we are either owned by Bad Guy A, B or C.

Quick return ? Are you real ?

 

[torchomatic]

About as "real" as Hoffman ever taking over.

Quick return ? Are you real ?

 

[italiahorse]

Sisu don't owe any rent, the football club does.

Excellent point. Plus the club can only pay from there income which does not cover the rent once the players have been paid. All the substantial food, drink profits on the day all go into ACL coffers.
Who ever negotiated this rent (before SISU came in) needs bringing to task. I guess they got carried away on the wave of excitement when the stadium was built and Premier League was a foregone conclusion !!!

 

[italiahorse]

About as "real" as Hoffman ever taking over.

Agree with that

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I get that SISU are crooked, don't give a shit about the club, have no morals and are only in it for themselves but at the end of the day if all these shenanigans end up with CCFC paying a more affordable rent package putting us in a better position I won't be moaning. If we carry on the current rent that would be just as bad for the club surely? Paying money we don't have, being forced to cut back wages and sell players to cover it. As a result probably end up languishing in this league or below for many years to come and doing a Luton Town or Plymouth Argyle

I don't think they will let the club go into admin or out of business

I have kept quiet on the whole stadium thing as I don't really fully understand it, but surely if we can negotiate a deal to pay less money out that can only be a good thing. I'm not saying the witholding rent and threatening to leave the Rioch is the right way to go about it but maybe it was the only way it would be dealt with an hopefully brought to closure very soon.

 

[italiahorse]

When, if, we get rid of SISU the next lot (as Hoff's were) will just be another lot of faceless investors after a quick return. IN our situation we are either owned by Bad Guy A, B or C.

I would say it is ego that someone would take over a club. Hoffman would be a hero at the start but the conflict between fans expectations and Hoffman balancing the books would be soon apparent.

 

[valiant15]

Ok gobshite,where's the proof if this club went to administration that there would be nobody willing to take over? Where is the proof?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Excellent point. Plus the club can only pay from there income which does not cover the rent once the players have been paid. All the substantial food, drink profits on the day all go into ACL coffers.
Who ever negotiated this rent (before SISU came in) needs bringing to task. I guess they got carried away on the wave of excitement when the stadium was built and Premier League was a foregone conclusion !!!

Well that's tough. The club is funded by SISU just as any other club relies on its owners to provide the cash-the two main drivers for income (league status and crowd attendance) have fallen under their tenure and the buck lies with them.

 

[valiant15]

Your wasting your time with this idiot.

 

[oldskyblue58]

substantial food and drinks ? Lets take a guess. Average crowd 10k less 1000 corporate = 9k ....average spend per head say £3 = income £27k. Purchases say 40% of sales thats £10800 ....... wages say 10 kiosks 5 people per unit 8 hours each at minimum wages £6 = 2400 ...... Power, insurance, site rent etc per kiosk £500 = 5000 ......... lets say thats a net profit (but doubt it would be this much) = 8800 per match = 220k for the year with 25 games. In the scheme of things not really substantial

Apparently though its killing the club not having it to deduct from its £3m + loss (as given by TF ar fans forum):thinking about: