Fisher on new stadium (8 Viewers)

[italiahorse]

I think you've got to work on the assumption that Wasps are hard-headed businessmen - whether they're effected by the JR or not, the next rental negotiation will be on a strictly commercial basis. If you look at it from their point of view, they've already handled the worst PR going in terms of moving here - they're not going to worry too much about pissing off CCFC fans.

They might be when the 4 years are up but at this moment in time they might feel exposed and would be happy to share the risk.
The trouble is who would trust our idiot owners ?
Particularly as they are dragging everybody into this JR nonsense and talking about a new stadium.
However they would be wise to get the long term sorted out now. Is they want to !!

 

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[stupot07]

They might be when the 4 years are up but at this moment in time they might feel exposed and would be happy to share the risk.
The trouble is who would trust our idiot owners ?
Particularly as they are dragging everybody into this JR nonsense and talking about a new stadium.
However they would be wise to get the long term sorted out now. Is they want to !!

If they wanted to share the risk, they could have let Higgs sell us their 50% share. Higgs turned us down, and we know full well wasps would have veto'd it anyway. They want 100% revenues for their aim of becoming the biggest club in Europe.

A matchday only rental agreement is not sharing the risk.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[italiahorse]

Where did I say we shouldn't pay rent? What I did say was that earning everything from the ground is preferable to earning a fraction of it-surely that can't be disputed? When I eventually move back to England then I can go to the Ricoh. Until then it's Tannadice and Dens Park for me.

Your best for this club is to piggyback off Wasps-that isn't good enough.

So whats your answer FFS ? You seem a little clueless on the matter.
You seem to only offer problems, criticise the only option that seems available to us and offer no solutions.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

If they wanted to share the risk, they could have let Higgs sell us their 50% share. Higgs turned us down, and we know full well wasps would have veto'd it anyway. They want 100% revenues for their aim of becoming the biggest club in Europe.

A matchday only rental agreement is not sharing the risk.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Higgs couldn't sell the share. We've covered this off many, many times

 

[italiahorse]

The plan should be....

Build a stadium on finance
Use the increase in matchday/non matchday revenue to fund a more competitive squad.
Gain promotion to the championship
Find a way to increase revenue streams
Gain (fluke if neccesary) promotion to PL
Stadium finance paid off
Owners (and club) make a fuck load out of TV revenue...
Owners leave


If it was anyone else we would think it's an as sensible plan as we could manage given our situation.

That's not a plan.
The stadium incomes would not finance the loan. The rent would be near a £1M for a start.
Couple this with the drop in support with the location being near but outside Coventry.
There would be little 365 day revenues as there will be no hotel, Casino or Exhibition Halls. Perhaps the odd wedding.
It includes unknown but crucial elements namely gaining promotion and finding unknown revenue streams that do not currently exist.
PL would need stadium increase and financing.
It's bollocks and the sooner we stop playing up to these idiots the better.

 

[steveecov]

Sadly my life expectancy isn't likely to be 130. Give the lads a cheer from me.

 

[Godiva]

That's not a plan.
The stadium incomes would not finance the loan. The rent would be near a £1M for a start.
Couple this with the drop in support with the location being near but outside Coventry.
There would be little 365 day revenues as there will be no hotel, Casino or Exhibition Halls. Perhaps the odd wedding.
It includes unknown but crucial elements namely gaining promotion and finding unknown revenue streams that do not currently exist.
PL would need stadium increase and financing.
It's bollocks and the sooner we stop playing up to these idiots the better.

Slightly contradictory there - but I agree attendances could drop due to new location. I could also go up due to the novelty factor.
If they build a 18.000 seater I don't think they will need to increase capacity if we gets to the PL - they can use the pricing instrument to lower demand to the capacity.

 

[Ian1779]

That's not a plan.
The stadium incomes would not finance the loan. The rent would be near a £1M for a start.
Couple this with the drop in support with the location being near but outside Coventry.
There would be little 365 day revenues as there will be no hotel, Casino or Exhibition Halls. Perhaps the odd wedding.
It includes unknown but crucial elements namely gaining promotion and finding unknown revenue streams that do not currently exist.
PL would need stadium increase and financing.
It's bollocks and the sooner we stop playing up to these idiots the better.

If it was someone other than SISU proposing that plan people would be dribbling over it.

 

[italiahorse]

Slightly contradictory there - but I agree attendances could drop due to new location. I could also go up due to the novelty factor.
If they build a 18.000 seater I don't think they will need to increase capacity if we gets to the PL - they can use the pricing instrument to lower demand to the capacity.

So charge more to put fans off?

 

[Godiva]

So charge more to put fans off?

They lower prices by 'special offers' to increase demand. Surely they can raise prices to decrease demand ... or optimize revenue?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

That's not a plan.
The stadium incomes would not finance the loan. The rent would be near a £1M for a start.
Couple this with the drop in support with the location being near but outside Coventry.
There would be little 365 day revenues as there will be no hotel, Casino or Exhibition Halls. Perhaps the odd wedding.
It includes unknown but crucial elements namely gaining promotion and finding unknown revenue streams that do not currently exist.
PL would need stadium increase and financing.
It's bollocks and the sooner we stop playing up to these idiots the better.

tbf you don't have a plan either, the best I've seen you offer is get promoted from league one and then ride the momentum with 30k attendances and get promoted into the premier league.

There would be no drop in support if the location is reasonable, the only ones who wouldn't go are those currently not going anyway. Even then they would be back at the first sniff of success.

 

[steveecov]

T O T B A

Would relegation not extinguish forever all talk of new stadium?

 

[LB87ccfc]

tbf you don't have a plan either, the best I've seen you offer is get promoted from league one and then ride the momentum with 30k attendances and get promoted into the premier league.

There would be no drop in support if the location is reasonable, the only ones who wouldn't go are those currently not going anyway. Even then they would be back at the first sniff of success.

They have already stated in their fantasy that the cuckoo land would be outside the city boundaries, therefore it would be lucky to get anywhere near what we get now.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

They have already stated in their fantasy that the cuckoo land would be outside the city boundaries, therefore it would be lucky to get anywhere near what we get now.

I disagree, but then who knows with our supporters.

 

[rondog1973]

If it was someone other than SISU proposing that plan people would be dribbling over it.

No they wouldn't.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

They lower prices by 'special offers' to increase demand. Surely they can raise prices to decrease demand ... or optimize revenue?

That was Mittel and Briatore's plan for QPR

 

[Deleted member 5849]

T O T B A

Would relegation not extinguish forever all talk of new stadium?

Make it more likely, surely, as youi could build a smaller one!

 

[steveecov]

Stubbornness Is Sinking Us

 

[shmmeee]

Where did I say we shouldn't pay rent? What I did say was that earning everything from the ground is preferable to earning a fraction of it-surely that can't be disputed? When I eventually move back to England then I can go to the Ricoh. Until then it's Tannadice and Dens Park for me.

Your best for this club is to piggyback off Wasps-that isn't good enough.

Just to be a pedant. I can dispute that. 100% of not much can be less than a fraction of lots.

 

[shmmeee]

If it was someone other than SISU proposing that plan people would be dribbling over it.

That plan has more holes than Oscar Pitourius' bathroom door.

I'll keep asking the same question from the start of this: what actual figures do you expect? It's easy to go "revenues" and hope for the best, but seriously how much cash do you think we'll make? How much more would we have to spend on players after rent?

Personally until I see even fag packet figures its pie in the sky.

If it was that easy to increase revenue every club in the league would be doing it. There must be a reason they're not. And if they are it won't give us a competitive advantage as claimed.

 

[Grendel]

That plan has more holes than Oscar Pitourius' bathroom door.

I'll keep asking the same question from the start of this: what actual figures do you expect? It's easy to go "revenues" and hope for the best, but seriously how much cash do you think we'll make? How much more would we have to spend on players after rent?

Personally until I see even fag packet figures its pie in the sky.

If it was that easy to increase revenue every club in the league would be doing it. There must be a reason they're not. And if they are it won't give us a competitive advantage as claimed.

Every other club is doing it - that's the problem.

 

[shmmeee]

Every other club is doing it - that's the problem.

Great. What sort of revenue increase can we expect?

 

[Grendel]

Great. What sort of revenue increase can we expect?

Double I would guess - the real key is the championship level - we were one of the lowest revenues on our relegation season yet had above average crowds.

The formula you suggest would mean top half championship football would be impossible and a new investor interested in buying a football club not even having us on the consideration list.

 

[steveecov]

Because we can't get big TV revenue, we have to rely on crowd, merchandising, advertising and SPONSORSHIP.

As long as SISU are here, nobody wants to get involved.

 

[duffer]

They might be when the 4 years are up but at this moment in time they might feel exposed and would be happy to share the risk.
The trouble is who would trust our idiot owners ?
Particularly as they are dragging everybody into this JR nonsense and talking about a new stadium.
However they would be wise to get the long term sorted out now. Is they want to !!

The problem is that Wasps can't share the risks without sharing the rewards - and the evidence suggests that they need all the rewards for their operation (which loses 4m operationally p.a., currently).

It's also not entirely clear what the reward is - which I think is probably key to SISU's thinking too. In other words, how much money does ACL really make from F&B given the contract with Compass?

Put yourself in Wasps position. As Wasps owner why would I want to offer CCFC anything? All I need from them is the rent. If they're not here, all I lose is that, and maybe a bit of F & B on matchdays. I can probably make some of that back through other sources (per ACL last year). The only negotiation I can see is how much rent Wasps will charge, and how much of a cut of the matchday income will be handed over.

Conversely SISU are probably thinking that the Wasps operation is at risk, and if it fails CCFC is quids in. The last thing they'll want to do is buy into ACL and support it against that failure. Additionally, given how bullish Wasps are now, it could actually be that they will be feeling more exposed in a few years, and there's a better deal to be had then.

It's very hard to make a case, financially, for the new stadium. But to me at least, it's not too hard to see why there's not much urgency towards a long-term deal with Wasps either.

 

[Grendel]

Because we can't get big TV revenue, we have to rely on crowd, merchandising, advertising and SPONSORSHIP.

As long as SISU are here, nobody wants to get involved.

Yeah bit like no one would apply for the job when Pressley was sacked.

 

[shmmeee]

Double I would guess - the real key is the championship level - we were one of the lowest revenues on our relegation season yet had above average crowds.

The formula you suggest would mean top half championship football would be impossible and a new investor interested in buying a football club not even having us on the consideration list.

Where did I suggest a formula?

I've said all along if a new stadium will work lets do it. Just yet to be convinced it'll work yet.

Double commercial revenues? Or Double the turnover?

 

[Grendel]

Where did I suggest a formula?

Double commercial revenues? Or Double the turnover?

The evidence of our championship season suggests doubling turnover at that level - it's not a difficult formula. Owning parking and f and b rights would gain an increase in match days alone. Bottom line is if you get 23 days of revenue of match tickets only or 365 days of everything it's obvious who is going to do better.

 

[torchomatic]

Shame we won't be around in 2265 for when the lease expires.

Sadly my life expectancy isn't likely to be 130. Give the lads a cheer from me.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

The evidence of our championship season suggests doubling turnover at that level - it's not a difficult formula. Owning parking and f and b rights would gain an increase in match days alone. Bottom line is if you get 23 days of revenue of match tickets only or 365 days of everything it's obvious who is going to do better.

Just leave it, for some bizarre reason a section of our fans are wholeheartedly against us making extra revenue. They must enjoy us being shit, or don't want Wasps to lose out on revenue or something else.

 

[dongonzalos]

I still reckon that even if SISU left tomorrow then any new owner would see the need to leave the Ricoh and have our own place. Or, as Duffer said on another thread, wait for Wasps to fail. Preferable option for me.

Nah they would just be sensible and do a deal with Wasps. Hopefully not having all that luggage would allow them to be trusted

 

[torchomatic]

Some do have a bizarre attitude, I must say.

Just leave it, for some bizarre reason a section of our fans are wholeheartedly against us making extra revenue. They must enjoy us being shit, or don't want Wasps to lose out on revenue or something else.

 

[shmmeee]

The evidence of our championship season suggests doubling turnover at that level - it's not a difficult formula. Owning parking and f and b rights would gain an increase in match days alone. Bottom line is if you get 23 days of revenue of match tickets only or 365 days of everything it's obvious who is going to do better.

So we'd be looking at a turnover of @£6m based on the last accounts, possibly a bit more as we were at Sixfields.

Still a bit sketchy on what exactly "everything" will entail. Will go looking for some case studies. Cheers.

 

[torchomatic]

Ah, it's easy to just "do a deal with Wasps" then, is it? They'll be quite happy to give away their revenues will they? They're loss making (yes, they are MMM), their crowds are falling and they have a big loan to pay back. I wouldn't hold my breath over a deal with Wasps.

Nah they would just be sensible and do a deal with Wasps. Hopefully not having all that luggage would allow them to be trusted

 

[Kingokings204]

But the fact is the facts and figures don't add up with ccfc involved in a scrap for league 1 status.

Sorry this is all pointless talk but im sure we can carry on chatting on.

Lets entertain the idea for a second and the stadium could of been half built by now if they actually had a business plan and investment surely?

I believe we would all get behind the idea regardless of sisu in charge or not so I don't buy that and the clubs boundaries matter as outside of Coventry will lose automatically 80% fan base already proved with sixfields. Doesn't matter whether its 3 miles outside Coventry or 34 in Northampton the principal is the same. No?

What I don't get it why cant we continue to rent at a steal of 100k PA with certain incomes for the time being and making friends with everyone and seeing where we are. The reason we are fighting relegation in league 1 is not because we are renting instead of owning.