Football league admit incompetance!!! (1 Viewer)

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P

pricey

New Member
Flip me this gets more and more complicated doesn't it?!

Thanks to OSB for shining some light in with those questions.

I guess what matters is whether there is a party involved that is willing to tenaciously pursue 'justice' here or not. If no one shouts about it there are enough people involved desperately wanting to sweep it under the carpet to make exactly that happen.
 
The Penguin

The Penguin

Well-Known Member
Fedupskybluesfan said:
You are correct, but just to throw another one in the pot. As Holdings was and is the original company could it be that when they dropped out of the premier league the FL placed the GS in the wrong company as the PL share would of been with holdings as Ltd did not exist until 1995. Just a question???
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That has been mooted on here as a possibility before. It's certainly plausible.

It still doesn't explain why our accounts have been....inaccurate since 1995.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
Hobo said:
I have written to the Football League on two occasions asking when the players registrations were transferred along with other issues. I have received fob off automated replies.

This morning Clarke in a public statement said it would be interesting but not altered the situation.

However at the point I requested this information I pointed out it could be proof SISU acted unlawfully in the administration process or the Football Leagues Administrative procedures were not fit for purpose!

They are now admitting mistakes.
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Yes FL are admitting mistakes, but they have not said player contracts had been transferred!

So maybe sisu/TF actually never did transfer or move assets from limited to Holdings. Maybe only new players were registered in Holdings? I think I remember there were a tiny sum listed in limited as player or staff contracts, and I assumed those would be the players on old - long - contracts like McSheff and Bell.
 
F

Fedupskybluesfan

New Member
I agree, but this is before SISU, and as they have already stated they would welcome an investigation back to 1995. Either way someone is making it very muddy.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
If you have written to FL and not received a reply within 28 days you can make a formal complaint under there customer charter
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
Dhinsa's_Millions said:
I think the transfer was Fisher, Dulieu and co. (SISU) Who else did it? The fact is the league allowed it to happen! SISU don't get off the hook because it was allowed to happen.
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From the way article is worded, you could be forgiven for thinking that the errors were with the Football League and not any former or present CEO of CCFC.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
señor Santiago said:
so the football made mistakes, but coventry city had points deducted.
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The latest point reduction was due to ACL not signing the CVA.
But it is interesting we got off with only minus 10 and not minus 15 as seem to be the going rate. That could be FL indirectly admitting their mistake.
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
Fedupskybluesfan said:
You are correct, but just to throw another one in the pot. As Holdings was and is the original company could it be that when they dropped out of the premier league the FL placed the GS in the wrong company as the PL share would of been with holdings as Ltd did not exist until 1995. Just a question???
Click to expand...

To be very honest fedupskybluefan I couldn't answer this the whole GS issue confuses me, the man to ask would be OSB58 I am pretty sure if anyone can provide an answer this would be your man.
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
If you have written to FL and not received a reply within 28 days you can make a formal complaint under there customer charter
Click to expand...

Fedupskybluesfan said:
You are correct, but just to throw another one in the pot. As Holdings was and is the original company could it be that when they dropped out of the premier league the FL placed the GS in the wrong company as the PL share would of been with holdings as Ltd did not exist until 1995. Just a question???
Click to expand...

OSB is there any way you can help with this question, my mind is just spinning at the moment.
 
Hobo

Hobo

Well-Known Member
The point is Godiva under company law during administration or just before you cannot put things in place at the detriment to potential bidders(where players registration were fully or partially), it is illegal. the Football League should be able to answer this, unless of course they are too embarrassed too.

Also Otium were put forward as the "preferred" bidder by the admininstrator there were further courses of legal procedure available. One being their viability as owners according to Football League rules.

also why haven't Otium had to pay their bond up front, Farnborough had too?
 
SkyBlue76

SkyBlue76

New Member
Godiva said:
Yes FL are admitting mistakes, but they have not said player contracts had been transferred!

So maybe sisu/TF actually never did transfer or move assets from limited to Holdings. Maybe only new players were registered in Holdings? I think I remember there were a tiny sum listed in limited as player or staff contracts, and I assumed those would be the players on old - long - contracts like McSheff and Bell.
Click to expand...

Does that really make any difference? The player registrations were all in LTD in 2011, so if SISU deliberately started putting contracts into Holdings after that point (which by FL admission no other club has done) isn't this a sign that they were taking a deliberate action to split the company to protect itself if it went into administration - isn't this still asset stripping?
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
the player contracts were taken out in CCFC H, TF confirmed this in March....... the registrations(at least some) were in CCFC Ltd - there was some registrations listed in the administrators initial report £466k. I suspect new contracts were completed in August 2011 when there was the hoohar following relegation about bonuses. The £466K i suspect related to contracts/registrations that ended in june 2013 so have no current value

Contracts and registrations have to be filed at FL ....... and they should be in the same company as the golden share because no other company is a member of the FL
 
AFCCOVENTRY

AFCCOVENTRY

Well-Known Member
ACL statement :

An ACL spokesman said: “The Football League’s admission that it has made serious errors in the administration of Coventry City Football Club is a crucial development in this saga.

“That is what all the publicly available documentation makes clear – from the 2008 board minutes that recently came to light right through to the last set of filed accounts in 2012. It is also what the Football League’s own regulations say should be the case.

“It is therefore deeply disappointing that they have waited until now – with the administration process almost over – to make this admission.

"But fortunately there is still time to resolve this matter. The joint administrators have not yet liquidated the club so there is still time for a proper administration process to be run – one based on all the facts – that provides a fair outcome for creditors, for prospective purchasers of the club, and most of all for Sky Blues fans themselves.”
 
AFCCOVENTRY

AFCCOVENTRY

Well-Known Member
Looks as of the whole admin process can be re-run knowing players contracts are in LtD.

Enter Haskell and Byng again!
 
Hobo

Hobo

Well-Known Member
It's not asset stripping it is potentially illegal in company law to put mechanisms in place to the detriment of potential bidders.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Fedupskybluesfan said:
You are correct, but just to throw another one in the pot. As Holdings was and is the original company could it be that when they dropped out of the premier league the FL placed the GS in the wrong company as the PL share would of been with holdings as Ltd did not exist until 1995. Just a question???
Click to expand...

Firstly when the original company was split it was done with written approval from the FA and FL. In which case everyone knew where the share and it was in CCFC Ltd. When they got relegated it would have been CCFC Ltd that exchanged the share with I think Fulham as they went up. In 2008 when SISU took over there are Board minutes stating they knew where the share was in CCFC ltd. The FL have also confirmed that in March 2013 the share resided in CCFC Ltd until they took it back. Dont think there was any real confusion
 
SkyBlue76

SkyBlue76

New Member
Hobo said:
It's not asset stripping it is potentially illegal in company law to put mechanisms in place to the detriment of potential bidders.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Hobo.

This has to be challenged. Hope the latest ACL statement is true, that there is still time to complete the administration based on all the facts.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
SkyBlue76 said:
Does that really make any difference? The player registrations were all in LTD in 2011, so if SISU deliberately started putting contracts into Holdings after that point (which by FL admission no other club has done) isn't this a sign that they were taking a deliberate action to split the company to protect itself if it went into administration - isn't this still asset stripping?
Click to expand...

I don't know ... it's very complicated. If the golden share was actually given to holdings, then moving the players to holdings could be seen as an attempt to comply with FL regulations?
 
D

Dhinsa's_Millions

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
the player contracts were taken out in CCFC H, TF confirmed this in March....... the registrations(at least some) were in CCFC Ltd - there was some registrations listed in the administrators initial report £466k. I suspect new contracts were completed in August 2011 when there was the hoohar following relegation about bonuses. The £466K i suspect related to contracts/registrations that ended in june 2013 so have no current value

Contracts and registrations have to be filed at FL ....... and they should be in the same company as the golden share because no other company is a member of the FL
Click to expand...

How they have been allowed to cover this up for as long as they have even when people were asking valid questions months ago is staggering.

Way before this there were questions asked of Dulieu in relation to the reason Otium existed in the first place and it was 'normal business practice'. They seem to have had this creative accountancy planned all along.
 
AFCCOVENTRY

AFCCOVENTRY

Well-Known Member
FURTHER UPDATE: ACL renews appeal to League to refer complaint to FA, & seeks to revert liquidation process which saw 10pt deduction
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
AFCCOVENTRY said:
ACL statement :

An ACL spokesman said: “The Football League’s admission that it has made serious errors in the administration of Coventry City Football Club is a crucial development in this saga.

“That is what all the publicly available documentation makes clear – from the 2008 board minutes that recently came to light right through to the last set of filed accounts in 2012. It is also what the Football League’s own regulations say should be the case.

“It is therefore deeply disappointing that they have waited until now – with the administration process almost over – to make this admission.

"But fortunately there is still time to resolve this matter. The joint administrators have not yet liquidated the club so there is still time for a proper administration process to be run – one based on all the facts – that provides a fair outcome for creditors, for prospective purchasers of the club, and most of all for Sky Blues fans themselves.”
Click to expand...

Is this possible?

Of course we would all like to see a fair Administration process.

If so one request from me, please don't appoint Paul Appleton.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
Firstly when the original company was split it was done with written approval from the FA and FL. In which case everyone knew where the share and it was in CCFC Ltd. When they got relegated it would have been CCFC Ltd that exchanged the share with I think Fulham as they went up. In 2008 when SISU took over there are Board minutes stating they knew where the share was in CCFC ltd. The FL have also confirmed that in March 2013 the share resided in CCFC Ltd until they took it back. Dont think there was any real confusion
Click to expand...

Will this all surface during the liquidators investigations, or does it require a special investigation?
 
T

theferret

Well-Known Member
SkyBlue76 said:
Thanks, Hobo.

This has to be challenged. Hope the latest ACL statement is true, that there is still time to complete the administration based on all the facts.
Click to expand...

Isn't it all academic though? Would any of the other bidders really have been in a position to offer a better deal to creditors than SISU/Otium - regardless of what assets were in Ltd?

I suspect not, although we cannot know for sure, so an interesting development, albeit one that makes the whole situation even messier.
 
SkyBlue76

SkyBlue76

New Member
AFCCOVENTRY said:
FURTHER UPDATE: ACL renews appeal to League to refer complaint to FA, & seeks to revert liquidation process which saw 10pt deduction
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I'm kicking myself for getting my hopes up again. But SURELY this has to go above the FL now. They have admitted making mistakes, mistakes that have impacted on the fairness of the administration process. Yet they wait MONTHS before admitting it, until it is nearly too late to rectify. This has GOT to go higher than the FL. They clearly are not competent enough to handle this situation.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Godiva said:
Will this all surface during the liquidators investigations, or does it require a special investigation?
Click to expand...

It should already be known by the administrator Godiva - but his angle is that it is all to do with beneficial ownership which quite frankly is tosh in my opinion
 
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