The Lurker
Well-Known Member
Well that's 2 games called off now. Ridiculous. No smoke without fire
Sport and politics don't mix. The reason why tonight's game should be played is to show that sport encompasses all and is above things like violence and hatred. Not at all happy with this faux sympathy and singing the French national anthem. Respect the anthem, a minutes silence yes, but no more. I swear some of these journalists would like to let them win too, although with England they probably don't need to worry about that.
Sport and politics don't mix. The reason why tonight's game should be played is to show that sport encompasses all and is above things like violence and hatred. Not at all happy with this faux sympathy and singing the French national anthem. Respect the anthem, a minutes silence yes, but no more. I swear some of these journalists would like to let them win too, although with England they probably don't need to worry about that.
I am not sure if I was there I could sing another national anthem and pretend to be French. It seems a bit fake, the same as when people rushed out to buy the magazine when the other attack happened because it was "the thing" to do and weren't bothered about it before or since.
Yes, show respect but no need to go too far about it.
People wanting to sacrifice living in freedom for maybe living in freedom. Strange world.
They probably aren't because we have people shouting just let them in else they will die.
If anybody in the world is arrested for serious crimes (probably all crime) then their dna and prints should be taken as standard and on a database.
He may not have had a history, but it does show the checks aren't tight enough if people are using fake papers to get through. They obviously see it as easy.
So Germany's game was cancelled due to explosives found. The enemy are everywhere and sports getting targeted
Virtually every viewpoint I can relate to but there is always a "but" in my head
Just a footnote about controls. The guy from Montenegro with a car full of weapons on his way to Paris was a grape picker heavily in debt and no known connections to islamists. Drinker ( beer ) and gambler. Absolutely unknown and wouldn't normally set off an alert. Probably offered the chance to clear his debts by driving to Paris in a rented car due to be given back a week later. Poor guy. An offer he should have refused.
Parlez-vous sarcasm ?
Poor Guy?
What?
He's driven 750 miles in a car full of machine guns and grenades with a Paris address in his Sat Nav and you feel sorry for him.
What on earth do you imagine he thought the weapons would be used for?
Ah, of course. He didn't know what was in the car did he.
Why do you continually seek to apologise for these scumbags?
Life imprisonment for the poor chap.
Next.
I am really afraid, that we again (!) are missing the point to stop IS, just focusing on blind revenge actions.
Almost every middle east expert or so-called middle east expert claims the importance of putting pressure on Saudi Arabia and other countries to stop them from delivering weapons and ammo to the terrorist. Plus they thrive on and live of the torn Iraq and the conflict between Shiites and Sunnis, which should be solved somehow ASAP.
Nothing is being done on these problems. Just bombing alone will not lead anywhere, probably will just make more people towards the IS
Plus another interesting theory I read yesterdays was, that by attacks like Paris the IS wants European people turn on the muslims in general, making them supporting ISIS / turning them towards ISIS.
If this is true, that might work.
Exactly. They ( ISIS and other radicals ) like playing the victim role. It wins them sympathy and followers.
I am really afraid, that we again (!) are missing the point to stop IS, just focusing on blind revenge actions.
Almost every middle east expert or so-called middle east expert claims the importance of putting pressure on Saudi Arabia and other countries to stop them from delivering weapons and ammo to the terrorist. Plus they thrive on and live of the torn Iraq and the conflict between Shiites and Sunnis, which should be solved somehow ASAP.
Nothing is being done on these problems. Just bombing alone will not lead anywhere, probably will just make more people towards the IS
Plus another interesting theory I read yesterdays was, that by attacks like Paris the IS wants European people turn on the muslims in general, making them supporting ISIS / turning them towards ISIS.
If this is true, that might work.
And where are Saudi Arabia getting these weapons that they are selling to ISIS? From the UK weapons industry. Cameron even goes and visits the likes of King Abdullah on trade missions to persuade them to spend more!
View attachment 4812
We also happily sell to the likes of UAE, Egypt, Oman and Bahrain. Not to mention entertaining the likes of India's Modi, China's Jinping and Egypt's Sisi.
Our foreign policy is all over the place. We can't even seem to decide whose side we're on these days. We put someone into power then when it doesn't work out support whoever is trying to overthrow them. Of course ISIS are evil but there is an element of creating our own problem here with constant interference. We supported the Arab Spring uprisings but can't deal with the outcome in Syria.
If you look back at what actually happened its not hard to see how it ended up a total mess. Assad's regime came under attack from rebels as part of the Arab Spring supported by the West. Extremists then joined the rebels, some of which Assad released from prison himself. Iran supports Assad, sending in Hezbollah. The Gulf States supports rebels sending arms via Turkey & Jordan.
Basically ended up with Sunni's supporting rebels and Shia's supporting Assad. Then the CIA decides to train and equip the rebels as they want Assad removed.
With the country in a mess it was the opening for ISIS. They split from Al Qaeda and enter the civil war but they don't fight Assad or the Syrian rebels they fight the Kurds and start working towards Iran. The Pentagon then trains rebels fighting ISIS rather than Assad as they are now a bigger threat. Turkey starts bombing the Kurds in Iraq but doesn't bomb ISIS. The whole thing then threatens to escalate massively when Russia backs Assad and bombs anti-Assad rebels.
Its a total mess and one we should never have got involved in to start off with. The problem you have now is its so complex its hard to see where the solution lies. Bombing isn't the answer. The more the West does that the more traction ISIS gets in the region. Usually you would say nothing can be resolved until people get round the table and start talking. Sure we say we don't talk with terrorists but history tells you otherwise, just look at Ireland. However now you have a group in ISIS that are so out there in their beliefs it will be near impossible to reach any sort of agreement even if we did talk to them.
And where are Saudi Arabia getting these weapons that they are selling to ISIS? From the UK weapons industry. Cameron even goes and visits the likes of King Abdullah on trade missions to persuade them to spend more!
View attachment 4812
We also happily sell to the likes of UAE, Egypt, Oman and Bahrain. Not to mention entertaining the likes of India's Modi, China's Jinping and Egypt's Sisi.
Our foreign policy is all over the place. We can't even seem to decide whose side we're on these days. We put someone into power then when it doesn't work out support whoever is trying to overthrow them. Of course ISIS are evil but there is an element of creating our own problem here with constant interference. We supported the Arab Spring uprisings but can't deal with the outcome in Syria.
If you look back at what actually happened its not hard to see how it ended up a total mess. Assad's regime came under attack from rebels as part of the Arab Spring supported by the West. Extremists then joined the rebels, some of which Assad released from prison himself. Iran supports Assad, sending in Hezbollah. The Gulf States supports rebels sending arms via Turkey & Jordan.
Basically ended up with Sunni's supporting rebels and Shia's supporting Assad. Then the CIA decides to train and equip the rebels as they want Assad removed.
With the country in a mess it was the opening for ISIS. They split from Al Qaeda and enter the civil war but they don't fight Assad or the Syrian rebels they fight the Kurds and start working towards Iran. The Pentagon then trains rebels fighting ISIS rather than Assad as they are now a bigger threat. Turkey starts bombing the Kurds in Iraq but doesn't bomb ISIS. The whole thing then threatens to escalate massively when Russia backs Assad and bombs anti-Assad rebels.
Its a total mess and one we should never have got involved in to start off with. The problem you have now is its so complex its hard to see where the solution lies. Bombing isn't the answer. The more the West does that the more traction ISIS gets in the region. Usually you would say nothing can be resolved until people get round the table and start talking. Sure we say we don't talk with terrorists but history tells you otherwise, just look at Ireland. However now you have a group in ISIS that are so out there in their beliefs it will be near impossible to reach any sort of agreement even if we did talk to them.
I am really afraid, that we again (!) are missing the point to stop IS, just focusing on blind revenge actions.
Almost every middle east expert or so-called middle east expert claims the importance of putting pressure on Saudi Arabia and other countries to stop them from delivering weapons and ammo to the terrorist. Plus they thrive on and live of the torn Iraq and the conflict between Shiites and Sunnis, which should be solved somehow ASAP.
Nothing is being done on these problems. Just bombing alone will not lead anywhere, probably will just make more people towards the IS
Plus another interesting theory I read yesterdays was, that by attacks like Paris the IS wants European peopleturn on the muslims in general, making them supporting ISIS / turning them towards ISIS.
If this is true, that might work.
Who are the beneficiaries: The Saudis seem ok, and the arms sales don't seem to have been hindered it seems
As I said earlier I am torn with all this. So given the previous posts portraying us as the bad guys, do we sit back and soak it up until these people exact their revenge for our misdemeanours and hope that we change our foreign policy to give us a more popular image in the world. The long term goal being we are no longer targets?
It isn't about being the bad guys, it is just a need to understand the bigger issues - the political history. Maybe the answers lie their? Revenge bombing and "we are good, they are bad" gets no-one anywhere
As I said earlier I am torn with all this. So given the previous posts portraying us as the bad guys, do we sit back and soak it up until these people exact their revenge for our misdemeanours and hope that we change our foreign policy to give us a more popular image in the world. The long term goal being we are no longer targets?
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