Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
FWIW I think the winners of this election are fucked next time rounds. Whoever it is will be dealing with the brexit shit storm and whatever the outcome of that there are going to be people less than pleased.
Because we are only allowed to have a go at anyone but Labour. Yet the Labour leader has a very dodgy past that many would like to disappear. Yet if you have a go at anyone else it gets ignored.This shitty little thing is still going on? The NHS is about to be sold and you're arguing about who said what 30 years ago. Come on lads
I fully agree. And on top of that they seem clueless on how to take us forward.FWIW I think the winners of this election are fucked next time rounds. Whoever it is will be dealing with the brexit shit storm and whatever the outcome of that there are going to be people less than pleased.
This shitty little thing is still going on? The NHS is about to be sold and you're arguing about who said what 30 years ago. Come on lads
This shitty little thing is still going on? The NHS is about to be sold and you're arguing about who said what 30 years ago. Come on lads
I think they should make voting compulsory and introduce a none of the above option.I fully agree. And on top of that they seem clueless on how to take us forward.
If only there could be one more box to put your cross in which is for none of those named. And if that got the most votes new leaders had to be put forward.
Would 'selling the NHS' as you put it be as bad as you think. Personally I think that its such a bloated, oversized mess that whatever amount of money thrown at it would just disappear. Money isn't the answer to sorting it. Restructuring it properly is.
I fully agree. And on top of that they seem clueless on how to take us forward.
If only there could be one more box to put your cross in which is for none of those named. And if that got the most votes new leaders had to be put forward.
Which is why I won't vote Tory.Thing is Astute as much as we dislike it this is essentially a two party system unless you live in Scotland or NI. The Conservatives have pledged to give me real terms pay cuts and make my job considerably harder. If I want any chance of that not happening I have to vote for the alternative.
Ed Miliband didn't offer one last time, there is one this time.
What a load of bullshit. Where have I said vote Tory? What I have said is both are not worthy of our vote.It's happened. I think Grendull and Astute have convinced be to switch my vote from Tory to Labour.
When those that shout the loudest can only come up with a misunderstood smear campaign as an argument to why you shouldn't vote for said party instead of arguing the manifestos you have to question why. So I've read and reread both Tory and labour manifestos numerous times now and while both have have details I like and dislike when I read the manifestos in isolation ignoring the colour of the party and on balance the Tory one is just so negative and based on fear whereas the labour one is positive and based on hope.
I think it was Barack Obama who said in his first election campaign that do you want to vote for a president who panders to your fears or a president who panders to your dreams, or words to that effect. And I'm finding myself drawn to that notion.
Which is why I won't vote Tory.
Or we have Corbyn who tries to say that his involvement with the IRA was as a part of the peace agreement. But those involved in the peace agreement say he wasn't involved. Two others high up in the Labour party were also involved. And as you say we are more or less a two party country.
Because we are only allowed to have a go at anyone but Labour. Yet the Labour leader has a very dodgy past that many would like to disappear. Yet if you have a go at anyone else it gets ignored.
Bloated oversized mess that is struggling to keep up with demand for its services. The bloat is in the masses of commissioners that the Tories created in order to bring competition into the health service. Money and restructuring is the answer to solving it, 51% of NHS Trusts having a combined deficit £750m will not be solved by a bit of restructuring. It's solved by properly funding it, enabling restructure. I daresay it might even be worth the short term pain of trying to settle some of the PFI contracts with additional money now in order to make the service more sustainable in the longer term.Would 'selling the NHS' as you put it be as bad as you think. Personally I think that its such a bloated, oversized mess that whatever amount of money thrown at it would just disappear. Money isn't the answer to sorting it. Restructuring it properly is.
I understand why you would vote Labour. Unless you are rich or pretend to be the Tories are not for you. If you have a job which is paid by the government then anyone but the Tories are better for you.If you think he was that ingratiated with them file a police complaint. I'm just explaining a large part of the reasons for my vote are for the man's ideas, not the individual.
The best way to not resolve a conflict of any sort is to deny all responsibility oneself, & take sides by condemning the actions of a specific party in the conflict.One quote after being pushed for it. But would never condemn the IRA.
It is shocking how so many don't even have doubts about him.
OK Corbyn is innocent of all charges. He would make a great PM. I hope you get what you are after and that it doesn't go badly wrong. I wish I could have the same confidence.ridiculous statement. It's because we are living with a current terrorist threat, who are committing atrocities on our street, and have a PM who is cosying up to their main sponsor and flogging them arms - can you not see which is the bigger danger?
I understand why you would vote Labour. Unless you are rich or pretend to be the Tories are not for you. If you have a job which is paid by the government then anyone but the Tories are better for you.
OK Corbyn is innocent of all charges. He would make a great PM. I hope you get what you are after and that it doesn't go badly wrong. I wish I could have the same confidence.
I am leaving this thread now. You can all agree with each other how badly he has been treated.
How the NHS wastes £7.6bn a year | Daily Mail OnlineBloated oversized mess that is struggling to keep up with demand for its services. The bloat is in the masses of commissioners that the Tories created in order to bring competition into the health service. Money and restructuring is the answer to solving it, 51% of NHS Trusts having a combined deficit £750m will not be solved by a bit of restructuring. It's solved by properly funding it, enabling restructure. I daresay it might even be worth the short term pain of trying to settle some of the PFI contracts with additional money now in order to make the service more sustainable in the longer term.
OK Corbyn is innocent of all charges. He would make a great PM. I hope you get what you are after and that it doesn't go badly wrong. I wish I could have the same confidence.
I am leaving this thread now. You can all agree with each other how badly he has been treated.
YES. .Any reason for this to be wrong?
How the NHS wastes £7.6bn a year | Daily Mail Online
I know its from the mail but there were others (guardian included) which showed a similar vein(if you pardon the pun). Its just too big to be managed properly in my view. Too many places or chains for people to hide and not take responsibility for actions, collection of fees for treating foreign patients is a prime one.
Tory bingo
daily mail quote
defend defunding of NHS
Try to pass blame to foreigners
you nearly had a full house but you didn't mention benefits, unlucky.
What a load of bullshit. Where have I said vote Tory? What I have said is both are not worthy of our vote.
The funny thing about the election is that Corbyn has actually performed rather well.
He seems far more engaged and more engaging. His public speaking and passion for his subject matter have all been at a far better level than anyone would have predicted.
His crowds have been fixed as is the way but even it's clearly been a surprise.
How the NHS wastes £7.6bn a year | Daily Mail Online
I know its from the mail but there were others (guardian included) which showed a similar vein(if you pardon the pun). Its just too big to be managed properly in my view. Too many places or chains for people to hide and not take responsibility for actions, collection of fees for treating foreign patients is a prime one.
Read the post before you jump down anyone's throat screaming Daily Mail, Daily Mail. There were similar stories in the guardian which you can see if you calm down dear.
As we're playing idiot bingo...
seven and three NHS hospitals to charge overseas patients for non-urgent care
on its own NHS wastes over £2bn a year on unnecessary or expensive treatments
The funny thing about the election is that Corbyn has actually performed rather well.
He seems far more engaged and more engaging. His public speaking and passion for his subject matter have all been at a far better level than anyone would have predicted.
His crowds have been fixed as is the way but even it's clearly been a surprise.
He was the same in the leadership contests. Against the robotic Andy Burnham, the pseudo Tory Liz Kendall and the vague platitudes of Yvette Cooper his passion stood out. It is just a shame he is doing it only now and not over the dispatch box against a wavering PM.
Strange how he seemed so weak and reticent over Brexit.
Why was that?
Strange how he seemed so weak and reticent over Brexit.
Why was that?
And yet when they were initiating the deepest cuts to Social care, public services and welfareamazing that this tax changes and changes to the corporation tax come under so much scrutiny but we're all supposed to accept that cuts to vital services are a necessary evil and we shouldn't question them too much.
Class sizes rising to 35-40, fine.
Loss of 20,000 police officers, fine.
Implementation of the Naylor report, fine.
Rise in corporation tax, changes to private school tax exemption, right wing melt down.
We're slowly becoming an apartheid state, but segregation will be based on wealth rather than race. Some people will be happy to sit in their gated communities counting their money, they were in South Africa, and to a lesser extent, they are in the States but that's not the sort of society I want to live in. Where poor people are denied health care and education and are suppose to be grateful to their overlords for a zero hour contract with no workers rights.
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