General Election (4 Viewers)

rob9872 · Jun 12, 2017

Surely with less people entering the country we don't need as many nurses police teachers etc.

What we need to do is up skill people and improve pay and conditions so that those low paid jobs are still seen as a step up from the dole queue. Unfortunately dome of the lazy Brits would rather sit on their arse. We need to have an exchange to swap a foreign nuse for dome one sat on the dole queue for 10 years. Anyone on more than 5 years in this climate of full employment has no excuse.

martcov · Jun 12, 2017

Sky Blue Pete said:
No excuse for violently murdering, torturing and terrorising other human beings surely

No, but the reasoning for both sides carrying out atrocities was the same. Which is why we should not be dependent on either side.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 12, 2017

rob9872 said:
Surely with less people entering the country we don't need as many nurses police teachers etc.

What we need to do is up skill people and improve pay and conditions so that those low paid jobs are still seen as a step up from the dole queue. Unfortunately dome of the lazy Brits would rather sit on their arse. We need to have an exchange to swap a foreign nuse for dome one sat on the dole queue for 10 years. Anyone on more than 5 years in this climate of full employment has no excuse.

I'd be all for paying more taxes to improve training.

Hell, we could even encourage training and investment in skills with a policy such as scrapping tuition fees...

skybluetony176 · Jun 12, 2017

Sick Boy said:
How would you define the Norway option? Even before the referendum leave politicians were claiming that no one was talking about threatening the country's place in the single market.

The Norway option was even how Farage was selling leaving the EU when he first came to prominence and what Boris was selling in his Times column the Monday after the referendum and we new we'd voted out.

martcov · Jun 12, 2017

rob9872 said:
Surely with less people entering the country we don't need as many nurses police teachers etc.

What we need to do is up skill people and improve pay and conditions so that those low paid jobs are still seen as a step up from the dole queue. Unfortunately dome of the lazy Brits would rather sit on their arse. We need to have an exchange to swap a foreign nuse for dome one sat on the dole queue for 10 years. Anyone on more than 5 years in this climate of full employment has no excuse.

Depends on the terror or crime situation whether we need more police or not. We need more nurses because of the aging population and we need more teachers to educate our population- never can be enough teachers.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 12, 2017

Otis said:
Chaos?

It's all about the hardness.

As hard as a rock.

martcov · Jun 12, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
The Norway option was even how Farage was selling leaving the EU when he first came to prominence and what Boris was selling in his Times column the Monday after the referendum and we new we'd voted out.

Norway is oil rich and has a low population. A poor comparison before we even get into the details.

martcov · Jun 12, 2017

rob9872 said:
That response is so insulting. If you turned that argument to the Asian population in England you'd be called racist and rightly so. The ones being targeted weren't the settlers but generations beyond. You talk about indigenous in the way I'd expect nigel Farage to and I'd bet a pound to a pinch of shit that you hate him. Usual double standards to suit your argument.

Except the Asian population don't control the industry and have all the power. The N.I. Protestants were targeting the natives and although the worst crimes were committed long ago on our behalf, the settlers did use their position of power to their advantage. A totally different situation to immigrants coming as "underdogs". The settlers were backed by people like Elisabeth and Cromwell. They received or paid for stolen land. I hope that we have moved on on both sides and that whatever happens in the future it is motivated by mutual consent for the benefit of everyone in N.I..

The cessation of terrorism was a model for the world and a source of hope. Now that we have the DUP in the government and are wanting to do away with some "human rights" we could see the whole thing fall apart again.

All this started with the granting of a referendum and the rise of populism led by ambitious right wing politicians backed by the gutter press. The repercussions were never calculated or possibly are not even cared about as we drift leaderless into negotiations caused by a self inflicted crisis.

I doubt anyone considered the DUP being in government and the possible effects on Northern Ireland Peace.

rob9872 · Jun 12, 2017

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'd be all for paying more taxes to improve training.

Hell, we could even encourage training and investment in skills with a policy such as scrapping tuition fees...

I'd be all for scrapping tuition fees IF they pass the degree. Not a free ride to party and be lata bouts for 3 years or eg leave after 2 and get a job. Enough scroungers in the country already.

rob9872 · Jun 12, 2017

martcov said:
Except the Asian population don't control the industry and have all the power. The N.I. Protestants were targeting the natives and although the worst crimes were committed long ago on our behalf, the settlers did use their position of power to their advantage. A totally different situation to immigrants coming as "underdogs". The settlers were backed by people like Elisabeth and Cromwell. They received or paid for stolen land. I hope that we have moved on on both sides and that whatever happens in the future it is motivated by mutual consent for the benefit of everyone in N.I..

The cessation of terrorism was a model for the world and a source of hope. Now that we have the DUP in the government and are wanting to do away with some "human rights" we could see the whole thing fall apart again.

All this started with the granting of a referendum and the rise of populism led by ambitious right wing politicians backed by the gutter press. The repercussions were never calculated or possibly are not even cared about as we drift leaderless into negotiations caused by a self inflicted crisis.

I doubt anyone considered the DUP being in government and the possible effects on Northern Ireland Peace.

Are you really excusing terrorism in the 1970s based on Cromwell in the 1500s? Christ let's go back and blame the Romans or even the cave men!

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 12, 2017

rob9872 said:
I'd be all for scrapping tuition fees IF they pass the degree. Not a free ride to party and be lata bouts for 3 years or eg leave after 2 and get a job. Enough scroungers in the country already.

Can run with that.

martcov · Jun 12, 2017

rob9872 said:
Are you really excusing terrorism in the 1970s based on Cromwell in the 1500s? Christ let's go back and blame the Romans or even the cave men!

I am not excusing terrorism. I said I hoped we have all moved on and that the cessation of terrorism is a model for the world. It is a historical fact that Ireland was badly done by in history and that people see that as justification for a continued struggle. I think that we have come a long way towards accepting British ( aristocracy and ruler ) guilt and both the Queen and Prince Charles have apologised for wrongs committed.

If it goes wrong because we withdraw from European courts or involve one side of the terror war in our government then I will blame the present and not Cromwell or Elisabeth or George or William...

skybluetony176 · Jun 12, 2017

EU nurse applicants drop by 96% since Brexit vote - BBC News

Just saying

SkyblueBazza · Jun 12, 2017

martcov said:
Except. The fear of losing jobs to foreign workers is a bit exaggerated and applies only to certain areas- not to all branches. The NHS still needs workers and farms still need workers - there is still demand although there are foreigners. The market is not flooded.

How many benefit people blame it on the foreigners? How many low skilled and poorly educated people blame it on the foreigners? I can believe that some are unfairly affected by competition, but from what I have experienced here the jobs where most low paid foreigners work are the jobs that the natives don't consider good jobs or simply prefer not to do.

When my niece complained that her foreman was Polish and earned more than her, I pointed out that she was living in a country that spoke her mother tongue and that she had had a free education which she had not used. It was not the Polish guy's fault that she was a packer on a conveyor belt. There are many leavers who think like her which is a pity.

That's than point really. Cheap labour from abroad only serves the cheap labour (although as they soon realize - not particularly well as they end up living in very similar conditions just in a foreign land - which is perhaps more benevolent than that they are used to), & the wealthy, whoever & wherever they be, who invested in the firms these people work for.

If the NHS was able to pay a more reasonable wage to the nurses etc instead of the managers it seems to have as many of AS the nurses, the carpenters etc paid a decent going rate for their skills...more of those on benefits would take up the training to become one, more of those kids in schools would be inspired to become one. Instead they all aim to be celebrity status & 99% never get anywhere near it!

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fernandopartridge · Jun 12, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
EU nurse applicants drop by 96% since Brexit vote - BBC News

Just saying

Wouldn't be an issue if the useless Tories created a flood of nursing training places, but their cut at all costs mantra can't do it. I hope to God there is another election so they can be banished for good.

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chiefdave · Jun 12, 2017

fernandopartridge said:
Wouldn't be an issue if the useless Tories created a flood of nursing training places, but their cut at all costs mantra can't do it. I hope to God there is another election so they can be banished for good.

So virtually wiped out applications from overseas and at the same time you have record numbers leaving and a drop in people going into the profession thanks to increased fees and the removal of bursaries. The only people benefiting here, surprise surprise, are the private agencies that cover the shortfall with expensive temps.

skybluetony176 · Jun 12, 2017

fernandopartridge said:
Wouldn't be an issue if the useless Tories created a flood of nursing training places, but their cut at all costs mantra can't do it. I hope to God there is another election so they can be banished for good.

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If there was a flood of Nurse training places would there be a flood of applicants to fill them?

chiefdave · Jun 12, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
If there was a flood of Nurse training places would there be a flood of applicants to fill them?

Yes, in the old system the number of places funded was directly linked to the number of new employees required every year and it was, according to UCAS, the most popular course to apply for. Since the bursaries have been removed and fees introduced applications have already fallen by over 20%.

fernandopartridge · Jun 12, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
If there was a flood of Nurse training places would there be a flood of applicants to fill them?

Yes. UCAS reckon nursing courses were nearly 3 times over subscribed!

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Kingokings204 · Jun 13, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
EU nurse applicants drop by 96% since Brexit vote - BBC News

Just saying

That isn't the brexit vote that's the working conditions and pay they receive. It's horrible and the aim is to pay them more and make working conditions better. It's more a Tory government than the brexit vote surely?

Sick Boy · Jun 13, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
That isn't the brexit vote that's the working conditions and pay they receive. It's horrible and the aim is to pay them more and make working conditions better. It's more a Tory government than the brexit vote surely?

Can assure you that NHS workers from the EU are most certainly leaving due to Brexit. Funnily enough they no longer feel welcome.

Astute · Jun 13, 2017

rob9872 said:
I'd be all for scrapping tuition fees IF they pass the degree. Not a free ride to party and be lata bouts for 3 years or eg leave after 2 and get a job. Enough scroungers in the country already.

I look at it slightly differently. If the taxpayer is to pay I would like the taxpayer to benefit. So anyone wanting to study for a position working for the state should get it for free. And in return something like 5 years work minimum or you still have to pay.

Astute · Jun 13, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Can assure you that NHS workers from the EU are most certainly leaving due to Brexit. Funnily enough they no longer feel welcome.

NHS workers are leaving wherever they were born. They are undervalued and over stressed.

Sick Boy · Jun 13, 2017

Astute said:
NHS workers are leaving wherever they were born. They are undervalued and over stressed.

Yes that as well. My missus is a band 6 midwife here, works 12 hour shifts and unsociable hours, yet is only paid the average wage.

However, her main reason for why she will be handing in her notice shortly is due to Brexit, as it has also been the main reason for her colleagues from the EU doing so.

Astute · Jun 13, 2017

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'd be all for paying more taxes to improve training.

Hell, we could even encourage training and investment in skills with a policy such as scrapping tuition fees...

So how would extra tax be paid and by whom?

Over half the households in the UK claim more in benefits than they pay in tax. So if they paid more in tax they would just get it back in extra benefits. So you might as well aim at the better off. The top 20% earners pay close to 45% of tax payable. How high should rhis go?

Astute · Jun 13, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Yes that as well. My missus is a band 6 midwife here, works 12 hour shifts and unsociable hours, yet is only paid the average wage.

However, her main reason for why she will be handing in her notice shortly is due to Brexit, as it has also been the main reason for her colleagues from the EU doing so.

If they were paid what their true value is and were treated better they would stay. Those I know from the EU are worried about the future. But they are not leaving.

Kingokings204 · Jun 13, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Can assure you that NHS workers from the EU are most certainly leaving due to Brexit. Funnily enough they no longer feel welcome.

So nothing to do with a Tory government cutting pay packets and increasing work loads and stress?

Sick Boy · Jun 13, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
So nothing to do with a Tory government cutting pay packets and increasing work loads and stress?

The devalution of the £ won't have helped, neither will have the sense of hostility created by certain sections of the media and the Tories' claims of EU citizens being bargaining chips.

Astute · Jun 13, 2017

Sick Boy said:
The devalution of the £ won't have helped, neither will have the sense of hostility created by certain sections of the media and the Tories' claims of EU citizens being bargaining chips.

It is easy to think of things not helping. Try thinking of anything that is helping. I can't think of anything ATM.

Sick Boy · Jun 13, 2017

Astute said:
It is easy to think of things not helping. Try thinking of anything that is helping. I can't think of anything ATM.

I agree with you, the current state of the NHS is a disgrace. I tore my ligaments playing football a few weeks ago and yhe doctor I saw was ranting and raving about it t me. She had to walk across the hospital to get a print out for me as due to budgets there wasn't one in A&E for her to use for patients.

Kingokings204 · Jun 13, 2017

Sick Boy said:
The devalution of the £ won't have helped, neither will have the sense of hostility created by certain sections of the media and the Tories' claims of EU citizens being bargaining chips.

I do agree but the eu are using British citizens as the same. Worth noting.

skybluetony176 · Jun 13, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
That isn't the brexit vote that's the working conditions and pay they receive. It's horrible and the aim is to pay them more and make working conditions better. It's more a Tory government than the brexit vote surely?

Wouldn't they have came here as economic migrants in the first place? Have pay and conditions in this country deteriorated that badly that remaining in their home country is a better option?

skybluetony176 · Jun 13, 2017

Sick Boy said:
The devalution of the £ won't have helped, neither will have the sense of hostility created by certain sections of the media and the Tories' claims of EU citizens being bargaining chips.

Hadn't considered the devaluation of the pound as a factor. Which of course wasn't a brexit effect it was a natural repositioning of the value of the pound which was overvalued, either that or it's temporary and it will all be back to normal in a couple of months and you'll get the same amount of euros to the pound to spend in Benidorm as you did pre-brexit. It's just a load of scare mongering from me reading the fake news press

SIR ERNIE · Jun 13, 2017

Astute said:
If they were paid what their true value is and were treated better they would stay. Those I know from the EU are worried about the future. But they are not leaving.

That's correct. They're concerned about their post Brexit future but as we know that's because Merkel and Tusk last year refused to discuss this with the PM.

The few that are leaving are doing so not because they 'feel unwelcome' but because sterling has fallen 20% in the last two years against the euro so their pay is less attractive.

Kingokings204 · Jun 13, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Wouldn't they have came here as economic migrants in the first place? Have pay and conditions in this country deteriorated that badly that remaining in their home country is a better option?

They wouldn't remain at home Tony. They would go to Germany or another EU country with free movement and better pay. Germany have a good system I believe.

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