Nick
Administrator
But calling a white person Casper, does that make it OK to reference the darkness of somebody's skin?
Obviously, between mates is completely different when giving each other shit.
Nah you’ve got completely the wrong end of the stick here.
Gammon a) doesn’t apply to all white people and b) is about a complexion you get from a lifestyle not a race you are born with.
It’s like calling Trump an umpa lumpa isn’t racist. Or my very pale mate Casper isn’t racist. Or calling someone “freckles” isn’t racist. They aren’t races.
It's entirely to do with race, because it is white people turning read.
This is the thing, you can't have "everything is racist" in one direction and "it's nothing to do with race" when the coin is flipped.
Of course it is to do with race.
Nah you’ve got completely the wrong end of the stick here.
Gammon a) doesn’t apply to all white people and b) is about a complexion you get from a lifestyle not a race you are born with.
It’s like calling Trump an umpa lumpa isn’t racist. Or my very pale mate Casper isn’t racist. Or calling someone “freckles” isn’t racist. They aren’t races.
Do you think it was about race when a Cov fan called him a black prick after the area final? Akinfenwa didn't use the best example with this whole buffalo thing and I think he said in his statement he himself didn't know if it was said with racist intent. I think he was just trying to make a stand. The guy I'm sure has suffered enough racist abuse over the years to be vocal about it.This is exactly spot on. Same with Akinfenwa. When he says it it's not about race but when someone else does we will decide for them that they are racist.
There are some right idiots on this thread.
I'm not being funny, but a water buffalo isn't a race either.
It can't be one rule for one and one for another.
Do you think it was about race when a Cov fan called him a black prick after the area final? Akinfenwa didn't use the best example with this whole buffalo thing and I think he said in his statement he himself didn't know if it was said with racist intent. I think he was just trying to make a stand. The guy I'm sure has suffered enough racist abuse over the years to be vocal about it.
It's not. Water buffalo is an insult based on being black. All black people are black. Not all white people are Gammons. It's more like 'chav' or Karen in that it refers to an attitude mostly found in one race, but I could see an asian or black person being called a gammon if they displayed the same attitudes (though honestly not sure I've ever seen a black gammon, maybe a certain type of old asian man?)
I'd argue that 'roadman' isn't racist, even though it generally refers to black people.
Kind of getting into that Bernardo Silva/Mendy territory when Silva sent the image of the black kid cartoon and said it looked like him and got charged for racism by the FA. I don't personally think that was an act of racism by Silva. Context is important, shouting out something about the appearance of some randomers skin, black, white or other is not ok in my view.But calling a white person Casper, does that make it OK to reference the darkness of somebody's skin?
Obviously, between mates is completely different when giving each other shit.
Kind of getting into that Bernardo Silva/Mendy territory when Silva sent the image of the black kid cartoon and said it looked like him and got charged for racism by the FA. I don't personally think that was an act of racism by Silva. Context is important, shouting out something about the appearance of some randomers skin, black, white or other is not ok in my view.
Yeah, I don't disagree with you on that particularly. I think he was trying to make a stand with something that can be interpreted in different ways but he was doing it because of the backdrop of BLM and I think he had good intentions but it wasn't really the best example. It doesn't mean he hasn't suffered really bad racist discrimination in the past and because of that he probably feels there was some racist motivation behind the buffalo thing.That's the thing, point out the actual racism.
Don't go to town about something that he didn't even hear that may not have been racist that he had pretty much called himself. It just covers up the actual racism doesn't it?
It's not. Water buffalo is an insult based on being black. All black people are black. Not all white people are Gammons. It's more like 'chav' or Karen in that it refers to an attitude mostly found in one race, but I could see an asian or black person being called a gammon if they displayed the same attitudes (though honestly not sure I've ever seen a black gammon, maybe a certain type of old asian man?)
I'd argue that 'roadman' isn't racist, even though it generally refers to black people.
Yeah, I don't disagree with you on that particularly. I think he was trying to make a stand with something that can be interpreted in different ways but he was doing it because of the backdrop of BLM and I think he had good intentions but it wasn't really the best example. It doesn't mean he hasn't suffered really bad racist discrimination in the past and because of that he probably feels there was some racist motivation behind the buffalo thing.
I doubt Andi Peters would be compared to a water buffalo
I think Silva tweeted it though and someone is gonna see it and get offended. The world has changed in that sense. You need a pretty good filter to pick out the weirdos and wronguns nowadays.Yeah exactly, you have explained it better than I could have.
Not everything is instantly racist all of the time but some people want to make it about that. That then dilutes the actual racism that obviously does occur.
If everybody starts trying to go down rabbitholes for an hour on why something is racist and have to have some random tedious link then it just may be that it's not being racist.
Yeah, he mentioned a really bad time he suffered when playing in Lithuania. Should've probably spoke about that.He would have been better off just talking about his experiences though? Like Robbie Earle did.
Yeah, he mentioned a really bad time he suffered when playing in Lithuania. Should've probably spoke about that.
Do you think it was about race when a Cov fan called him a black prick after the area final? Akinfenwa didn't use the best example with this whole buffalo thing and I think he said in his statement he himself didn't know if it was said with racist intent. I think he was just trying to make a stand. The guy I'm sure has suffered enough racist abuse over the years to be vocal about it.
no I don’t think so, a gammon (at least to my understanding) is more generally prejudiced about most things- climate change, sexual orientation, the indisputable greatness of Britain, obsessed with the war even though none of them lifted a finger, dislike of immigrants and distrust of foreigners, often daily mail/ express readers, pro brexit, generally 50 plus- look at CVDs avatar and you’ll see plenty of ‘em
you wouldn’t immediately call someone a gammon if they were a racist, you’d call them a racist- a gammon wants to go back to the good old days of the Empire and hates anything which even mildly disputes their way of viewing the world, which is based on how things used to be & incredibly insular.
I don’t use the word any more as obviously it was offending a few people
It's definitely not racist to say you can't imagine it. That is what I recognise though as my white privilege i.e. the ability to go and play football in eastern europe and not suffer racist abuse. Of course the fact I was shit at football meant that was never a possibility. That doesn't equate to saying white people should feel guilty. Not all white people are racist or responsible for it. As I get older I feel more responsible for calling it out. Football to an extent has done that, my lads team is half white half black or mixed race. We had one really talented black player, the amount of shit that lad got from opposition coaches was ridiculous. At under 8s. He is a big lad for his age, so most of the time it was stuff like 'he must be about 14' but to see the genuine bitterness and anger from some of the guys it genuinely broke my heart, fucking 7 year old kids trying to have fun playing football. We have a white lad who is a similar size who has never had those comments. Am I making some assumptions? Yes. I'd love to be wrong. Luckily/unluckily for us the lad is now in Villa's academy so hopefully in a more professional environment he can just play and learn without getting shit from wankers at the weekend.Fucking hell yeah, I am probably being racist by saying I can't imagine Lithuania being a great place for things like that years ago.
It's the powerful shit like that which will get people thinking.
it's not a comment on white people, it's a comment on a certain type of person, same as Karen.
It's not a trope that tarnishes the whole race, blacks are lazy, Jews control the banks etc.
Same as I wouldn't say roadman is racist as relates to a certain sort of person who is usually black but not everyone who is black.
Skin which changes due to absurdly angry reactions. It’s nothing to do with race. I can’t understand how this needs explaining.
It's not random shit though is it? It's just one example of some of the racist shit he's suffered in the past. I think, he has used a bad example to make the point with the buffalo shit, I've already explained that.Why is it always that when the argument has been lost that some random shit gets thrown in? Yes, calling him a black prick is racist, but that has nothing to do with the water buffalo analogy, or anything to do with the general argument that it's one rule for one and one for another.
It is most definitely linked to race - it specifically denotes pink skin going red on the outside. That's why gammon is used, not say beef or lamb which is darker.
tbf, if I called someone gammon then, if they hadn't been insulting me initially and they asked me to stop, I would.It is most definitely linked to race - it specifically denotes pink skin going red on the outside. That's why gammon is used, not say beef or lamb which is darker.
It's not random shit though is it? It's just one example of some of the racist shit he's suffered in the past. I think, he has used a bad example to make the point with the buffalo shit, I've already explained that.
It's not. Water buffalo is an insult based on being black. All black people are black. Not all white people are Gammons. It's more like 'chav' or Karen in that it refers to an attitude mostly found in one race, but I could see an asian or black person being called a gammon if they displayed the same attitudes (though honestly not sure I've ever seen a black gammon, maybe a certain type of old asian man?)
I'd argue that 'roadman' isn't racist, even though it generally refers to black people.
Yeah, I remember an Asian friend of mine coming back from the bar furious, because somebody had said something he took offence at. Me and his other mate calmed him down, pointing out it was a minority, and that most people didn't care what colour he was, don't let it get to him etc.As I get older I feel more responsible for calling it out.
Personally I think the buffalo was based on size, not its colour. Same as being referred to as an ox.
Reverts back to the simple thing. It may not have been intended as racist, it turned out to be seen as racist, there are obvious reasons why it could be construed as racist... what kind of attitude is it, at that point, to silence the black man and put him back in his box, denying it's racist?!?Personally I think the buffalo was based on size, not its colour. Same as being referred to as an ox.
I doubt Andi Peters would be compared to a water buffalo
Personally I think the buffalo was based on size, not its colour. Same as being referred to as an ox.
Reverts back to the simple thing. It may not have been intended as racist, it turned out to be seen as racist, there are obvious reasons why it could be construed as racist... what kind of attitude is it, at that point, to silence the black man and put him back in his box, denying it's racist?!?
it's not racist, same as snowflake isn't. It's about attitude.
You could have identical twins with different political outlooks and one could be a gammon and one could be a snowflake.
Have you head a black right winger called gammon?
It is mainly a political right/left thing, but it then specifically targets the white right wingers. It definitely has racial connotations - why use gammon otherwise? It was chosen specifically because of the colour of the meat. Which is pink.
Yes it was. Still not racism.Have you head a black right winger called gammon?
It is mainly a political right/left thing, but it then specifically targets the white right wingers. It definitely has racial connotations - why use gammon otherwise? It was chosen specifically because of the colour of the meat. Which is pink.
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