George Floyd (3 Viewers)

[Skybluefaz]

One thing this has reminded me off, is in New York there is a street scam that relies heavily on Racism.

Basically, a large group of Black men/lads walk up to you and say "Shake a black man's hand".

It's obvious they are trying to earn money from something (this occasion it was "selling" their CD's, so it puts you in a position of if you say "No, not interested" will they attack you verbally calling you racist etc or do you just hand over some change straight away?

Be interested to hear people's thoughts on things like this?

"Things like this?" Crime you mean? The perpetrators should be dealt with in accordance with the law. If it carries a heavier punishment because they were trying to imply a racist angle then fair enough but I have no clue on law to that level. What are your thoughts?

 

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[Nick]

I think the racist coppers murdering people because of the colour of their skin is more of a problem, plus wider spread systemic racism and people who refuse to accept their own privilege are more of an issue if I'm honest.

It won't be eradicated when people won't / can't discuss things without throwing stuff like "their own privilege" about.

It needs honest discussions, while nobody wants to say "That man was a c**t" if they were black and would rather say "The police chose him because of his skin colour" then things won't get sorted.

 

[clint van damme]

It won't be eradicated when people won't / can't discuss things without throwing stuff like "their own privilege" about.

It needs honest discussions, while nobody wants to say "That man was a c**t" if they were black and would rather say "The police chose him because of his skin colour" then things won't get sorted.

there was a black fella on 5live the other day who started a business doing some sort of diversity training and he does a lot of work with the MET.
He said a lot of MET recruits come from areas where there are no black communities and the recruits very much buy in to the racist tropes.
These recruits do racial profile, the MET acknowledge it hence their attempts to try and change it.
His company also does work trying to turn the lives of troubled youngsters round, (both black and white). I can't remember the day it was on but it would be worth tracking down he was a very impressive young man.

 

[Skybluefaz]

It won't be eradicated when people won't / can't discuss things without throwing stuff like "their own privilege" about.

It needs honest discussions, while nobody wants to say "That man was a c**t" if they were black and would rather say "The police chose him because of his skin colour" then things won't get sorted.

Behave. Don't be thinking privilege is a catch all term for white people cos it's more than that. It clearly does exist though. You can't have an honest discussion without recognizing it.

 

[ccfc92]

"Things like this?" Crime you mean? The perpetrators should be dealt with in accordance with the law. If it carries a heavier punishment because they were trying to imply a racist angle then fair enough but I have no clue on law to that level. What are your thoughts?

What crime have they commited?

 

[Skybluefaz]

What crime have they commited?

Fraud I'd say if they are extorting money out of people under those circumstances. You don't think it's criminal behavior?

 

[Nick]

Behave. Don't be thinking privilege is a catch all term for white people cos it's more than that. It clearly does exist though. You can't have an honest discussion without recognizing it.

Of course, been saying all through the thread honest discussions need to be had.

When however there are people who want to defend horrible cunts just because they are black and try to pin it on the police (completely diluting the whole argument about actual racist police) then things aren't going to change.

 

[clint van damme]

Of course, been saying all through the thread honest discussions need to be had.

When however there are people who want to defend horrible cunts just because they are black and try to pin it on the police (completely diluting the whole argument about actual racist police) then things aren't going to change.

If you remove racial profiling (Which to be fair as I pointed out earlier the MET are trying to do) that avenue is closed for anyone trying to make excuses for criminal behaviour.
It only has traction because prejudice exists and some people will try to use that to their advantage.

 

[ccfc92]

Fraud I'd say if they are extorting money out of people under those circumstances. You don't think it's criminal behavior?

Maybe you should go back and re-read the original post in context.

 

[Nick]

If you remove racial profiling (Which to be fair as I pointed out earlier the MET are trying to do) that avenue is closed for anyone trying to make excuses for criminal behaviour.
It only has traction because prejudice exists and some people will try to use that to their advantage.

I agree, of course anybody who is racist shouldn't be in the police or solely stopping people based on their skin colour. Have a look at how Tony reacts though, as if somebody who is the same description as a suspect shouldn't be stopped.

It is the prejudice that is actually there that should be called out, all of the sideshow stuff like a man who's wanted being restrained just dilutes.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If I were a professional footballer I'd consider being called a water buffalo at a football match as a refenence to my physique and speed , not my skin colour. People on here jumped up and down and concluded that Akinfenwa was insulted for some reason because a water buffalo appear to be black . Idris Elba clearly hasn't an issue.
There's no comparison to being called a paedophile in th context you talk about . If someone white (as they woud be ) played Peter Sutcliffe in a film are you saying i'd have no right not to be offended to not be called a seriel killer? . In that case all white males can be called paedophiles, murdererd, drug barons, psychpaths, etc, given all the films made since WW2. Neither can any black people.
Your example is ridiculous

The point you made was one black man took offence to being called something. Another black man played that animal in a film. Therefore no black man could consider it racist. And by lumping all black people in together it makes the inference potentially racist, assuming if one black man is ok with something they all should be.

Would you make the same sweeping generalisation about a white person. Using the example above if a white person is offended at being called a pig but someone else voiced Napoleon in 1984 or Babe they have no excuse for being offended?

Doesn't have to be about race either. Same example with a fat person. Fat person called a pig gets offended but a fat person voiced a pig in a film so therefore the fat person has no right to be offended.

It's a generalisation that doesn't stand up.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

The point you made was one black man took offence to being called something. Another black man played that animal in a film. Therefore no black man could consider it racist. And by lumping all black people in together it makes the inference potentially racist, assuming if one black man is ok with something they all should be.

Would you make the same sweeping generalisation about a white person. Using the example above if a white person is offended at being called a pig but someone else voiced Napoleon in 1984 or Babe they have no excuse for being offended?

Doesn't have to be about race either. Same example with a fat person. Fat person called a pig gets offended but a fat person voiced a pig in a film so therefore the fat person has no right to be offended.

It's a generalisation that doesn't stand up.

Why do you keep using this expression " right to be offended" ? It makes no sense.
Its all about race isn't it ? Its not about being fat . Unless you're a fat bastard.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Why do you keep using this expression " right to be offended" ? It makes no sense.
Its all about race isn't it ? Its not about being fat . Unless you're a fat bastard.

Exchange it to reason to be offended then.

The other point was about making generalisations about people based on a group they belong to and how if one person in that group isn't offended no-one should be. That doesn't have to be race. It could be religion, gender, sexuality... If you called a woman a whore would she have no reason to be offended because different women are whores or have played the part of a whore on TV?

That's the equivalent argument you were making. If Idris Elba, a black man, is OK voicing a buffalo in a film Akinfenwa, a totally different black man, should not be offended when someone likens him to one.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I'm sorry, but stuff like this is exactly why Racism is taking so long to be eradicated from society.

Wow, what a load of bullshit that is

 

[skybluetony176]

So you put the case that because Akinfenwa wasn't called a fat c**t that it must therefore be racist ? Then you go on google and look into finding as much as you can about water buffalo to play the race card. As lots of people did. You even found out all about Idris Elba's heritage which you proudly spouted.
Shall I do a hashtag for you ?

How about #researchwhatyouretalkingaboutsoyoudontclaimracismisokasablackactorboicedatalkinkinbuffaloinacartoon

 

[skybluetony176]

I'm certain some people ar just on the wind


I'd disagree. People usually call white people "pigs" because of the comparison to white people's "pink" skin. Surely if calling Akinfenwa a fat water buffalo is racist, that is racist too no?

Why specifically a water buffalo? Yeah exactly, surely the right-wing, racist Fleetwood player should be calling him the N word? Unless either A) it wasn't said at all (considering Akinfenwa did not actually hear it, but learned of it after the game) or B) he didn't mean it in a racial way, more of him having the physique he uniquely possesses for a football player.

No they don’t. Fat pig is a common phrase and has nothing to do with colour, you’re inventing that. What next? Only ginger people can be cunning as a fox because a fox has red fur.

 

[skybluetony176]

That is what I meant, a black/BAME person calling a white person a fat pig. I somehow doubt it would generate the same outrage, despite white people regularly being compared to pigs due to skin colour.

I have literally not once heard a white person being labelled a pig due to skin colour. For starters as the post you’re replying to already points out pigs come in an array of different colours, some are even multiple colours. The same can’t be said of water buffaloes to my knowledge and apparently knowing 2 facts about water buffaloes has made me the oracle on the subject.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Amazing.

So when Akinfenwa posts a picture of a water buffalo, people assume he was only talking about himself as the animal.

When someone else posts a picture of him as water buffalo, people assume he was only doing it to be racist.

Some people are just looking for an excuse to call anything and everything racist. This whole attitude and a lot of it comes from white people actually, does nothing to fix race issues. It's almost as if it isn't about equal privilege, but special privilege.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

How about #researchwhatyouretalkingaboutsoyoudontclaimracismisokasablackactorboicedatalkinkinbuffaloinacartoon

You've lost the argument . You've nowhere else to go. Looking for racism that doesn't exist. You are an absolute disgrace. You label people as racists / right wing scum etc but you've been found out for what you really are.
#findsomethingthatisntthere

 

[Ring Of Steel]

That is what I meant, a black/BAME person calling a white person a fat pig. I somehow doubt it would generate the same outrage, despite white people regularly being compared to pigs due to skin colour.

I’ve never, ever heard anyone call someone a pig due to their skin colour, you are either lying or just plain stupid.

 

[Nick]

I’ve never, ever heard anyone call someone a pig due to their skin colour, you are either lying or just plain stupid.

It's gammon now isn't it?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

It's gammon now isn't it?

no I don’t think so, a gammon (at least to my understanding) is more generally prejudiced about most things- climate change, sexual orientation, the indisputable greatness of Britain, obsessed with the war even though none of them lifted a finger, dislike of immigrants and distrust of foreigners, often daily mail/ express readers, pro brexit, generally 50 plus- look at CVDs avatar and you’ll see plenty of ‘em

you wouldn’t immediately call someone a gammon if they were a racist, you’d call them a racist- a gammon wants to go back to the good old days of the Empire and hates anything which even mildly disputes their way of viewing the world, which is based on how things used to be & incredibly insular.

I don’t use the word any more as obviously it was offending a few people

 

[ajsccfc]

Pig is a versatile one as it covers rudeness, chauvinism, greed and being disgusting, but never heard of it being used with racial connotation at all

 

[Ring Of Steel]

You've lost the argument . You've nowhere else to go. Looking for racism that doesn't exist. You are an absolute disgrace. You label people as racists / right wing scum etc but you've been found out for what you really are.
#findsomethingthatisntthere

I may be completely wrong here as I lost interest a bit when it got into talking animals- but didn’t Akinfenwa initially say it was racism before taking control of it and turning it into a joke? If that’s the case then whether or not you see it as racism I don’t understand how the guy is an ‘absolute disgrace’

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Pig is a versatile one as it covers rudeness, chauvinism, greed and being disgusting, but never heard of it being used with racial connotation at all

yep, that and an insult about the police of course, but not racism, that’s just stupid.

 

[Nick]

I may be completely wrong here as I lost interest a bit when it got into talking animals- but didn’t Akinfenwa initially say it was racism before taking control of it and turning it into a joke? If that’s the case then whether or not you see it as racism I don’t understand how the guy is an ‘absolute disgrace’

No?

He said it himself before hand.

 

[Nick]

no I don’t think so, a gammon (at least to my understanding) is more generally prejudiced about most things- climate change, sexual orientation, the indisputable greatness of Britain, obsessed with the war even though none of them lifted a finger, dislike of immigrants and distrust of foreigners, often daily mail/ express readers, pro brexit, generally 50 plus- look at CVDs avatar and you’ll see plenty of ‘em

you wouldn’t immediately call someone a gammon if they were a racist, you’d call them a racist- a gammon wants to go back to the good old days of the Empire and hates anything which even mildly disputes their way of viewing the world, which is based on how things used to be & incredibly insular.

I don’t use the word any more as obviously it was offending a few people

It refers to their skin colour.

 

[shmmeee]

One thing this has reminded me off, is in New York there is a street scam that relies heavily on Racism.

Basically, a large group of Black men/lads walk up to you and say "Shake a black man's hand".

It's obvious they are trying to earn money from something (this occasion it was "selling" their CD's, so it puts you in a position of if you say "No, not interested" will they attack you verbally calling you racist etc or do you just hand over some change straight away?

Be interested to hear people's thoughts on things like this?

Came across the CD scam when I was in NYC, never saw race come up once.

no I don’t think so, a gammon (at least to my understanding) is more generally prejudiced about most things- climate change, sexual orientation, the indisputable greatness of Britain, obsessed with the war even though none of them lifted a finger, dislike of immigrants and distrust of foreigners, often daily mail/ express readers, pro brexit, generally 50 plus- look at CVDs avatar and you’ll see plenty of ‘em

you wouldn’t immediately call someone a gammon if they were a racist, you’d call them a racist- a gammon wants to go back to the good old days of the Empire and hates anything which even mildly disputes their way of viewing the world, which is based on how things used to be & incredibly insular.

I don’t use the word any more as obviously it was offending a few people

No black gammons are there? I mean I use it and find it funny. But it’s specifically about their skin colour.

Different when it’s white on white though. I would never call as Asian lad a bounty bar, But hear it all the time between Asian lads.

Is gammon our N word?

Maybe they should reclaim it too. Sup ma gammon?

(this is what happens when I can’t sleep)

 

[Ring Of Steel]

It refers to their skin colour.

This is quite good

Pork Legs Are Shaking Up British Politics

How gammon, a traditional English meal, became a leftist insult—and why it's igniting a debate about racism

www.google.co.uk

“The insult is like the mirror image of “snowflake,” a slight used by the political right to denote a hypersensitive generation of young people on the left who struggle to deal with dissenting viewpoints and therefore require “safe spaces” lest they get “triggered.”

It’s more ageist than racist I would say.

 

[shmmeee]

It refers to their skin colour.

OK so what about Trump the Cheeto?

Is that cool because it’s artificial? Could gammon skin be classed as a lifestyle choice? I mean not all old white men have gammon skin. I assume it’s a result of choices. So does that make it ok?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

OK so what about Trump the Cheeto?

Is that cool because it’s artificial? Could gammon skin be classed as a lifestyle choice? I mean not all old white men have gammon skin. I assume it’s a result of choices. So does that make it ok?

The article actually says that actually, ie being a ‘gammon’ does not denote you were born of a certain race, it denotes that your beliefs, choices and outlook on life end up with you in a position where you’re branded a gammon. I wouldn’t give a toss if I was called it, but it is a bit insulting I guess, not racist though, after all there is no naturally bright pink skinned race.

 

[shmmeee]

The article actually says that actually, ie being a ‘gammon’ does not denote you were born of a certain race, it denotes that your beliefs, choices and outlook on life end up with you in a position where you’re branded a gammon. I wouldn’t give a toss if I was called it, but it is a bit insulting I guess, not racist though, after all there is no naturally bright pink skinned race.

Yeah but let’s be honest. As white guys, we’re pretty hard to genuinely offend with racist abuse. Louis CK does a good bit on this.

I think I’m happy gammon isn’t racist. Probably not helpful to political debate, but oh so accurate.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Yeah but let’s be honest. As white guys, we’re pretty hard to genuinely offend with racist abuse. Louis CK does a good bit on this.

I think I’m happy gammon isn’t racist. Probably not helpful to political debate, but oh so accurate.

I think you’re right on all points there tbh.

 

[skybluetony176]

It refers to their skin colour.

Only when they get angry, which is often and usually about something not worth getting angry about. It’s about attitude more than anything else.

 

[Nick]

This is quite good

Pork Legs Are Shaking Up British Politics

How gammon, a traditional English meal, became a leftist insult—and why it's igniting a debate about racism

www.google.co.uk

“The insult is like the mirror image of “snowflake,” a slight used by the political right to denote a hypersensitive generation of young people on the left who struggle to deal with dissenting viewpoints and therefore require “safe spaces” lest they get “triggered.”

It’s more ageist than racist I would say.

It is about their skin colour. Its not hard to grasp.