And why is there a disproportionslly low number going to university ? Why are they not getting the grades ? Are you saying that in a mixed class with white kids it's the white kids that get the grades and the black kids that don't? Who's to blame for that ?Perhaps ADM this is actually a measure of inequality in the education system between black and white kids meaning that as a reflection of that there’s a disproportionately low number of black kids going to university meaning that there’s a disproportionately low amount of black people with a carrier in law meaning that there’s a disproportionately low number of black judges.
Same as my daughters schools. But then I live in Rugby and not a deprived area of a city where the schools for that catchment area are attended by a majority black populace. Not sure what your point is.In what way? There are no different classrooms based on skin colour, obviously each school's level of teaching and quality is different but kids within the school would get offered the same level of education.
My daughter has black African, Caribbean and Asian kids in her class and they all get the opportunity as her to learn. It will be different when it comes to uni age as that's where you need to pay.
Also, they all integrate really well. There's no section of white kids, no group of asian kids etc. How it should be.
Again, the discussion is about learning so I am more than happy to learn the difference when told!
No because they have opened it up to a lot more white people but not black people.
Not sure if you know how you become a barrister but you have serve a pupilage at a chambers and these chambers still overwhelming pick white candidates.
Completely agree 100%. It seems to me that lots of people are making excuses . The problems are not in the classroom: the opportunities there are the same for everyone. If it's about funding then there may be an issue but as far as opportunities within schools it's the same for everyone.In what way? There are no different classrooms based on skin colour, obviously each school's level of teaching and quality is different but kids within the school would get offered the same level of education.
My daughter has black African, Caribbean and Asian kids in her class and they all get the opportunity as her to learn. It will be different when it comes to uni age as that's where you need to pay.
Also, they all integrate really well. There's no section of white kids, no group of asian kids etc. How it should be.
Again, the discussion is about learning so I am more than happy to learn the difference when told!
Same as my daughters schools. But then I live in Rugby and not a deprived area of a city where the schools for that catchment area are attended by a majority black populace. Not sure what your point is.
And why is there a disproportionslly low number going to university ? Why are they not getting the grades ? Are you saying that in a mixed class with white kids it's the white kids that get the grades and the black kids that don't? Who's to blame for that ?
You started of really well in that post asking the right questions. Then went to rat shit.And why is there a disproportionslly low number going to university ? Why are they not getting the grades ? Are you saying that in a mixed class with white kids it's the white kids that get the grades and the black kids that don't? Who's to blame for that ?
Yes, it goes on and on and on. I think too many people right now have too much time on their hands .It's hard to comment on that particular one without knowing the breakdown of applicants, surely?
ie. Rich white kids, rich black kids, poor white kids, poor black kids, rich asian kids, poor asian kids etc.
People don't seem to get that economic injustice is part of the issue of structural racism
Class isn't always based on skin colour though, is it?
You’re actually ignoring the problem by highlighting a solution. You’re talking about your daughter going to a school where there’s integration and as a result you would hope more equal opportunity. You’re living in a snapshot of your own personal experience and thinking that translates into every part of the country. It doesn’t.What does catchment area and majority black have to do with it?
Sidney Stringer and President Kennedy are both ranked Outstanding by Ofsted and are in Hillfields and Holbrooks.
Completely agree 100%. It seems to me that lots of people are making excuses . The problems are not in the classroom: the opportunities there are the same for everyone. If it's about funding then there may be an issue but as far as opportunities within schools it's the same for everyone.
You started of really well in that post asking the right questions. Then went to rat shit.
It’s not in area’s where the country is reasonably well integrated where the real issue is. It’s in areas of cities that are deprived, underfunded, majority black populace, going to schools that are underfunded. The lack of opportunity can be as simple as a postcode and the demographics between those postcodes. In some places that can even be narrowed down to which part of the street you live in. Look at Grenfell Tower for example.
You started of really well in that post asking the right questions. Then went to rat shit.
It’s not in area’s where the country is reasonably well integrated where the real issue is. It’s in areas of cities that are deprived, underfunded, majority black populace, going to schools that are underfunded. The lack of opportunity can be as simple as a postcode and the demographics between those postcodes. In some places that can even be narrowed down to which part of the street you live in. Look at Grenfell Tower for example.
"the opportunities there are the same for everyone"
And right here we have the very reason for the BLM movement & other associated attempts to raise consciousness of what actually happens in the real world- to raise awareness that this extravagantly naive type of view is widely held & people don't actually see what the problem is, rather they see a load of excuses.
And why is there a disproportionslly low number going to university ? Why are they not getting the grades ? Are you saying that in a mixed class with white kids it's the white kids that get the grades and the black kids that don't? Who's to blame for that ?
You've got this all wrong- there is not a "disproportionately low number" going to University. In fact data suggests the opposite is true. The issue is more that once leaving university the same opportunities can often not be available. As an example- about 10% students are black, however under 1% are professors. Its not all racism, obviously, and its more complex than this kind of lazy analysis- but to deny there is an issue is just crazy.
Schools are based on postcode regardless of race though?
Yeah, some areas will have parts that are rich and expensive and then just up the road it will be the total opposite. I think that every time I drive down Kenilworth Road, Tamworth Road or into Solihull.
I get that there will be areas that will be majority black but this is a genuine question. What stops people moving? Are councils putting black people into a particular area compared to white people?
Again, can you tell me what opportunities a black kid in my daughters class (she's 11) doesn't get that a white kid does when at school?
It's about discussion, rather than throwing ignorance and race cards about and saying people are naive and blind.
BAME tend to congregate together in similar areas for economic and historical reasons. The housing is usually cheaper and also their communities are based in these areas as these areas are the only ones where they could originally get housing.
Originally when these people then tried to move to "nicer" areas the white population of these areas made it clear they were not welcome thus they stick to the historical community.
Thanks, Gerry adams' fan club.I'd trust David Lammy a black lawyer on matters of black people and the law establishment over some walloper like ADM
OK so that's where the breakdown of courses and qualifications need to be looked at. How many black students are there compared to white on particular courses where they don't follow through into jobs related to the course where they could be professors?
People aren't denying anything. This is the issue, there's a discussion and no facts or stats or anything. When people ask questions they just get labelled as naive, white privilege and in some cases "racist" for asking those questions.
How are "white people" going to learn if that's the level of discussion that comes back when questions are asked?
Like I just said- the issue is not about having opportunities available in school or at university, its more what happens after then, and it is way more complex than talking about Sidney Stringer school & attempting to use that to demonstrate that actually there is no racism issue once people get into the wide world after education.
You're dead right, it is for discussion, thats how people learn, however throwing around terms like "race card" & making massively sweeping statements like "everyone gets the same opportunities" just tends to suggest that conclusions have already been made, when its way, way more complex than that.
Like I just said- the issue is not about having opportunities available in school or at university, its more what happens after then, and it is way more complex than talking about Sidney Stringer school & attempting to use that to demonstrate that actually there is no racism issue once people get into the wide world after education.
Thanks, Gerry adams' fan club.
As I said, every kid in my daughter's class gets the same opportunity for school so WHERE do the issues begin in education?
Rather than telling me things I haven't said or making out I am denying things I haven't, you aren't explaining where it's happening and where the issue lies.
Why is mentioning that 2 of the best schools in Coventry are in particularly "bad" areas and have a fairly high BAME number of pupils irrelevant? Again I am just basing that on facts and statistics.
These are the discussions that need to be had, it's alright kneeling and scrapping and it may mean some people bang on about me being blind, white privilege or naive but when you give people like me the answers then they will learn.
What you're suggesting Nick is that people are actually different and may have different priorities . I agree completely with the last paragraph in particular.Of course, there will be racist people within power who will use it
I used to rock about in an RS Turbo, I was pulled over a couple of times a week just because of that. Are polite stop and searching black people outside Canary Wharf for example or are they stopping gangs of youths or searching people suspected of having knives? I don't doubt that there will be racist people just targeting but if in London for example knife crime / gangs are made up of more black people then the majority stopped and searched will be black. Change that to somewhere up north (lets say Liverpool) where more gangs may be white then you would expect more white people to be searched. That's not saying suspicious white people shouldn't be stopped and searched, far from it.
I guess a lot of Asian communities really push their kids from an early age and it's much more important for their kid to be a doctor or a solicitor than it was for me to become either when I was growing up.
As I said, every kid in my daughter's class gets the same opportunity for school so WHERE do the issues begin in education? I
This is the issue, the education system is one of the few systems were they have made good strides in tackling structural racism. It's what happens when these kids leave the system that is the issue. Why qualified black barristers are being overlooked for judge roles, why black law graduates with great results in their law degree find it harder to find a chambers willing to take them on a as a trainee.
Do not get me wrong there is a massive issue with the under performance of poor white kids in the education system especially away from the cities but this is a different issue and will be to do with the decline of the traditional working class industries.
But we've said many times already the issues are when these kids leave the education system
Perhaps ADM this is actually a measure of inequality in the education system between black and white kids meaning that as a reflection of that there’s a disproportionately low number of black kids going to university meaning that there’s a disproportionately low amount of black people with a carrier in law meaning that there’s a disproportionately low number of black judges.
Erm...
This is why we are discussing education and why I asked that question.
So now there isn't an issue in education at all and it's when they leave it? So I am not naive or denying racism then?
I am in no way denying racism, I am trying to discuss and figure out at which point it occurs most in that example.
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