Ring Of Steel
Well-Known Member
I am aiming that at ADM who seems to think that its a lifestyle choice to not want to make progress in the world, as a result of just having different priorities.
Erm...
This is why we are discussing education and why I asked that question.
So now there isn't an issue in education at all and it's when they leave it? So I am not naive or denying racism then?
I am in no way denying racism, I am trying to discuss and figure out at which point it occurs most in that example.
Firstly, no it doesn’t because it’s only talking about people from state education, not people from private and state education combined. Secondly it follows the trend of every demographic that you’re chances of going to university has increased regardless of ethnicity. It also doesn’t demonstrate opportunity once you’ve left education based on ethnicity which is another issue again.This shows as a proportion or population you are more likely to go to university now if your black than white doesn’t it?
Entry rates into higher education
But we've said m
Perhaps in the UK many choose not to. Perhaps in the UK they don't have the opportunity. Perhaps its both. Do you know ?You think it is a matter of choice rather than the lack of opportunity to take that particular path, or even believe that path is an option?
I haven't said that though have I.
I can't remember saying you did?
I never said there wasn’t.Lots of deprived areas in the UK are not specifically black areas.
Bullshit. Its a lifestyle choice is it ? They're your words not mine, do gooder.I am aiming that at ADM who seems to think that its a lifestyle choice to not want to make progress in the world, as a result of just having different priorities.
This discussion is from Tony saying about the inequality in the education system though? Hence I asked what opportunity a black kid in my daughter's class has different to a white kid while at school.
I have been told I am naive and that I am denying racism happens but I still haven't been told an answer.
So why aim that at me?
I am aiming that at ADM who seems to think that its a lifestyle choice to not want to make progress in the world, as a result of just having different priorities.
I pointed out the reason why I was asking questions about education. For asking those I have been told I am naive and denying racism exists.
Any wonder why people are "naive" when instead of having a proper discussion, shit like that gets thrown about because they don't seem to know what they are on about?
White oriole from the lowest social class are the most disadvantaged - all data and studies tell you that - he’s confusing racism with social class
I would indeed suggest that ADM saying that people just have different priorities is a tad naive.
What people also need to recognise is what their children are currently experiencing in school isn’t a reflection on the opportunity to become a judge now. For instance, I think you can become a Magistrate at 18 IIRC but the vast majority are over 30 and even over 50. So these people were most likely in the educational system 20,30,40 years ago, a very different time. If you want to be a judge at a higher level you need the relevant law qualifications and a certain amount of experience working in law so past being a magistrate the opportunity diminishes again.
There’s also a correlation between the two though.This seems to be the issue, there's a difference between social class and race.
Nick pointed out that Asian kids seem to do better than the rest. Why is that ? Their parents might prioritise that their kids' education is of more importance than my parents may have.I would indeed suggest that ADM saying that people just have different priorities is a tad naive.
There’s also a correlation between the two though.
This seems to be the issue, there's a difference between social class and race.
Best way forward is when applying for a job, a course, further education - you are just issued an application number and are not required to give your name, age, gender, race, faith, ethicity on the application form. You are soley judged on your qualifications and experience. I'd even suggest that those that make the shortlist are interviewed by a 3rd, independent but professional party, and provide a transcript and honest report of the candidate. That removes all unconcious bias and the best person gets the job.
It'd be an interesting social experiment. You'd have to increase funding for transport etc. while you were at it.Otherwise people are in effect saying that there is systemic racism in education
You could end this inequality very easily. You could end the notions comprehensive schools are not essentially selective by removing catchment areas and just sending children randomly to the schools across the city
It would be interest to see if anyone would object to that
I'd say it's more of a social mobility issue. Which is not just a black problem. I haven't conducted a study on it. Getting upset at David Lammy and suggesting it's down to choice seems weird though.Perhaps in the UK many choose not to. Perhaps in the UK they don't have the opportunity. Perhaps its both. Do you know ?
No one in my family went into law. My brothers and sisters weren't interested. That's just the way it was. I've never really done a study on it.
I'd say it's more of a social mobility issue. Which is not just a black problem. I haven't conducted a study on it. Getting upset at David Lammy and suggesting it's down to choice seems weird though.
How different is that to how it works now, in general?
There’s also a correlation between the two though.
You put your name on the application and a person with a "white" sounding name takes on average 9 applications before being asked to come in for an interview and a person with a "BAME" name takes 16 applications.
I'd say it's more of a social mobility issue. Which is not just a black problem. I haven't conducted a study on it. Getting upset at David Lammy and suggesting it's down to choice seems weird though.
So the racism is with people hiring for jobs?
ADM is doubly weird because he says maybe black people don't want to be lawyers when Lammy is talking about the prospects of black people who are already lawyers.
Are they applying for a job in New Cross or Nantwich ? One's predominantly black and one is white, before you ask.You put your name on the application and a person with a "white" sounding name takes on average 9 applications before being asked to come in for an interview and a person with a "BAME" name takes 16 applications.
Seems that way, here's a bbc report with a link to another study that shows this:
Why your name matters in the search for a job
So the issue is "old boys clubs" in particular jobs like law, MPs where it's the jolly old white men who follow on from their dads and their dads before them.
Again, is that skin colour or is it class?
So the racism is with people hiring for jobs?
You’ve pretty much just described the school system there. Catchment area doesn’t mean a fat lot anymore, unless it’s an underfunded, failing school in a deprived area that no one is trying to get its kids into. We moved a few years ago and the people we sold our house too brought it because it was in the catchment for Ashlawn, within a year it was out the catchment, our new house remained in the catchment despite being literally just down the road. Our eldest got into Ashlawn and started with kids from not just all over the town but kids who don’t live in Rugby and kids that don’t even live in Warwickshire. Two years later our youngest is going up to high school and again the catchment has changed, again our house is no longer in the catchment (I can walk to Ashlawn with a dodgy knee in 4 minutes flat) and my youngest’s got in on the basis of sibling already at school. Schools, especially high schools are picking and choosing more and more who they accept. Catchment areas are becoming a thing of the past.Otherwise people are in effect saying that there is systemic racism in education
You could end this inequality very easily. You could end the notions comprehensive schools are not essentially selective by removing catchment areas and just sending children randomly to the schools across the city
It would be interest to see if anyone would object to that
You’ve pretty much just described the school system there. Catchment area doesn’t mean a fat lot anymore, unless it’s an underfunded, failing school in a deprived area that no one is trying to get its kids into. We moved a few years ago and the people we sold our house too brought it because it was in the catchment for Ashlawn, within a year it was out the catchment, our new house remained in the catchment despite being literally just down the road. Our eldest got into Ashlawn and started with kids from not just all over the town but kids who don’t live in Rugby and kids that don’t even live in Warwickshire. Two years later our youngest is going up to high school and again the catchment has changed, again our house is no longer in the catchment (I can walk to Ashlawn with a dodgy knee in 4 minutes flat) and my youngest’s got in on the basis of sibling already at school. Schools, especially high schools are picking and choosing more and more who they accept. Catchment areas are becoming a thing of the past.
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