George Floyd (2 Viewers)

[Nick]

If people were worried about defunding the police they would have been opposing it for the ladst ten years and not voting Tory

20,000 officers and 20,000 civilian support staff gone.

Exactly, but people have seen stuff in America on social media and jumped on it. Attacking the police over here because somebody was killed by police in a completely different country.

The issue is that when open discussions are had, you have people jump in to try and shout "racist" or "gammon" whenever they can. Those are the ones who want to stir things up.

 

---

[Sky Blue Pete]

I like nw’s simple nod measure of how embracing of equality a person is

I would also agree with nick that anyone that treats another person in a negative way because of the colour of their skin then they are a xxxx

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere

So simply by supporting black lives matter will improve justice for every group if what mlk said above was factual and I think it is

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Then on the other hand, "White Lives Matter", "Hispanic Lives Matter", "Asian Lives Matter". Obviously that's a truth too?

Again, it's to do with discourse and framing. In everyday conversation, before this oppression got vocalised, I'd have looked at you oddly if you said it, wondered why you were saying it as it was obvious, shrugged my shoulders, moved on and thought no more of it.

*That* is why there's a need for a campaign, because you're not doing that with Black Lives Matter, you're arguing it!

And in current framing, to say White Lives Matter would be a provocative act of Othering, marginalisation, and attempt to dimiinish a very real need.

Shrug your shoulders, find it an odd phrase, but move on from the phrase Black Lives Matter and, if everybody does that, there is no need to assert it as everybody will agree.

 

[clint van damme]

Again, so much of it is based on America. You have people over here going on about the thousands of black people killed each year by white people in racist attacks etc. It's stuff that is seen on social media and repeated. There's no doubt that the media are stirring people up into a frenzy as usual.

Im not saying racism in America is great and shouldn't change, of course it should. Just like everywhere else, the world would be a much better place without it.

There's no doubt there's institutional racism that "we" don't see here as well as the blatant racism that is seen, there's no doubt there needs to be changed but when you have people who watch stuff in America and start shouting over here it just gets away from the point. Doesn't it?

Why is somebody preaching about police brutality thousands of miles away, in a completely different country when they probably have no idea about the bloke who got shot in their own city by the police?

I've said in this thread we don't have the issues the States have but that doesn't mean we don't have issues.
I'm prepared to believe black communities when they say there are problems because it's not something I'm going to experience.
Middle aged white men are great at telling demographics they're not part of how they should react to certain situations that they have no experience of.

 

[Nick]

I like nw’s simple nod measure of how embracing of equality a person is

I would also agree with nick that anyone that treats another person in a negative way because of the colour of their skin then they are a xxxx

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere

So it’s not just about black lives matter simply put injustice of any group impacts justice of every group

I'm more on about the wording and how it's so open to perception.

"Black Lives Matter" is a truth that nobody can disagree with, "White Lives Matter" and you are a racist. Then it's spun from the other side and just reverse the meanings of it. People start reading into their perceptions of it, if you say "White Lives Matter" you don't think black people should be equal, you are racist etc.

There is far too much that just gets away from the point and distracts from people being educated and having their eyes opened.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I'm more on about the wording and how it's so open to perception.

"Black Lives Matter" is a truth that nobody can disagree with, "White Lives Matter" and you are a racist. Then it's spun from the other side and just reverse the meanings of it. People start reading into their perceptions of it, if you say "White Lives Matter" you don't think black people should be equal, you are racist etc.

There is far too much that just gets away from the point and distracts from people being educated and having their eyes opened.

Yep absolutely agree

 

[clint van damme]

Exactly, but people have seen stuff in America on social media and jumped on it. Attacking the police over here because somebody was killed by police in a completely different country.

The issue is that when open discussions are had, you have people jump in to try and shout "racist" or "gammon" whenever they can. Those are the ones who want to stir things up.

People were at anti BLM marches wearing MAGA hats. They also attacked the police. Just in the interest of balance

 

[Nick]

I've said in this thread we don't have the issues the States have but that doesn't mean we don't have issues.
I'm prepared to believe black communities when they say there are problems because it's not something I'm going to experience.
Middle aged white men are great at telling demographics they're not part of how they should react to certain situations that they have no experience of.

I have never denied that there are issues, I even said it in that post.

This is part of the issue, if you say anything that isn't agreeing 100% you are made out to be denying racism exists. Of course it does and it needs to be sorted.

People shouting about racist police in America and banging on about statistics in Texas is pointless, look closer to home to get things sorted first for the BAME communities here.

 

[hill83]

 

[Nick]

People were at anti BLM marches wearing MAGA hats. They also attacked the police. Just in the interest of balance

Again, you had the "football" lads kicking police. I am not saying anybody is innocent.

Some people over here are far too obsessed with America, crying over Trump day in day out or supporting him day in, day out. It's strange.

 

[TomRad85]

I've said in this thread we don't have the issues the States have but that doesn't mean we don't have issues.
I'm prepared to believe black communities when they say there are problems because it's not something I'm going to experience.
Middle aged white men are great at telling demographics they're not part of how they should react to certain situations that they have no experience of.

You're kind of lumping all black people in together. I'm willing to bet there's a good few who don't agree with the actions of the black lives matter movement, but of course no one wants to hear from them. For every Stormzy, there's a Zuby.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yep at the coventry March - the initial one. As well as feeling out of place as one of very few white people in attendance I was really quite upset by one young lady who kept shouting fuck the police.
I am absolutely happy to stand alongside my black brothers and sisters and say let’s do better. I’m not happy to say all police are pigs or racist or scum or fuck them.

I didn’t have the guts to speak to the person to ask why. I’m also pretty sure people would have kicked off if the police had politely requested she stop shouting it.

Hey ho the world is broke but we can help make it less so

 

[Nick]

You're kind of lumping all black people in together. I'm willing to bet there's a good few who don't agree with the actions of the black lives matter movement, but of course no one wants to hear from them. For every Stormzy, there's a Zuby.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

I'd much prefer to hear from black people who are both for and against it than the strange white blokes who shout Gammon all the time.

 

[clint van damme]

You're kind of lumping all black people in together. I'm willing to bet there's a good few who don't agree with the actions of the black lives matter movement, but of course no one wants to hear from them. For every Stormzy, there's a Zuby.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Im not lumping all black people together at all.
I slated Biden in another thread for saying black.people who support trump aren't really black, an outrageous comment.
There will be a whole raft of opinions about this.

I'm mainly talking about the people who are on or support the protests and even within that group there will be people who disagree with certain actions.

If you don't agree with BLM what do you think should be done to improve equality?

 

[TomRad85]

I'd much prefer to hear from black people who are both for and against it than the strange white blokes who shout Gammon all the time.

I notice Dizzee Rascal had absolutely no time for it either, despite Morgan trying to drag him into it.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Nick]

Yep at the coventry March - the initial one. As well as feeling out of place as one of very few white people in attendance I was really quite upset by one young lady who kept shouting fuck the police.
I am absolutely happy to stand alongside my black brothers and sisters and say let’s do better. I’m not happy to say all police are pigs or racist or scum or fuck them.

I didn’t have the guts to speak to the person to ask why. I’m also pretty sure people would have kicked off if the police had politely requested she stop shouting it.

Hey ho the world is broke but we can help make it less so

This is the thing. People will use it to push their own things on both sides.

Of course it doesn't mean everybody there thought the same, of course not every person there wanted to throw stuff at police horses. The same as not everybody by a statue was a racist, there were some veterans who were there chatting with BLM protestors with no issues at all. The media rarely show the pictures of unity and harmony that have been seen at the protests which is the real heart warming stuff and how it should be.

I still feel the media just want to stir everything up as much as possible. Whether it's to get clicks, sell papers or something more sinister I don't know.

 

[TomRad85]

Im not lumping all black people together at all.
I slated Biden in another thread for saying black.people who support trump aren't really black, an outrageous comment.
There will be a whole raft of opinions about this.

I'm mainly talking about the people who are on or support the protests and even within that group there will be people who disagree with certain actions.

If you don't agree with BLM what do you think should be done to improve equality?

I don't know, I can't answer that. Historically the country is as equal as its ever been (look back just a decade or 2) so keep on heading in that direction i guess.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Nick]

Im not lumping all black people together at all.
I slated Biden in another thread for saying black.people who support trump aren't really black, an outrageous comment.
There will be a whole raft of opinions about this.

I'm mainly talking about the people who are on or support the protests and even within that group there will be people who disagree with certain actions.

If you don't agree with BLM what do you think should be done to improve equality?

Again, that's America isn't it. Again it's politics.

I just think it's far too open, you can agree with aspects of things but not others. You can of course agree about equality but then not agree about other aspects of what it's about.

People seem to think that it's all or nothing, either way. Some of the stuff you see in the Premier League and on Sky is a bit over the top, you have the badges given to presenters for NHS and Black Lives matter to where as if it's something they have to do. It's a bit forced and will be like the NHS stuff where it will awkwardly be phased out.

Again, if you have an opinion on the Premier League aspect it doesn't then mean you don't want equality. People on both sides are too quick to jump in with labels, make out you are racist. Ironically a lot of the time they are white.

 

[clint van damme]

I think a lot of people want everyone to forget what happened to George Floyd, ( and many others before him).

Pretend this is just the media making something out of nothing and move on without getting to the crux of the problem.

 

[Nick]

I think a lot of people want everyone to forget what happened to George Floyd, ( and many others before him).

Pretend this is just the media making something out of nothing and move on without getting to the crux of the problem.

Not at all, it's just the problems in the UK are different to the problems in America. It doesn't mean there aren't problems.

To say the media aren't fueling things is a bit naive as well, again not saying things shouldn't be fixed or changed either.

It is going to end up like Brexit, lots of bickering, each newspaper pushing different things, social media going apeshit and nothing gets done.

 

[clint van damme]

I don't know, I can't answer that. Historically the country is as equal as its ever been (look back just a decade or 2) so keep on heading in that direction i guess.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

We definitely don't have the issues there are in the States thankfully though we have regressed recently in my opinion.

Unfortunately though we do react massively to events in America and that's what happened here.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

This is the thing. People will use it to push their own things on both sides.

Of course it doesn't mean everybody there thought the same, of course not every person there wanted to throw stuff at police horses. The same as not everybody by a statue was a racist, there were some veterans who were there chatting with BLM protestors with no issues at all. The media rarely show the pictures of unity and harmony that have been seen at the protests which is the real heart warming stuff and how it should be.

I still feel the media just want to stir everything up as much as possible. Whether it's to get clicks, sell papers or something more sinister I don't know.

Probably again not all journalists or media but definitely some do absolutely and not just to sell papers but because they genuinely have a political and moral opinion on this (daily mail)

 

[Nick]

We definitely don't have the issues there are in the States thankfully though we have regressed recently in my opinion.

Unfortunately though we do react massively to events in America and that's what happened here.

Which is why it's pointless somebody in London preaching about statistics and something that Donald Trump or somebody else does or says.

Fix our own issues first, get equality for the BAME communities here.

 

[clint van damme]

Not at all, it's just the problems in the UK are different to the problems in America. It doesn't mean there aren't problems.

To say the media aren't fueling things is a bit naive as well, again not saying things shouldn't be fixed or changed either.

It is going to end up like Brexit, lots of bickering, each newspaper pushing different things, social media going apeshit and nothing gets done.

My opinion.of the media isn't very high but the root cause of all of this was a policeman kneeling on a man's neck until he died not the press.
It may have happened thousands of miles away but no one should lose sight of that.

We don't want to end up like the States.

 

[clint van damme]

Which is why it's pointless somebody in London preaching about statistics and something that Donald Trump or somebody else does or says.

Fix our own issues first, get equality for the BAME communities here.

We'll always be hugely influenced by what happens in the States. It's always been the way.
Watch the coverage the election gets here. It's incredible. No.other country gets anywhere even close to that amount during their elections

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

My opinion.of the media isn't very high but the root cause of all of this was a policeman kneeling on a man's neck until he died not the press.
It may have happened thousands of miles away but no one should lose sight of that.

We don't want to end up like the States.

No that’s something we can all agree with

 

[TomRad85]

No that’s something we can all agree with

Well quite, I've always found Americans quite unhinged in general, left or right, black or white. I really don't want us to become them, that's for sure.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Nick]

My opinion.of the media isn't very high but the root cause of all of this was a policeman kneeling on a man's neck until he died not the press.
It may have happened thousands of miles away but no one should lose sight of that.

We don't want to end up like the States.

Look at the media since then. Look at how things are forced, it was the same with the NHS stuff. That isn't saying things shouldn't be covered but it's the way it's forced.

I've seen loads of videos on groupchats of horrific shit all over the world, some involving police as well.

I mean, a man was shot by police Coventry and I doubt most of the people crowding in broad gate don't even know his name. I bet they didn't know Darren cumberbach until recently either.

Not wanting to end up like them isn't going to fix things here. We could say we don't want to end up like Iran to too.

It's the UK problems then need to be looked at and fixed.

 

[TomRad85]

My opinion.of the media isn't very high but the root cause of all of this was a policeman kneeling on a man's neck until he died not the press.
It may have happened thousands of miles away but no one should lose sight of that.

We don't want to end up like the States.

There's injustice the world over though mate, the obsession with importing American politics is really really odd.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[David O'Day]

 

[Nick]

Bit different to killing people though.

I mean it's as if it's their job to be more suspicious about people than the public.

Still FUCK THE POLICE, DEFUND THEM RAR RAR, EVERYBODY IS RACIST.

 

[Nick]

Just watched the Dizzee Rascal interview, that has been the issue with Piers Morgan all along. He was figured out from the off and really didn't like it.

 

[skybluetony176]

I really struggle to see what’s so difficult to understand about the BLM movement. I keep hearing, seeing reading stuff everywhere from white people going on like it’s some sort of power grab for people of colour to turn the tide on white people and all of a sudden have more rights than whites. I don’t understand the suspicion and resentment.

 

[Nick]

I really struggle to see what’s so difficult to understand about the BLM movement. I keep hearing, seeing reading stuff everywhere from white people going on like it’s some sort of power grab for people of colour to turn the tide on white people and all of a sudden have more rights than whites. I don’t understand the suspicion and resentment.

It's the lack of education and discussion about it and what people's actual issues are. BLM is just 3 words, we see it on the news every other day, we see it on football shirts, we see people wearing badges, we see hash tags but that's all we see. The 3 words. Then you take to the internet to look it up and you see so much shit from either side about everything.

It's mostly a group of white men like Piers Morgan (and me being very guilty at times) being involved in a discussion where we have fuck all idea of some of the issues in the UK. Then you have people going on about Trump and something in America.

Without sounding harsh, I'd rather things were sorted closer to home before worrying about those fuckups in America.

Let's be honest, some people from both sides, right left, black white will want to use this to push agendas. The media want to push agendas.

Where does this leave "normal" people who want to have a life where people are equal? Try and ask questions and have the old "gammon" and "racist" bullshit.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I've not posted for several weeks as this place has become a bit of a cesspit......but for anyone still (unbelievably) struggling with the BLM vs. white lives matter slogans, have a listen to Tony Livesey (Burnley fan) from yesterdays 5 live.

BBC Radio 5 live - In Short, 'It is time, perhaps, for an uncomfortable conversation'

Now try & be nice to each other.....have a good day folks.:emoji_sunglasses: