George Floyd (26 Viewers)

jimmyhillsfanclub · Jun 24, 2020

I've not posted for several weeks as this place has become a bit of a cesspit......but for anyone still (unbelievably) struggling with the BLM vs. white lives matter slogans, have a listen to Tony Livesey (Burnley fan) from yesterdays 5 live.

BBC Radio 5 live - In Short, 'It is time, perhaps, for an uncomfortable conversation'

Now try & be nice to each other.....have a good day folks.:emoji_sunglasses:

David O'Day · Jun 24, 2020

Nick said:
Bit different to killing people though.

I mean it's as if it's their job to be more suspicious about people than the public.

Still FUCK THE POLICE, DEFUND THEM RAR RAR, EVERYBODY IS RACIST.

How clueless can one man be?

That post does not compare the actions of the Minneapolis police to the police in the UK but it points out there are issues with the police in the UK.

It is not their job to police based on misguided racial stereotypes, this operationally flawed as well as they'll miss the vast majority of criminals who are white.

covcity4life · Jun 24, 2020

On flip side stereotypes are there for a reason

If police wanted to search me I would let them and move on with my day. Webshoukf all have same goal. To help catch criminals

In America they treat you like guilty but i havnt seen many videos of UK police doing that. If co-operative should be fine

Nick · Jun 24, 2020

David O'Day said:
How clueless can one man be?

That post does not compare the actions of the Minneapolis police to the police in the UK but it points out there are issues with the police in the UK.

It is not their job to police based on misguided racial stereotypes, this operationally flawed as well as they'll miss the vast majority of criminals who are white.

Cunts like you are part of the problem.

I mean, it's as if that says "believe stereotypes about black people" and I am misreading it.

People like you are part of the issue, jumping about shouting Gammon and Racist as much as you can. A shit Piers Morgan, telling everybody else they are clueless and racist.

You bring nothing to any constructive discussion. If anything, you go out of your way for it not to be constructive.

clint van damme · Jun 24, 2020

TomRad85 said:
There's injustice the world over though mate, the obsession with importing American politics is really really odd.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

I wouldn't disagree though I can sort of understand it.
But no one has said this on the Trump threads, but now it's BLM people are saying it. You can see how some people assume there's an agenda even if there's not.
In the interest of balance there's been terrible police brutality on our door steps in France. First against the yellow jackets and recently against the health workers and unless I've missed it it's received very little coverage.

hill83 · Jun 24, 2020

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I've not posted for several weeks as this place has become a bit of a cesspit......but for anyone still (unbelievably) struggling with the BLM vs. white lives matter slogans, have a listen to Tony Livesey (Burnley fan) from yesterdays 5 live.

BBC Radio 5 live - In Short, 'It is time, perhaps, for an uncomfortable conversation'

Now try & be nice to each other.....have a good day folks.:emoji_sunglasses:

Basically exactly what I said many many many pages back. But here we are.

Nick · Jun 24, 2020

clint van damme said:
I wouldn't disagree though I can sort of understand it.
But no one has said this on the Trump threads, but now it's BLM people are saying it. You can see how some people assume there's an agenda even if there's not.
In the interest of balance there's been terrible police brutality on our door steps in France. First against the yellow jackets and recently against the health workers and unless I've missed it it's received very little coverage.

Most people probably got bored of the Trump and Brexit threads years ago.

There's been police brutality in Coventry, why don't we deal with that? There are militant police in Africa who literally go on rampages.

If people want to look everywhere but here to try and prove their points, nothing is going to get fixed. People don't want to get a degree in politics, people don't want to have something that happened hundreds of years ago thrown at them. It's about here and now, how can we fix it?

It does need to be an uncomfortable discussion, by that I don't mean people like D'OD and their bullshit over and over again. People do need things pointing out that they won't see without being labelled a gammon or a racist. People shouldn't be worried to ask constructive, valid questions to make sense of things.

The way it comes across is again like the NHS stuff, you had to go outside and clap else you hated the NHS and didn't care. There are loads of random groups being started up, nothing will get sorted while uncomfortable discussions aren't had.

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 24, 2020

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I've not posted for several weeks as this place has become a bit of a cesspit......but for anyone still (unbelievably) struggling with the BLM vs. white lives matter slogans, have a listen to Tony Livesey (Burnley fan) from yesterdays 5 live.

BBC Radio 5 live - In Short, 'It is time, perhaps, for an uncomfortable conversation'

Now try & be nice to each other.....have a good day folks.:emoji_sunglasses:

Excellent. Black lives need to matter more than they currently do. Not quite as catchy but does prove the point that anyone who can’t nod their head as nw said has another motive. No reasonable and sane person could disagree with his statement.

Nick · Jun 24, 2020

Sky Blue Pete said:
Excellent. Black lives need to matter more than they currently do. Not quite as catchy but does prove the point that anyone who can’t nod their head as nw said has another motive. No reasonable and sane person could disagree with his statement.

Haven't got any headphones at the minute, what does he say?

clint van damme · Jun 24, 2020

hill83 said:
Basically exactly what I said many many many pages back. But here we are.

Careful, he started the EU thread.
This could be a trap.

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 24, 2020

Nick said:
Haven't got any headphones at the minute, what does he say?

Whole list of statistics from this country about how black people have things worse than white people. Also that the black Pfa guy was reflecting on the people that put the plane in the sky stand by what they did and this means we need some uncomfortable conversations. I have to say nick ive been so impressed with the quality of your posts on this thread. You are much more forthright than I feel comfortable being but I find myself thinking yep agree with that, that’s a good point, hadn’t seen it that way etc etx

Nick · Jun 24, 2020

Sky Blue Pete said:
Whole list of statistics from this country about how black people have things worse than white people. Also that the black Pfa guy was reflecting on the people that put the plane in the sky stand by what they did and this means we need some uncomfortable conversations. I have to say nick ive been so impressed with the quality of your posts on this thread. You are much more forthright than I feel comfortable being but I find myself thinking yep agree with that, that’s a good point, hadn’t seen it that way etc etx

I don't think people should have to feel scared about people like D'OD jumping on and calling everybody a racist just for asking questions. If everybody who asks stuff just gets shouted as a racist or told which wing they are on then people won't have the conversations will they?

There will be so much that I and others miss that goes on in society that we shouldn't but asking about it or questioning some of the BLM stuff doesn't instantly mean that people don't want black people to be equal. It's madness.

Otis · Jun 24, 2020

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I've not posted for several weeks as this place has become a bit of a cesspit......but for anyone still (unbelievably) struggling with the BLM vs. white lives matter slogans, have a listen to Tony Livesey (Burnley fan) from yesterdays 5 live.

BBC Radio 5 live - In Short, 'It is time, perhaps, for an uncomfortable conversation'

Now try & be nice to each other.....have a good day folks.:emoji_sunglasses:

That is brilliantly put by him there.

Otis · Jun 24, 2020

hill83 said:
Basically exactly what I said many many many pages back. But here we are.

Yup. Not getting through, Hill. Just how many times can you keep saying the same thing before you just give up and stop saying anything at all.

ajsccfc · Jun 24, 2020

The problem with people asking why are there no WLM protests about what happened in Reading is because BLM isn't purely about the murder of a black man or that black people are killed, it's who did it and the long history of what it's representative of. Fuckwits like Gazolba will routinely bring up black people shooting each other in Chicago (every racist's new favourite strawman city) as if they're countering a point but they know they're deliberately ignoring it instead. As a white man who's faced zero prejudice in my entire life I'm quite content to not be the focus.

hill83 · Jun 24, 2020

I’m not calling you racist in any way Nick. And you aren’t even suggesting that I am. So now the caveats are out of the way.

It’s been explained to you AT LEAST 25 times and you aren’t listening so there’s literally no point going on about it anymore.

Nick · Jun 24, 2020

hill83 said:
I’m not calling you racist in any way Nick. And you aren’t even suggesting that I am. So now the caveats are out of the way.

It’s been explained to you AT LEAST 25 times and you aren’t listening so there’s literally no point going on about it anymore.

Just because I ask other questions about stuff going on, it doesn't mean I don't think people shouldn't be equal. Far from it.

Just saying "Black Lives Matter" is as generic as saying "White Lives Matter" and then it's about context, the bloke who hired that plane is clearly a proven racist. I do feel as if the media is trying to whip up some sort of storm half the time and then those ignorant cunts jump on.

It's a no brainer that people should be equal based on skin colour. I just don't think everybody should be banging on about stuff in America when there are issues in this country that need to be looked at and resolved first.

I ask questions to try and figure things out, I asked about education, seen about when people going for jobs and their names etc. Then you have all of the "gammon" type bullshit that then just gets away from the actual conversation.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 24, 2020

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Or....I've got no genitles. In fact none of us have.
#genitlesmatter.

That sounds more like the hashtag anti-Semites would use

#gentilesmatter

RegTheDonk · Jun 24, 2020

shmmeee said:
What help is saying All Lives Matter? What’s the motivation for saying it? Because it comes across like a spoilt child upset someone else is getting attention at best.

I know some outright racist people. They are the only ones who get visibly upset when BLM comes up. After a while if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it’s a duck.

Calling the movement BLM is always going to get some people's backs up. If the cause had been All Lives Matter there wouldn't be a reason for animosity and an excuse for bigots to kick up a fuss.

It would have been 100% inclusive and nobody would have a reason to not come on board, though maybe thats the point. Doubt the media would be interested in lots of hugging and everyone getting on, far more publicity if it creates news by highlighting differences and community tension.

Nick · Jun 24, 2020

RegTheDonk said:
Calling the movement BLM is always going to get some people's backs up. If the cause had been All Lives Matter there wouldn't be a reason for animosity and an excuse for bigots to kick up a fuss.

It would have been 100% inclusive and nobody would have a reason to not come on board, though maybe thats the point. Doubt the media would be interested in lots of hugging and everyone getting on, far more publicity if it creates news by highlighting differences and community tension.

Again that's the point. You really have to dig deep to see some young BLM protesters sat chatting with veterans by a statue and smiling and talking. Both showing plenty of respect to each other. Same as the guy who was in the army and met up with his met who was on the BLM protest.

Same with the police, there are plenty of police who do an amazing job and get on fine with people but you won't see that.

Switch ITV on in the morning, they are desperate for animosity and aggro. They try their best to get it off everybody.

shmmeee · Jun 24, 2020

RegTheDonk said:
Calling the movement BLM is always going to get some people's backs up. If the cause had been All Lives Matter there wouldn't be a reason for animosity and an excuse for bigots to kick up a fuss.

It would have been 100% inclusive and nobody would have a reason to not come on board, though maybe thats the point. Doubt the media would be interested in lots of hugging and everyone getting on, far more publicity if it creates news by highlighting differences and community tension.

Do you also think Breast Cancer Awareness should be All Cancer Awareness? Or even All Illness Awareness? Or Everyone Awareness? International People’s Day instead of International Women’s Day?

Why is it just BLM that needs to be inclusive of everyone?

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 24, 2020

RegTheDonk said:
Calling the movement BLM is always going to get some people's backs up.

Why? they do. And they haven't always.

David O'Day · Jun 24, 2020

shmmeee said:
Do you also think Breast Cancer Awareness should be All Cancer Awareness? Or even All Illness Awareness? Or Everyone Awareness? International People’s Day instead of International Women’s Day?

Why is it just BLM that needs to be inclusive of everyone?

As the guy from 5live said you don't attacked AGE UK for not looking after the middle aged.

David O'Day · Jun 24, 2020

RegTheDonk said:
Calling the movement BLM is always going to get some people's backs up. If the cause had been All Lives Matter there wouldn't be a reason for animosity and an excuse for bigots to kick up a fuss.

It would have been 100% inclusive and nobody would have a reason to not come on board, though maybe thats the point. Doubt the media would be interested in lots of hugging and everyone getting on, far more publicity if it creates news by highlighting differences and community tension.

No one is saying white lives don't matter but black lives sometimes don't seem to matter as much.

The only way anyone can feel threatened by BLM is if they are upset with not holding all the power in society.

Johnnythespider · Jun 24, 2020

RegTheDonk said:
Calling the movement BLM is always going to get some people's backs up. If the cause had been All Lives Matter there wouldn't be a reason for animosity and an excuse for bigots to kick up a fuss.

It would have been 100% inclusive and nobody would have a reason to not come on board, though maybe thats the point. Doubt the media would be interested in lots of hugging and everyone getting on, far more publicity if it creates news by highlighting differences and community tension.

Yeah, they should have asked a white person first

Nick · Jun 24, 2020

David O'Day said:
The only way anyone can feel threatened by BLM is if they are upset with not holding all the power in society.

That's bullshit and typical of you. Again you don't bring anything to the discussion, just random nonsense "you are racist" shit.

The whole BLM in Premier League matches has got a bit cringey now and it will end up like the NHS stuff where nobody knows when it can stop and it kind of just fizzles out. Give it a couple of weeks and it will just become a chore like clapping the NHS was, people will feel they still have to put on the badges to be on TV. Defeating the object of it. I can see why people will have an opinion on that, it doesn't mean that they don't want equality.

You can have issues with certain parts of something, some things that they say and things that are done while still wanting equality. It's not all or nothing.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 24, 2020

RegTheDonk said:
Calling the movement BLM is always going to get some people's backs up. If the cause had been All Lives Matter there wouldn't be a reason for animosity and an excuse for bigots to kick up a fuss.

It would have been 100% inclusive and nobody would have a reason to not come on board, though maybe thats the point. Doubt the media would be interested in lots of hugging and everyone getting on, far more publicity if it creates news by highlighting differences and community tension.

But that phrase doesn't get across the injustice and inequality for black people compared to whites in western countries. Nothing would be done.

As I've said before it could possibly have been improved with a "too" on the end but the black issue had to be front and centre for it to have any effect.

David O'Day · Jun 24, 2020

I guess it's going to have to be known as the BLM(amawl) movement

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 24, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
I really struggle to see what’s so difficult to understand about the BLM movement. I keep hearing, seeing reading stuff everywhere from white people going on like it’s some sort of power grab for people of colour to turn the tide on white people and all of a sudden have more rights than whites. I don’t understand the suspicion and resentment.

I can see the thinking here. History shows when an indigenous population show compassion it usually doesn't end well for them. This is especially true in America. Thanksgiving celebrates Native Americans taking pity on the white settlers who would have almost certainly died out were it not for that help. Then over the next few centuries that was repaid by effectively exterminating them. The Roman Empire became more forgiving towards Christians until they basically took them over.

I thinks that's why Malcolm X isn't given as much credence as MLK - arguably for him it wasn't about equality - it was about supremacy. So when you see things like BLM, Feminism, NAACP etc those are terms that could easily over time become used for supremacy but due to the historic connection with improved rights/equality it's hard to point that out without being accused of hate crimes. A bit like we see now with Israel where any criticism is just met with the standard "anti-semite" accusation.

We are of course a long, long way from that point right now though.

Nick · Jun 24, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But that phrase doesn't get across the injustice and inequality for black people compared to whites in western countries. Nothing would be done.

As I've said before it could possibly have been improved with a "too" on the end but the black issue had to be front and centre for it to have any effect.

The thing is, just the words "Black Lives Matter" doesn't really explain things anyway. I know there can't be an easy explanation in a name but like I said, when you take to the internet to look it up you will get all sorts of random stuff. Like a rabbithole.

Then you have the "If you are a silent then you are as bad as the racist" type shit that gets said.

If you put Black Lives Matter UK into Google then it comes up with stuff like this : BLMUK I assume that's the official stuff for the UK.

If you go onto the Black Lives Matter website then it is very US based about the police in the US.

Sometimes it is easier just to bury your head, I know that there is still systematic racism we don't see so how do we go about changing it?

Far too much is about America, the police, George Floyd. How do we change it in the UK?

A lot of it is just saying "that's racist", "coronavirus is racist" type stuff with no explanation and how change can happen. Deaths in police custody are racist but are the massive minority compared to white deaths in police custody.

Of course there needs to be equality, on the other hand people also need to stop labelling everything as "racist" straight away.

skybluetony176 · Jun 24, 2020

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I've not posted for several weeks as this place has become a bit of a cesspit......but for anyone still (unbelievably) struggling with the BLM vs. white lives matter slogans, have a listen to Tony Livesey (Burnley fan) from yesterdays 5 live.

BBC Radio 5 live - In Short, 'It is time, perhaps, for an uncomfortable conversation'

Now try & be nice to each other.....have a good day folks.:emoji_sunglasses:

Former editor of the Sport Newspaper, that’s THE SPORT NEWSPAPER! as in a double decker bus found on the North Pole front page headline Sport Newspaper, makes one of most sensible well thought out accurate statements on BLM Vs WLM Vs ALM heard to date. Strange times.

(Edit) Other than what Hill has had to say. Obviously.

skybluetony176 · Jun 24, 2020

Nick said:
The thing is, just the words "Black Lives Matter" doesn't really explain things anyway. I know there can't be an easy explanation in a name but like I said, when you take to the internet to look it up you will get all sorts of random stuff. Like a rabbithole.

Then you have the "If you are a silent then you are as bad as the racist" type shit that gets said.

If you put Black Lives Matter UK into Google then it comes up with stuff like this : BLMUK I assume that's the official stuff for the UK.

If you go onto the Black Lives Matter website then it is very US based about the police in the US.

Is the inequality felt by members of the BAME communities really coming as a surprise to you? Is this new news?

Ian1779 · Jun 24, 2020

Nick said:
I can see why people will have an opinion on that, it doesn't mean that they don't want equality.

Why do people necessarily HAVE to have an opinion on it and then voice it?

For example the whole situation about gender and all the different types. I don’t totally understand it (and not because I am being intentionally ignorant) but people should just be allowed to be what they want to be. I don’t have to share my opinion because it adds nothing to a debate I know nothing about.

Nick · Jun 24, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
Is the inequality felt by members of the BAME communities really coming as a surprise to you? Is this new news?

Not at all, it's just that you have to also cut through people claiming racism when it goes too far the other way (see the racist football fans chasing the innocent young black boys). Of course there is the horrible racism that you see where people are straight up racist, I will openly say there's far more stuff that goes on in the background that isn't seen which is what people need to know about. People will throw stats about to suit as well.

All I mean is that there's so much political agenda, media spin, propaganda that it's no surprise people are confused recently. Much the same as brexit.

Nick · Jun 24, 2020

Ian1779 said:
Why do people necessarily HAVE to have an opinion on it and then voice it?

The other option is that people just stay quiet and bury their heads and nothing changes I guess.

If nobody had a view on the stuff in broadgate the other week and shared their opinion it may have got messy. That goes for the actual racist c**t(s) and the lads flashing knives.

So much of it is opinion, social media, actual media etc. Some people need to be explained in the right way, I know it's not the same but look at the Prince William stuff and mental health where he gets players in a dressing room and they are all just open. That was a real eye opener.

I'd probably learn ten times more from something like that than everything that's politics and agenda driven.

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