Nick
Administrator
Mainly him and the Gammon stuff. Then there's the implication that if you question anything you don't want change.
I'm not reading this lot again!!
Probably bored off.
what are you on about now for fucks sake?
I have been arguing with Nick all morning, it's not just me disagreeing with him, he's also disagreeing with me, that's debate.
I doubt he's getting stressed about it, I'm certainly not.
I'm not reading this lot again!!
So what you're bacially saying is you have beef with David O'DayNot as if he provided any constructive input, just effectively shouted racist or gammon over and over.
Trying to make me look like an idiot when literally 5 minutes later you concede indirectly to the very point I was just making.
There is very limited debate on here. Same with the corona thread. It is just a tory bashing wank fest.
Nick has been very balanced and whilst probably not being as politically invested as most of you, has given a fair account. I think many of you have treated him like shit to be honest. You would be mistaken for thinking he actually had said something racist given some of the overblown reactions on here.
So what you're bacially saying is you have beef with David O'Day
You know, much of this is bollocks.Nah, I have an issue with
"You are part of the problem"
"It should be like a SISU thread where people just nod and agree"
"White silence is violence" (Not so much on here)
Even when I suggested that some of it might be virtue signalling there was disgust.
Any critisism of Black Lives Matter was frowned upon because they were just fighting for change. Don't mention them walking on the M6 etc etc.
As soon as the Fat White knobheads with union jack tattoos come out then it's a disgrace, thugs, extremists, far right etc.
Funny thing is, the majority of people are all over the Brexit / Corona thread because it's politics. Live and breath the fucking stuff. "Oh which MP can I look to blame", "Which manifesto can I look to for advice"?, "Oh people commit crime because of the government and lack of things to do"
People are far too blinded by politics and the lefty / righty / remainer/ brexiteer / whataboutery / gammon bullshit, at least when it comes to CCFC I am happy to admit I am massively biased.
As soon as people start making it the right / left shite or give it the "you are deflecting for the left / right" it's pointless.
It's not that hard to point out that people can be massive pricks regardless, there's no actual constructive discussion in this thread about how to change or go forward because everybody wants to make it about what a politician said or did. Fuck that.
Why don't you go first ?You know, much of this is bollocks.
But, again, this is an endless circle. it's clear I won't change your view (and for that matter, it's unlikely you'd change mine) so why are we bothering? Why don't we just let it drop instead of repeating the same again, and obliging people to jump in, in response?
Well, I'm doing the jumping in and responding after the same is repeated time and time again. More than happy to go for a mutual pact. Tried to suggest that all morning before biting.Why don't you go first ?
You know, much of this is bollocks.
If Rees Mogg were to say that Black Lives Matter, he supports the cause of racial equality, then that would be absolutely fine, good, and progress. That wouldn't alter the fact that he is a reactionary anti-abortionist elsewhere in his views.
As has been pointed out several times, there is absolutely nothing wrong in agreeing with the phrase Black Lives Matter. because they do. There's nothing wrong with being part of a movement either and, in fact, it's political to try and link me, then, as a reactionary tofu loving Communist / Marxist who has shrines to Mao and Stalin in his garden.
What is virtue signalling anyway? it's an empty phrase to continue the luddite status quo. It's as meaningless a phrase as gammon, snowflake.
Even the very statement that it's not political is, well... political! How society functions is political, the choices it makes are political. I repeat, what is more politcal than the subjugation of black men and women? It's as political as it gets.
But, again, this is an endless circle. it's clear I won't change your view (and for that matter, it's unlikely you'd change mine) so why are we bothering? Why don't we just let it drop instead of repeating the same again, and obliging people to jump in, in response?
I'll go first, I'm going to stop and let you have the last word, as you clearly want it so much.Yeah you have some nice words and everything to patronise.
There are lots of phrases that can support the cause of racial equality, I don't doubt that it needs looking into but maybe not pick a phrase thought up by somebody using it to push political views and trying to raise a few quid. It must just be a massive coincidence at how similar they are.
Yeah, some posh prick could adjust article 67 Point 2 in the manifesto to get people hard but let's be realistic. The politicians will do what the politicians want to do and what suits them.
If people are jumping onto a movement because it's the movement that's all over the TV at that moment then it's a bit of a bandwagon, like when I compare it to the NHS clapping. It dilutes and distracts away from the actual point. I don't think racial equality is a bandwagon, people live it every day and that's what needs to be sorted. It won't when people just want to use it as a front for political point scoring though back and forth, righty lefty.
How much of this thread is constructive? How much of it is discussing things that could be actually changed or done in the real world for people like us who couldn't give a shit about the righty / lefty stuff. I don't want to be told that because I ask questions I am part of the problem or my silence is violence, whenever I ask about what can be done it's then swiftly turned to politicians.
I was hoping for some constructive discussion. Some eye openers, there has been a few posts that have but a lot of it is where people are too obsessed with political bias.
oh god, not compared to your intellectul drivel, no.Well, I'm doing the jumping in and responding after the same is repeated time and time again. More than happy to go for a mutual pact. Tried to suggest that all morning before biting.
Got anything to add that's interesting or worthwhile?
Damn those intellectuals!oh god, not compared to your intellectul drivel, no.
Is that the best you can do ? Sadly for you I can separate my professional duties from this .Damn those intellectuals!
Fancy having a brain eh, that's a real insult... especially from a teacher. I bet people at school love you when you insult the talented students and tell them to be less impressive.
Probably not worth getting too worked up about the GoFundMe. Looking at the number of donations it equates to about 0.05% of the population donating.It seems things have been deflected right into a go fund me.
Not really worked up, just pointing out the aim of just happening to have things in the same name.Probably not worth getting too worked up about the GoFundMe. Looking at the number of donations it equates to about 0.05% of the population donating.
How much of this thread is constructive? How much of it is discussing things that could be actually changed or done in the real world for people like us who couldn't give a shit about the righty / lefty stuff. I don't want to be told that because I ask questions I am part of the problem or my silence is violence, whenever I ask about what can be done it's then swiftly turned to politicians.
I think it's disingenuous to say that you're only interested in constructive real-world change, when the overwhelming majority of the questions you ask are geared towards undermining the Black Lives Matter movement in some way. I think you've got some valid concerns about some of the more extremist parts of BLM - and that's fine! - but if you really care about racial justice, is it more important to tune that stuff out, or spend several pages complaining about it online? Stuff like the leftie group using the Black Lives Matter name to advance their agenda is the kind of thing which is very easy to ignore if you're sympathetic to the anti-racism cause. And on the other hand, if you'd rather not do anything about racism, it's one of those dealbreaker things that proves you're completely justified in ignoring the whole thing. You seem to me like you're more in the latter camp - is it actually the case that you're not really interested in joining any anti-racism movement, because to be honest you think the whole thing's a bit overblown and you'd rather just see people try and get along instead? I don't think you have to be afraid to express that opinion, certainly not on here.
Certainly it's down to government to set the laws and the police to enforce them. Just as much the public need to obay them. People are responsible for their own actions - nobody forces them to go to a rave.no, but politics govern our lives, it's inescapable. Racism in on the rise, I'm not responsible but I can't influence the whole of society, politicians can.
I haven't been to an illegal rave but I can't stop people, politicians can. They put enough effort into stopping them in the 80s.
It's not just "using a name". That's the thing, if it was some chancers who rush to make a quick buck I could understand.
The black lives matter thing is massively overblown, racial equality isn't. My point has been that we hear about politicians, America etc but a lot of it isn't going to make the majority of people understand. It's causing more division because of the politics.
People getting on won't change things but having a constructive discussion will at least start to open people's eyes to things so they can think. (Rather than somebody telling me im part of the problem for example). It's not burying heads or denying things happen, it's opening eyes and minds to it properly.
I've been trying to have constructive discussion, made suggestions etc.
I'm not going to argue with most of that. But I do think it's interesting that you take offense to being told you're part of the problem. Personally I don't have any issue with being told that, and find that it's been quite useful in terms of opening my eyes and mind to it properly. Anyway! On with the constructive discussion....right?
And it's daft things making issues out of non-issues which are pouring petrol on the flames, like the point ROS brought up about the PFA study.
I'm not going to argue with most of that. But I do think it's interesting that you take offense to being told you're part of the problem. Personally I don't have any issue with being told that, and find that it's been quite useful in terms of opening my eyes and mind to it properly. Anyway! On with the constructive discussion....right?
I've got no issue in being told that if there's an explanation as to why. When asked, they don't have any answers to it.This is why change won't happen. By you basically telling someone they are part of the racism problem when they have done nothing wrong. What does that do?
For most people that puts them off and pushes them in the opposite direction.
The Tory bashing in the corona thread is justified. Unless you want to argue for the death rate?Trying to make me look like an idiot when literally 5 minutes later you concede indirectly to the very point I was just making.
There is very limited debate on here. Same with the corona thread. It is just a tory bashing wank fest.
Nick has been very balanced and whilst probably not being as politically invested as most of you, has given a fair account. I think many of you have treated him like shit to be honest. You would be mistaken for thinking he actually had said something racist given some of the overblown reactions on here.
This is why change won't happen. By you basically telling someone they are part of the racism problem when they have done nothing wrong. What does that do?
For most people that puts them off and pushes them in the opposite direction.
This is why change won't happen. By you basically telling someone they are part of the racism problem when they have done nothing wrong. What does that do?
For most people that puts them off and pushes them in the opposite direction.
@Nick You've given it a really good go but I would honestly save yourself the time and stress.
There is pretty much one opinion here and if you don't agree with it, even if you try to be balanced and have dialogue, you find yourself having to defend yourself in countless arguments. That's why many people don't bother any more.
I don't think I'm racist, but if someone told me something I was doing was then I'd definitely listen up, I wouldn't just start asking "why am I being asked to apologise for being white?" and feel like going the opposite direction (which I assume means trying to be more racist?), that makes no sense. If someone says that someone or something is part of the problem then the first thing to do is listen, even though it might be uncomfortable, then make your mind up, not just automatically think its some kind of dig at white people & get all defensive. Thats nothing to do with BLM, left, right, just the bare minimum people can do if they really are genuine about wanting some changes.
I think it's a shame if people are that fragile about it. Not that I'm some kind of model example, but when people have told me I'm part of the problem, I didn't assume they were saying I was directly responsible for racism, or was a card-carrying racist. Yeah, maybe it's a bit of a shock to the system at first, maybe even unpleasant for some people, but it does knock you out of your complacency - you would hope most people should be able to handle that. Generally speaking it's hard for change to happen if people don't examine their own way of thinking.
This is a quite a patronising approach TBH. It’s normal especially for men to want to offer a solution to a problem given to them. Simply saying “examine your thinking” is a cop out, OK I’ve examined and think it’s great what now?
We are at a point in racial justice where it’s not easy to see the next steps, I don’t think castigating people who ask where next as cowards or lazy or worse racists is the right approach.
Social justice movements need to be kinder. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Exactly what I've been trying to say but done it better.
If because I'm white and my silence is violence, explain things to me. Educate me. If I ask questions, answer them constructively.
It's almost as if the overall aim has been to divide and stir things up.
Theres been a change in the last few years of activists refusing to argue their point or explain things and instead telling people to educate themselves or do the work or whatever. It’s just lazy. If you want to improve the world you need to put the hard yards in or leave it for someone who will. So many examples of people having conversations changing minds. I doubt there’s many of people being shamed into really changing their mind.
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