George Floyd (21 Viewers)

chiefdave · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
But nobody has told me why or gone into details? It's just people firing that off, shouting racist at everything.

It quite literally is a dig used at White People.

Isn't it just the idea that as a white person you can't be passively anti-racist? Essentially you can be actively racist, passively racist or actively anti-racist. Think that's what is meant.

So to give an example you hear someone calling an opposition player the n-word. As a white person you might think thats disgusting and in your own mind you've ticked the box as anti-racist because you don't agree with them. You only consider yourself racist if you either join in or you agree with them.

What this is saying is that your silence enables the racism and if you are truly anti-racist you intervene.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

chiefdave said:
Isn't it just the idea that as a white person you can't be passively anti-racist? Essentially you can be actively racist, passively racist or actively anti-racist. Think that's what is meant.

So to give an example you hear someone calling an opposition player the n-word. As a white person you might think thats disgusting and in your own mind you've ticked the box as anti-racist because you don't agree with them. You only consider yourself racist if you either join in or you agree with them.

What this is saying is that your silence enables the racism and if you are truly anti-racist you intervene.

Does that only apply to white people? I mean there are a lot of different factors surrounding that as to whether somebody would intervene. Does it make them to blame or a bad person? I don't think it does.

SBT · Jul 2, 2020

shmmeee said:
This is a quite a patronising approach TBH. It’s normal especially for men to want to offer a solution to a problem given to them. Simply saying “examine your thinking” is a cop out, OK I’ve examined and think it’s great what now?

We are at a point in racial justice where it’s not easy to see the next steps, I don’t think castigating people who ask where next as cowards or lazy or worse racists is the right approach.

Social justice movements need to be kinder. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

I didn't mean to be patronising, so I'm sorry it came across that way. I haven't called anyone a coward or a racist, and I don't think anyone who gets asked if they're unwittingly part of the problem should assume that's how they're being viewed. No-one's being accused of anything they should be terrified of. Every single protest movement is accompanied by hordes of bystanders who say they would have got involved if only it was packaged in a more friendly or sanitized way, and then offer token support after the fact, when someone else has done the hard work for them. Lord knows I've done that enough times. I'm just not sure if that's going to move the needle on something as big as racial justice, so you'll have to forgive me for making you feel uncomfortable.

chiefdave · Jul 2, 2020

shmmeee said:
This is a quite a patronising approach TBH. It’s normal especially for men to want to offer a solution to a problem given to them. Simply saying “examine your thinking” is a cop out, OK I’ve examined and think it’s great what now?

Completely agree with this. Plus rather than try to explain to someone why they should change their opinion the preferred option seems to be just start shouting and complaining they're wrong.

Think there's also an issue where even those that will listen to a proposed solution, like with everything these days, just want a soundbite. If you do this racism will be 'fixed' when the reality is it's a massively complex issue that will require a complex solution. The other part to that is if you give people something they can do as individuals they reject it as it won't solve the whole issue.

shmmeee · Jul 2, 2020

Can we all agree this may be the dumbest tweet on this topic?

chiefdave · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Does that only apply to white people? I mean there are a lot of different factors surrounding that as to whether somebody would intervene. Does it make them to blame or a bad person? I don't think it does.

This is just my guess but I'd assume the idea is if you're black you will have been the target of racism but if you're white that's unlikely, at least in the UK.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

chiefdave said:
This is just my guess but I'd assume the idea is if you're black you will have been the target of racism but if you're white that's unlikely, at least in the UK.

That sounds like something from Stan collymore

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Would I expect somebody to look into a phrase they are saying and shouting? I probably would but I can understand why people haven't. Would I expect people to try and figure things out for themselves? Why not?

Exactly. The PHRASE. So if you think about the phrase 'black lives matter' and do I agree with it - yes I do.

When you're at the football and start shouting "Sky Blue Army" do you stop and say "hang on lads - we'd best look into that phrase to make sure there isn't a actual Sky Blue Army that exists somewhere that disagrees with the sentiment with which we mean it?"

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
More like I am saying that I am not going to rely on some pricks in London who live in a completely different world to shape everything for me (good or bad)..

But they do though. They decided on the planning laws that allowed your house to be built. They approved the roads and railways you use to travel. They set up the infrastructure that gives you running water, gas and electricity. They decided you'd be allowed to drive a car on those roads. They decided to invest in street lighting to make the streets safer for you to walk at night. They decide what is 'clean air'. They decided what food is and isn't safe to eat and how it should be prepared, stored and packaged. They decided what you were taught at school. Large employers provide jobs in areas often where politics has decided where to offer then incentives to set up there while other areas fall into decay because their's are taken away.

Whether you like it or not, the life you lead now has been influenced at pretty much every level by politics and political decisions.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2020

Crystal Palace distance themselves from the official Black Lives Matter campaign

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Exactly. The PHRASE. So if you think about the phrase 'black lives matter' and do I agree with it - yes I do.

When you're at the football and start shouting "Sky Blue Army" do you stop and say "hang on lads - we'd best look into that phrase to make sure there isn't a actual Sky Blue Army that exists somewhere that disagrees with the sentiment with which we mean it?"

I mean, I agree with lots of phrases but that one just happens to have been setup and pushed by somebody for their own gain.

If there was a political group called sky blue army and the chant was formed by them then I guess it would be different.

Plenty of phrases that could be used to be against racism.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But they do though. They decided on the planning laws that allowed your house to be built. They approved the roads and railways you use to travel. They set up the infrastructure that gives you running water, gas and electricity. They decided you'd be allowed to drive a car on those roads. They decided to invest in street lighting to make the streets safer for you to walk at night. They decide what is 'clean air'. They decided what food is and isn't safe to eat and how it should be prepared, stored and packaged. They decided what you were taught at school. Large employers provide jobs in areas often where politics has decided where to offer then incentives to set up there while other areas fall into decay because their's are taken away.

Whether you like it or not, the life you lead now has been influenced at pretty much every level by politics and political decisions.

I'd better stop every time I make a decision, what to think, what to say and check if a political party agrees with me then.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
I'd better stop every time I make a decision, what to think, what to say and check if a political party agrees with me then.

Isn't that sort of what you're advocating though - people look into things more before they blindly do or follow them? You may come up with a phrase totally independently and use it, yet someone else has already used it and attached other aims to it. Yet according to the timeline what you appear to have done is copied their phrase and not looked into it enough.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Isn't that sort of what you're advocating though - people look into things more before they blindly do or follow them? You may come up with a phrase totally independently and use it, yet someone else has already used it and attached other aims to it. Yet according to the timeline what you appear to have done is copied their phrase and not looked into it enough.

I've never stopped to think "what would my local labour candidate say" when making a decision?

The same as if something happens to me I haven't looked to say "I blame this politician".

The point that seems to be missed is that it was the same people that came up with the phrase that have attached aims to it.

The phrase isn't independent from the aims and politics.

chiefdave · Jul 2, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Crystal Palace distance themselves from the official Black Lives Matter campaign

Black Lives Matter: England players to wear logo v West Indies

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
I'd better stop every time I make a decision, what to think, what to say and check if a political party agrees with me then.

No. You're framing politics as the Westminister bubble and the two main parties.
Politics encapsulates far more than that and operates on many more levels.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
No. You're framing politics as the Westminister bubble and the two main parties.
Politics encapsulates far more than that and operates on many more levels.

I do grasp that, the discussions always end up about the Westminster bubble and right / left and who can be blamed.

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
I do grasp that, the discussions always end up about the Westminster bubble and right / left and who can be blamed.

I'm not sure how you can avoid it in the case of the corona virus thread to be honest.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
I'm not sure how you can avoid it in the case of the corona virus thread to be honest.

I just try to avoid that thread generally, same as the Brexit one.

shmmeee · Jul 2, 2020

All I’ve been trying to say.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

shmmeee said:
All I’ve been trying to say.

So why isn't "treat people as you want to be treated" or another phrase, probably better.

Nothing was hijacked because it was already there and in place ready for the media storm.

It's not a new thing.

shmmeee · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
So why isn't "treat people as you want to be treated" or another phrase, probably better.

Nothing was hijacked because it was already there and in place ready for the media storm.

It's not a new thing.

Because firstly “treat people as you want to be treated” is a fucking terrible phrase when masochists exist, and secondly it’s not what they want to say. They want to say that black lives matter.

I can’t be jarred going round in circles again with this TBh.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

shmmeee said:
Because firstly “treat people as you want to be treated” is a fucking terrible phrase when masochists exist, and secondly it’s not what they want to say. They want to say that black lives matter.

I can’t be jarred going round in circles again with this TBh.

It was an example of a phrase.

it is very shit.

I mean were many people saying black lives matter a few months ago before George flloyd?

They want to say the phrase they have seen online and in the media, just a coincidence with what else uses the phrase and has done for years? They want to say that exact phrase because that's what they have had put in front of them.

shmmeee · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
It was an example of a phrase.
it is very shit.

I mean were many people saying black lives matter a few months ago before George flloyd?

They want to say the phrase they have seen online and in the media, just a coincidence with what else uses the phrase and has done for years? They want to say that exact phrase because that's what they have had put in front of them.

Yes! It’s been in constant use to protest black people dying since 2014, here: History of the hashtag #BlackLivesMatter: Social activism on Twitter

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
It was an example of a phrase.
it is very shit.

I mean were many people saying black lives matter a few months ago before George flloyd?

They want to say the phrase they have seen online and in the media, just a coincidence with what else uses the phrase and has done for years? They want to say that exact phrase because that's what they have had put in front of them.

They've been saying it for years. The George Floyd death just resonated round the world. Sometimes one event stands out more than.others and captures the attention of the public.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
They've been saying it for years. The George Floyd death just resonated round the world. Sometimes one event stands out more than.others and captures the attention of the public.

Really? Who's "they?" Much in the UK? A mixed race guy died here a couple of years ago at the hands of the police and I can't remember hearing it?

Who started it again?

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Really? Who's "they?"

loads of people. Maybe not so much in this country but in the States.
It's been around since Trayvon Martin was killed and George Zimmerman got off with it

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
loads of people. Maybe not so much in this country but in the States.
It's been around since Trayvon Martin was killed and George Zimmerman got off with it

Ok so it's an import from the states to the UK chapter?

It's been around since the founders founded it and pushed it and made it take off.

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Ok so it's an import from the states to the UK chapter?

Well the George Floyd murder was in the States. But it resonated with.people and especially a lot of black.people.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
Well the George Floyd murder was in the States. But it resonated with.people and especially a lot of black.people.

People quoting stats from the us, marching round Coventry because of a guy in the US but most couldn't tell you anything about people who have been killed by police in Coventry.

Then black lives matter is rammed down throats that just happens to have organisations and political parties in the same name that have been going for years?

People have huge wooden spoons to stir things to.

It's really the same as Tommy Robinson getting people worked up

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
People quoting stats from the us, marching round Coventry because of a guy in the US but most couldn't tell you anything about people who have been killed by police in Coventry.

Then black lives matter is rammed down throats that just happens to have organisations and political parties in the same name that have been going for years?

People have huge wooden spoons to stir things to.

It's really the same as Tommy Robinson getting people worked up

Like Tommy Robinson! Fucking hell!
You're literally telling black.people who got angry watching pictures of a racist murder they're wrong!

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
Like Tommy Robinson! Fucking hell!

Just the other end of the spectrum but more sly and cleverer.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
Like Tommy Robinson! Fucking hell!
You're literally telling black.people who got angry watching pictures of a racist murder they're wrong!

Not much different to people angry with muslim sex gangs gravitating towards Tommy Robinson.

It isn't the "normal" people, it isn't the people who have had years of issues. It's the manipulative people behind it. It's the people who are seeing people are angry with a murder and manipulating the situation to suit their agendas.

Tommy Robinson couldn't really give a shit about the victims of sex gangs, he wanted to push his "politics" and make a few quid.

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Just the other end of the spectrum but more sly and cleverer.

Not at all. You're telling sections of the black community they're dealing with racism wrong!

chiefdave · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
A mixed race guy died here a couple of years ago at the hands of the police and I can't remember hearing it?

In Cov? Who are you referring to?

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