Goodbye CCFC and Sky Blues Talk (3 Viewers)

torchomatic · Jun 24, 2013

No, I get that. However, I don't see what purpose NOPM can serve apart from harming the Club even more by starving it of income. SISU seem perfectly happy to build up debt and suffer loss after loss so NOPM won't hurt them in the slightest.

I just hope those who advocate NOPM won't be hypocritical and criticise Pressley or the Club for the playing squad come August. Because, it ain't gonna be pretty.

Nonleagueherewecome said:
The point is, we don't trust SISU for a reason, y'know?! We haven't taken a dislike to them because they looked at us a bit funny once or because they always get us socks for Christmas. They lie, constantly-this we do know-and I'm certain that they don't give the slightest shit about the supporters or the club. Their end-game is to realise the potential value of the arena, but not to the benefit of CCFC, I am absolutely certain of that. I don't think NOPM is the slightest bit counter-productive as we've reached a stage under these owners which is utterly beyond recovery.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 24, 2013

torchomatic said:
I just hope those who advocate NOPM won't be hypocritical and criticise Pressley or the Club for the playing squad come August. Because, it ain't gonna be pretty.

Yeah, as long as OK with the possible consequences (maybe no club full stop being one of them!) then I have no problem with people deciding they can't give the club any more money.

If, however, they seem surprised rather than sad at those consequences, I'll be questioning their sanity!

torchomatic · Jun 24, 2013

Absolutely, people are free to do as they choose. They just need to think of the possible consequences.

Astute · Jun 24, 2013

torchomatic said:
No, I get that. However, I don't see what purpose NOPM can serve apart from harming the Club even more by starving it of income. SISU seem perfectly happy to build up debt and suffer loss after loss so NOPM won't hurt them in the slightest.

If they are happy to make a loss why did they sell our decent players that would have given us a chance of promotion from the Championship? Why wouldn't they even pay what they saw was a decent rent for the Ricoh?

RPHunt · Jun 24, 2013

torchomatic said:
No, I get that. However, I don't see what purpose NOPM can serve apart from harming the Club even more by starving it of income. SISU seem perfectly happy to build up debt and suffer loss after loss so NOPM won't hurt them in the slightest.

I just hope those who advocate NOPM won't be hypocritical and criticise Pressley or the Club for the playing squad come August. Because, it ain't gonna be pretty.

So, NOPM will harm the club but won't hurt SISU in the slightest because SISU are happy to build up debt?

Are you so desperate to keep up your quota of 25 posts per hour that you are prepared to post any old rubbish, no matter how contradictory?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 24, 2013

Astute said:
If they are happy to make a loss why did they sell our decent players that would have given us a chance of promotion from the Championship? Why wouldn't they even pay what they saw was a decent rent for the Ricoh?

They will only be happy if ACL go bust as they always hoped. Such is their hubris that they will be happy to keep funding losses to try and make it happen.

sky blue john · Jun 24, 2013

Torch and NW sisu have already cut their cloth in terms of budget for this season !!!
And anyone with half an ounce of brain will realize we will be lucky to stay in division one !!!!

torchomatic · Jun 24, 2013

Ditto anyone who think NOPM will be doing the Club any favours.

sky blue john said:
And anyone with half an ounce of brain will realize we will be lucky to stay in division one !!!!

wingy · Jun 24, 2013

sky blue john said:
Torch and NW sisu have already cut their cloth in terms of budget for this season !!!
And anyone with half an ounce of brain will realize we will be lucky to stay in division one !!!!

If we don't play at the RICOH that playing budget will tip us back into Embargo the moment we come out.

torchomatic · Jun 24, 2013

So why not tell me how NOPM is going to "help" Coventry City Football Club? Convince me. Then maybe I'll scream "death to the infidels" with the rest of you.

RPHunt said:
So, NOPM will harm the club but won't hurt SISU in the slightest because SISU are happy to build up debt?

Are you so desperate to keep up your quota of 25 posts per hour that you are prepared to post any old rubbish, no matter how contradictory?

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 24, 2013

torchomatic said:
So why not tell me how NOPM is going to "help" Coventry City Football Club? Convince me. Then maybe I'll scream "death to the infidels" with the rest of you.

I will try

We need to call out the truth from Sisu, why are they involved?

What do we know?

No one can understand why they are involved? It makes no sense financially, it makes no sense for their brand and all parties including most of the fans have lost complete trust that they care about the future success of their football club

They have changed their priorities over the last 5 years leading us from lower championship status to lower league 1 status

They have no credibility with potential partners in Ccc, Alan Higgs or acl

There is no credible plan for next season's home games

There are parties interested in buying the ownership of the football club

Sisu have covered the losses made by the club somehow

What will nopm campaign mean?

Assuming Ccfc come out of admin and play outside of coventry this season.

Very low home crowds, abuse, bad publicity and zero chance of success - highly likely liquidation

Quick death and possible future growth depending on new investors

If playing at Ricoh - much slower death gradually ending up in the same place

In summary

Nopm will hasten the removal of Sisu as owners, however the danger is no football club to follow!!

Nonleagueherewecome · Jun 24, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's all redundant after the event, but I can't help but notice some of those quickest to shout down all voices now are the same voices who were happy to call others morons for pointing out what we were letting ourselves in for.

Pointless in the immediate scheme of things, as it's better people realise ruthless investment funds aren't great later than not at all, but does give me concern that some of those self same people then shout down any message of caution about us not throwing ourselves at any old munter who appears on the scene during the breakup.

Or we might be here again in 5 years time, better to learn from the past and not throw ourselves at just anybody else, surely, but to have some belief in ourselves to deserve more than munters?

What, like Otium you mean? What a bunch of mother-muntha's they are!

Nonleagueherewecome · Jun 24, 2013

wingy said:
What happened to them ?

I think they died in the Great Ricoh Fire of 2013..

Nonleagueherewecome · Jun 24, 2013

torchomatic said:
So why not tell me how NOPM is going to "help" Coventry City Football Club? Convince me. Then maybe I'll scream "death to the infidels" with the rest of you.

By helping to force out terrible owners and giving us hope of a future that is impossible whilst they remain. At the very least making it as hard as possible for them to stay long-term, because lets face it, we aren't hitting the business cycle up-curve for a very long time whilst they remain.

Not that I'm a member of the NOPM campaign-I might yet go to some games still. But only in the way that a junkie keeps going back for "one last score"! But it's important to distinguish between whether we are in Coventry or not: I don't think any supporters should go if we aren't.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 24, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
By helping to force out terrible owners and giving us hope of a future that is impossible whilst they remain. At the very least making it as hard as possible for them to stay long-term, because lets face it, we aren't hitting the business cycle up-curve for a very long time whilst they remain.

Not that I'm a member of the NOPM campaign-I might yet go to some games still. But only in the way that a junkie keeps going back for "one last score"! But it's important to distinguish between whether we are in Coventry or not: I don't think any supporters should go if we aren't.

Agree if we aren't but it's utter suicide if we are as it makes it a harder job for whoever ultimately replaces SISU if we're in the fourth tier or God forbid lower which is where we could end up if everybody actually stuck to such a campaign.

Nonleagueherewecome · Jun 24, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Agree if we aren't but it's utter suicide if we are as it makes it a harder job for whoever ultimately replaces SISU if we're in the fourth tier or God forbid lower which is where we could end up if everybody actually stuck to such a campaign.

And I'd still take relegation if it meant SISU got the hell out. I'd take two, frankly!

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 24, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
And I'd still take relegation if it meant SISU got the hell out. I'd take two, frankly!

Really? They're more likely to go if we're doing better as it becomes an easier sale.

Nonleagueherewecome · Jun 24, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Really? They're more likely to go if we're doing better as it becomes an easier sale.

But I just can't see them doing well. SISU carry the stench of death about them, it's seeped into the club's culture.

RPHunt · Jun 24, 2013

torchomatic said:
So why not tell me how NOPM is going to "help" Coventry City Football Club? Convince me. Then maybe I'll scream "death to the infidels" with the rest of you.

It depends on what your definition of the "club" is.

Mine is that of a an experience shared with a community of like minded people, with shared memories and expectations. Owners, players, even stadiums can come and go but the essential part of the club is the community. Money, or lack of it, will not change that essential.

By my definition, the club would survive a boycott and the only casualties would be owners, who have to pay to sustain their own warped vision of what the club is, and supporters smug enough to believe handing over a few pounds to those owners makes them part of that club.

torchomatic · Jun 24, 2013

Honestly? Wow, not something I'd wish for.

Nonleagueherewecome said:
And I'd still take relegation if it meant SISU got the hell out. I'd take two, frankly!

torchomatic · Jun 24, 2013

I agree. I don't think any supporter should go if we aren't in Coventry. However, I won't have a go at those who do and as you know I'm not going if we aren't at the Ricoh.

As for NOPM, just don't get it and I'll never support it, which will ultimately mean that I won't support the Trust if they adopt it.

Nonleagueherewecome said:
By helping to force out terrible owners and giving us hope of a future that is impossible whilst they remain. At the very least making it as hard as possible for them to stay long-term, because lets face it, we aren't hitting the business cycle up-curve for a very long time whilst they remain.

Not that I'm a member of the NOPM campaign-I might yet go to some games still. But only in the way that a junkie keeps going back for "one last score"! But it's important to distinguish between whether we are in Coventry or not: I don't think any supporters should go if we aren't.

Jack Griffin · Jun 24, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
And I'd still take relegation if it meant SISU got the hell out. I'd take two, frankly!

I think they'll be happy to take relegation for a few years, because it would mean the club cost less to run.

With them it is all about what it costs to run, once they're at breakeven (if they ain't already for the group) then the sale price goes up.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 24, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
But I just can't see them doing well. SISU carry the stench of death about them, it's seeped into the club's culture.

Yes but if we help drive the club to fail then we are doing SISU's work for them. If we turned up at the Ricoh in big numbers and thereby ensured a high turnover on that basis alone, our chances of succeeding would be vastly improved.

torchomatic · Jun 24, 2013

So then, by your "definition" the club will survive without money from fans like you who aren't "smug enough" to go and support their Club. What if it doesn't survive and the NOPM campaign contributes?

RPHunt said:
It depends on what your definition of the "club" is.

Mine is that of a an experience shared with a community of like minded people, with shared memories and expectations. Owners, players, even stadiums can come and go but the essential part of the club is the community. Money, or lack of it, will not change that essential.

By my definition, the club would survive a boycott and the only casualties would be owners, who have to pay to sustain their own warped vision of what the club is, and supporters smug enough to believe handing over a few pounds to those owners makes them part of that club.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Jun 24, 2013

torchomatic said:
I agree. I don't think any supporter should go if we aren't in Coventry. However, I won't have a go at those who do and as you know I'm not going if we aren't at the Ricoh.

As for NOPM, just don't get it and I'll never support it, which will ultimately mean that I won't support the Trust if they adopt it.

You're as confused as I am and the rest youve just said you wont go if we are not in Coventry so then you wont be giving then any money,then you say you cant support NOPM:facepalm:

SkyBlueRuffian · Jun 24, 2013

13 pages for a cry baby wuss Cov fan, Jesus?

torchomatic · Jun 24, 2013

No, I'm not going to see City if they don't play at the Ricoh. Nothing to do with NOPM but all to do with the fact that we should play in Coventry. However, if we do play at the Ricoh then I will get my season tickets, my shirts, etc. And of course, there are those who say they won't go even if we are at the Ricoh as they believe this will "starve" SISU out. This, I don't agree with. It will just stave Coventry City and ultimately damage CCFC.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
You're as confused as I am and the rest youve just said you wont go if we are not in Coventry so then you wont be giving then any money,then you say you cant support NOPM:facepalm:

Nonleagueherewecome · Jun 24, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
I think they'll be happy to take relegation for a few years, because it would mean the club cost less to run.

With them it is all about what it costs to run, once they're at breakeven (if they ain't already for the group) then the sale price goes up.

With them, I have no idea what it's about, really...I'm still assuming that we're some sort of tax loss adjuster that suits their portfolio over-all. In which case I guess it doesn't matter how bad it gets for them at CCFC!

Nonleagueherewecome · Jun 24, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Yes but if we help drive the club to fail then we are doing SISU's work for them. If we turned up at the Ricoh in big numbers and thereby ensured a high turnover on that basis alone, our chances of succeeding would be vastly improved.

Our chances of playing played for suckers by owners who aren't serious about matters on the pitch would be the only thing that's increased. Not going to happen anyway, is it? In the chicken-egg success/support cycle at a football club, it's fair to say that it never ever starts with the firm foundation of owners who have utterly alienated the core support :facepalm:

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 24, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
Our chances of playing played for suckers by owners who aren't serious about matters on the pitch would be the only thing that's increased. Not going to happen anyway, is it? In the chicken-egg success/support cycle at a football club, it's fair to say that it never ever starts with the firm foundation of owners who have utterly alienated the core support :facepalm:

If we half filled the Ricoh all season we would have one of the league's biggest turnovers.

Jack Griffin · Jun 24, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
With them, I have no idea what it's about, really...I'm still assuming that we're some sort of tax loss adjuster that suits their portfolio over-all. In which case I guess it doesn't matter how bad it gets for them at CCFC!

In outline this is the way distressed debt works..

1) Buy £20M debt at 1p in the £ - cost £200K
2) Spend £3M to run the company in debt for 10 years
3) Restructure company so it no longer makes a loss
....(it will be a shadow of former self at the end of this time)
4) Sell £23.2M debt for 30p in the £ - £6.96M
5) Investment £3.2M, sales £6.96M, profit £3.76M in 10 years
6) Now someone else has the debt,nice!

Of course it isn't that simple, but that shows the essential mechanics..

lordsummerisle · Jun 24, 2013

SkyBlueRuffian said:
13 pages for a cry baby wuss Cov fan, Jesus?

I know, and he hasn't even had the good grace to stay fucked off.

With his track record with telling the truth he must be Tim Fisher.

A rite of passage on here to be called Tim Fisher, though may sadly be too late for him.

Nonleagueherewecome · Jun 24, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
If we half filled the Ricoh all season we would have one of the league's biggest turnovers.

And that is likely because we have been ran so well and treated so generously by our owners..come off it. At some point you have to draw a line in the sand when you're getting terrible service and treated so badly. That point for me is now, wherever we play. It does cost money to buy a ticket, you know...SISU don't have a God-given right to my loyalty!

hill83 · Jun 24, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
And that is likely because we have been ran so well and treated so generously by our owners..come off it. At some point you have to draw a line in the sand when you're getting terrible service and treated so badly. That point for me is now, wherever we play. It does cost money to buy a ticket, you know...SISU don't have a God-given right to my loyalty!

This is the crux of it all and the exact reason we all have the same argument time and time again.

Sisu, don't have anyone's loyalty, it's CCFC and the players that have this if you by a ticket.

That's where we will always disagree.

Back in 1999 did you tell people you were a City fan or an avid Bryan Richardson supporter?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 24, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
And that is likely because we have been ran so well and treated so generously by our owners..come off it. At some point you have to draw a line in the sand when you're getting terrible service and treated so badly. That point for me is now, wherever we play. It does cost money to buy a ticket, you know...SISU don't have a God-given right to my loyalty!

I'm as vocal a critic of SISU as the next person but I'm sick of seeing this club remain in the gutter and don't want to see it sink to an even more pathetic level of football.

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