Higgs vs CCFC Court Row (57 Viewers)

[AJB1983]

Interesting point. I guess in business you can but aren't you into the area of hostile takeovers? If the money was suddenly owed to SISU rather than YB what would prevent SISU from altering the repayment terms or requesting the full balance be paid?

A Hostile takeover is what sisu were surely trying to start by approaching Yorkshire bank themselves were they not?
As opposed to sensible adult conversations/negotiations over buying the share

 

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[Jack Griffin]

So in other words, they wanted out as quickly and easily as possible?

Of course, they must have been ruing the day they tied up so much money in the stadium.
But that was done in the days a level of trust existed between CCFC & AEHC, something which no longer exists.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Over 800 posts already....there is no fecking way I'm reading all this....

Is there actually anything noteworthy, game-changing or indeed, even particularly interesting in the previous 807 posts?


Update for lazy twats like me please!!

 

[The Gentleman]

It's not trying to underline the credibility, I think it's an attempt to paint the picture that the witness was fundamentally opposed to SISU.

But it is not a crime to be fundamentally opposed to Sisu, fuck me we'd all be up in that case (well most of us)!

 

[chiefdave]

A Hostile takeover is what sisu were surely trying to start by approaching Yorkshire bank themselves were they not?
As opposed to sensible adult conversations/negotiations over buying the share

That would be my interpretation but Labovich has claimed it was a plan between all parties involved which then brings up the question of legallity based on what he has stated relating to Higgs and CCC working together.

 

[tisza]

If ACL had missed a payment I could understand the bank's position. But this wasn't the case. Had ACL tried to renegotiate the loan with the bank?

 

[Rob S]

Agreement was to be Sisu sort out bank debt, CCC extend lease, Sisu buy out Higgs share of ACL and AEG brought in by Sisu to manage arena

 

[chiefdave]

If ACL had missed a payment I could understand the bank's position. But this wasn't the case. Had ACL tried to renegotiate the loan with the bank?

This is probably why Fisher was constantly on CWR telling everyone ACL was about to go bust. I think basically they were trying to unsettle YB so even tho no payments had been missed they were worried about future payments and would be open to an offer to pay off at a lower rate.

 

[chiefdave]

Agreement was to be Sisu sort out bank debt, CCC extend lease, Sisu buy out Higgs share of ACL and AEG brought in by Sisu to manage arena

So CCC would still have owned 50%? Not sure why that same deal can't be done no matter who the debt is to? Pay Higgs for their share, pay the loan off (or pay the £8m they were going to pay YB) in return for the logner lease and you end up in the same place. What's to stop that happening now?

 

[Rob S]

Bear in mind we are discussing events Aug 2012-Jan 2013 when a deal was trying to be made for the benefit of all, pre-Admin, pre-Sixfields.

Sisu had a slightly better reputation (couldn't be worse?!?) back then.

 

[Grendel]

This is probably why Fisher was constantly on CWR telling everyone ACL was about to go bust. I think basically they were trying to unsettle YB so even tho no payments had been missed they were worried about future payments and would be open to an offer to pay off at a lower rate.

Lucas admitted ACL would have been in "a right mess" if the mortgage had stayed with the YB

 

[The Penguin]

So CCC would still have owned 50%? Not sure why that same deal can't be done no matter who the debt is to? Pay Higgs for their share, pay the loan off (or pay the £8m they were going to pay YB) in return for the logner lease and you end up in the same place. What's to stop that happening now?

Too much distrust and bad blood, perhaps?

 

[oldskyblue58]

PKH agreed with QC that there were holes in the bilateral (CCC and Higgs) rather than trilateral approach to bank as didn't consider how it would affect CCFC

was there any agreement that it should consider CCFC ? and as directors/stakeholders in ACL what duty did they owe CCFC to actually include them?

 

[Rob S]

12.52 PKH quizzing by QC ends. Over to Higgs barrister Brennan... (Not Bishop Brennan!)

 

[duffer]

It's not trying to underline the credibility, I think it's an attempt to paint the picture that the witness was fundamentally opposed to SISU.

I think you're right - though of course this comes six months after SISU have walked away from the HoT and have stopped paying rent to ACL, half owned by AEHC.

It would hardly be a surprise that people from AEHC had stopped trusting/liking SISU by then.

 

[The Prefect]

That would be my interpretation but Labovich has claimed it was a plan between all parties involved which then brings up the question of legallity based on what he has stated relating to Higgs and CCC working together.

ML has alleged that CCC and ACL were working together to de-stablise the club. Whether he's right I don't know.

He does seem to forget that it could be alleged that SISU have worked with their funds and CCFC / Otium to de-stablise ACL. Still, he's not really one for balance is he?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Bear in mind we are discussing events Aug 2012-Jan 2013 when a deal was trying to be made for the benefit of all, pre-Admin, pre-Sixfields.

Sisu had a slightly better reputation (couldn't be worse?!?) back then.

and a discussion led by the QC representing SISU at the moment. We still have to keep an open mind

 

[Jack Griffin]

So CCC would still have owned 50%? Not sure why that same deal can't be done no matter who the debt is to? Pay Higgs for their share, pay the loan off (or pay the £8m they were going to pay YB) in return for the logner lease and you end up in the same place. What's to stop that happening now?

Lack of trust.

 

[tisza]

Lucas admitted ACL would have been in "a right mess" if the mortgage had stayed with the YB

But wasn't that was after the club had moved?

 

[duffer]

Bear in mind we are discussing events Aug 2012-Jan 2013 when a deal was trying to be made for the benefit of all, pre-Admin, pre-Sixfields.

Sisu had a slightly better reputation (couldn't be worse?!?) back then.

They'd already stopped paying the rent for four/five months and walked away from the HoT by then. (And seemingly, moved assets out of CCFC Ltd).

 

[lordsummerisle]

12.52 PKH quizzing by QC ends. Over to Higgs barrister Brennan... (Not Bishop Brennan!)

Kick him up the arse!

 

[chiefdave]

Lucas admitted ACL would have been in "a right mess" if the mortgage had stayed with the YB

Was that before or after Fisher had unsettled YB and given the impression ACL would be going out of business at any minute?

 

[Rob S]

was there any agreement that it should consider CCFC ? and as directors/stakeholders in ACL what duty did they owe CCFC to actually include them?

That wasn't covered but I will review notes at lunch (rumble, rumble).

 

[chiefdave]

Lack of trust.

Of course. But from the CCC / Higgs side they have, at least publically, appeared to remain open to this kind of arrangement, it is SISU who have stated there is no way they are coming back without ownership which appears to indicate it is their stance that has changed.

 

[Rob S]

PKH getting opportunity to lay into Sisu/Fisher/Seppala

 

[torchomatic]

YB must be a shit bank then if they become "unsettled" by an "impression".

Was that before or after Fisher had unsettled YB and given the impression ACL would be going out of business at any minute?

 

[duffer]

That wasn't covered but I will review notes at lunch (rumble, rumble).

Good work Rob, many thanks. You may need to hand SISU's QC a share of your pie money, or you'll be up before the beak too.

 

[Rob S]

Was that before or after Fisher had unsettled YB and given the impression ACL would be going out of business at any minute?

Careful - this kind of post can get you into legal trouble!

 

[chiefdave]

lunch (rumble, rumble).

Think we should setup a fund to keep Rob and Simon topped up with a supply of Greggs sausage rolls until the end of the court case!

 

[Sub]

PKH getting opportunity to lay into Sisu/Fisher/Seppala

whats he saying !!!!

 

[tisza]

Agreement was to be Sisu sort out bank debt, CCC extend lease, Sisu buy out Higgs share of ACL and AEG brought in by Sisu to manage arena

This was SISU's proposal or an agreement between who exactly?

 

[Rob S]

Judge questioning PKH and now he's done. Calm under a lot of questioning but some interesting references. Lunchtime!

 

[chiefdave]

YB must be a shit bank then if they become "unsettled" by an "impression".

Well given that ACL never missed a payment and are still in business why did YB suddenly become worried about their ability to pay at the same time SISU stopped paying rent and Fisher was telling anyone who would listen they were about to go bust?

 

[wingy]

Well given that ACL never missed a payment and are still in business why did YB suddenly become worried about their ability to pay at the same time SISU stopped paying rent and Fisher was telling anyone who would listen they were about to go bust?

Like i said previously ,actually paid down the loan at virtually double rate .

Any higher Risk than the opening loan £21M. when virtually the whole business was around the football ,yet by the end represented around 15% of business.

Much more to the Director who shifted across and alerted YB to the ruse .

 

[wingy]

Like i said previously ,actually paid down the loan at virtually double rate .

Any higher Risk than the opening loan £21M. when virtually the whole business was around the football ,yet by the end represented around 15% of business.

Much more to the Director who shifted across and alerted YB to the ruse .

In fact can't he be called as a witness here as a former director of ACL.