Match Thread Hull city (H) 16/3/22 (2 Viewers)

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Esoterica

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
SlowerThanPlatt said:
Any thoughts on why we concede the opening goal so often? Great entertainment for the fan but long term eventually going to fall short @Esoterica @Frostie
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As @Frostie says it's difficult to pinpoint a single cause, which in part is because the problem is a double edged sword - the issue has been at both ends of the pitch. To focus on why we concede first means we equally have to look at why we don't score first often enough. Only Peterboro and Cardiff have scored fewer first half goals than us and only Bristol have conceded more.

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Whilst realising I am pointing out the bleeding obvious, goals change games. When we do score first we've taken 29 point from 36, which is a very healthy total. W9 D2 L1. But that's only 12 from 37 games we've scored first in.

Think a combination of a youngish squad and also a lack of experience at this level has contributed - we just aren't consistent enough either individually for the full 90 minutes or across a run of games. There aren't many players that can genuinely claim to have strung 3 really good games in a row together and although it's a tough league, that reflects in our results pattern where we've only won 2 games in a row once since mid September when our good early run ended.
Frostie has pointed out some of the recent individual errors, I'd add JCS to that too. He was lauded for his Sheff Utd performance but in the euphoria of the result, it was forgotten he was ball watching and lost his man for their opener. For me we have too many players who turn in 5/6s one week and then 8/9s the next. A few more week in/week out 7/8s are needed. That's a budget issue though and a symptom of having to retain players and hope they continue to develop on the pitch.

Speculation on my part now but I feel we also have a very 'nice' squad. Robins seems to prefer players like this and my impression is that he values team spirit highly. Hyam, Rose, Sheaf, Godden, Gyokeres, Allen etc... all 'nice boys who you'd be happy to take home to your Mum' types but we miss a ruthlessness, an arrogance, and we don't have many players who can take the game by the scruff of the neck - we've let far too many teams off the hook when we have been on top in matches by not scoring when we had the chance. Mid table for goals scored but in the 'autos' for shots and shots on target. It's hard to say from a distance how much that affects confidence and puts pressure on the defence in front of big home crowds.

Finally, i think we look at our best when we're counter attacking at speed but there's not many teams that come and throw the kitchen sink at us from the off at the CBS, so while games are tight at home we're less effective. Perhaps a different approach to the first half of games at home e.g. do we really need two sitting midfielders? may help us play a better possession game higher up the pitch.
 
Frostie

Frostie

Well-Known Member
Esoterica said:
As @Frostie says it's difficult to pinpoint a single cause, which in part is because the problem is a double edged sword - the issue has been at both ends of the pitch. To focus on why we concede first means we equally have to look at why we don't score first often enough. Only Peterboro and Cardiff have scored fewer first half goals than us and only Bristol have conceded more.

View attachment 24188

Whilst realising I am pointing out the bleeding obvious, goals change games. When we do score first we've taken 29 point from 36, which is a very healthy total. W9 D2 L1. But that's only 12 from 37 games we've scored first in.

Think a combination of a youngish squad and also a lack of experience at this level has contributed - we just aren't consistent enough either individually for the full 90 minutes or across a run of games. There aren't many players that can genuinely claim to have strung 3 really good games in a row together and although it's a tough league, that reflects in our results pattern where we've only won 2 games in a row once since mid September when our good early run ended.
Frostie has pointed out some of the recent individual errors, I'd add JCS to that too. He was lauded for his Sheff Utd performance but in the euphoria of the result, it was forgotten he was ball watching and lost his man for their opener. For me we have too many players who turn in 5/6s one week and then 8/9s the next. A few more week in/week out 7/8s are needed. That's a budget issue though and a symptom of having to retain players and hope they continue to develop on the pitch.

Speculation on my part now but I feel we also have a very 'nice' squad. Robins seems to prefer players like this and my impression is that he values team spirit highly. Hyam, Rose, Sheaf, Godden, Gyokeres, Allen etc... all 'nice boys who you'd be happy to take home to your Mum' types but we miss a ruthlessness, an arrogance, and we don't have many players who can take the game by the scruff of the neck - we've let far too many teams off the hook when we have been on top in matches by not scoring when we had the chance. Mid table for goals scored but in the 'autos' for shots and shots on target. It's hard to say from a distance how much that affects confidence and puts pressure on the defence in front of big home crowds.

Finally, i think we look at our best when we're counter attacking at speed but there's not many teams that come and throw the kitchen sink at us from the off at the CBS, so while games are tight at home we're less effective. Perhaps a different approach to the first half of games at home e.g. do we really need two sitting midfielders? may help us play a better possession game higher up the pitch.
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Great post 👍🏻

Only point I'd contend is that I don't blame JCS for the Sheff Utd goal. You are absolutely right that Berge was his man but ultimately he is marking 2 players & let's Berge go to pick up Gordon who he assumed to be the bigger threat. Fadz & particularly Rose are just ball watching - watch the reactions after, he's furious with Rose.

Either way though your points are salient as usual. When you consider how many times we've given away the first goal (and I literally mean gave them away at times) we've done incredibly well to come back as many times as we have.
If other teams sat deeper & were as well organised as Hull it may not have been the same outcome.
 
blunted

blunted

Well-Known Member
Four experienced defenders out injured with no natural replacement would scupper any team in the division. All first team management out with Covid did not help. Moore schoolboy error with the first goal. Sheaf, not a natural centre back, more a libero, a little slow to block for the second goal. Dreadful ref, O'hare and Godden missing arguably the best chances in the second half. Think this is a season too far with our injuries and small squad. Onwards and upwards next season if SISU don't sell all our best players.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Frostie said:
No issue with the way we setup initially but, having gifted them a 2 goal lead, it was always going to be nigh on impossible to break down a team as well disciplined & organised as they were. We should have changed the system up early second half at least.
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Yeah I mean once we were chasing the game and camped in their half.
 
K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
Is there perhaps an issue with how we score goals as well?

The majority seem to come from breaks rather than build up which suggests we need to rely on an oppositions back line being quite open. Equally, the fact we score the bulk of our goals in the second half also suggests we rely on tired legs for our style to really come off. E.g. Sheffield United.

If you look at the performances against Preston as a case in point for instance as well, when we try to play our game against organised and tight opponents we often look completely stifled with zero idea how to break them down. So the fact there's no Plan B probably at the very least indicates that how we score our goals/our style of play just isn't a one size fits all approach and at times needs to be adapted depending on the opposition.
 
Esoterica

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
KenilworthSkyBlue said:
Is there perhaps an issue with how we score goals as well?

The majority seem to come from breaks rather than build up which suggests we need to rely on an oppositions back line being quite open. Equally, the fact we score the bulk of our goals in the second half also suggests we rely on tired legs for our style to really come off. E.g. Sheffield United.

If you look at the performances against Preston as a case in point for instance as well, when we try to play our game against organised and tight opponents we often look completely stifled with zero idea how to break them down. So the fact there's no Plan B probably at the very least indicates that how we score our goals/our style of play just isn't a one size fits all approach and at times needs to be adapted depending on the opposition.
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We are quite a predictable side - we have no raw pace anywhere in the team and no height outside of the back 3 and Gyokeres, who isn't that great in the air anyway for a guy of his size.

I think it's a symptom of the formation too. 3 CBs and two deeper midfielders means you're getting a maximum of 5 players in the opposition penalty area unless Hamer regularly gets box to box. Another part of that issue is that our wingbacks don't attack the backpost enough when the ball is on the opposite side. Maatsen is the best of the 4 at doing it, so it's no surprise he has the most goals, but even he could do it more.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Esoterica said:
We are quite a predictable side - we have no raw pace anywhere in the team and no height outside of the back 3 and Gyokeres, who isn't that great in the air anyway for a guy of his size.

I think it's a symptom of the formation too. 3 CBs and two deeper midfielders means you're getting a maximum of 5 players in the opposition penalty area unless Hamer regularly gets box to box. Another part of that issue is that our wingbacks don't attack the backpost enough when the ball is on the opposite side. Maatsen is the best of the 4 at doing it, so it's no surprise he has the most goals, but even he could do it more.
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That last point is something I thought we’d see Bidwell do more than he has.
 
T

tommy hutch legend

Well-Known Member
Esoterica said:
We are quite a predictable side - we have no raw pace anywhere in the team and no height outside of the back 3 and Gyokeres, who isn't that great in the air anyway for a guy of his size.

I think it's a symptom of the formation too. 3 CBs and two deeper midfielders means you're getting a maximum of 5 players in the opposition penalty area unless Hamer regularly gets box to box. Another part of that issue is that our wingbacks don't attack the backpost enough when the ball is on the opposite side. Maatsen is the best of the 4 at doing it, so it's no surprise he has the most goals, but even he could do it more.
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Agree with most of that Imod we nend a player from the back when there is space to drive forward on occasions to mix it up a bit
 
Covpaul73

Covpaul73

New Member
larry_david said:
Everytime he got the ball he one touch passed it straight back where he came from. Never once tried to break the lines, never once made a bold move forward. In fact what sums him up and us up was a great tackle in the second half and then had 30 yards to run into but panicked and passed it straight to their player
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Pr%ck
 
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