If Wasps publicly declared they wanted to buy CCFC (10 Viewers)

[oldskyblue58]

Why do you need a separate management company when Otium is stand alone already?

How do you get economies of scale if they are run as separate businesses.

What are these economies of scale that cant be achieved now as it stands? Biggest cost for both is wages the next biggest is stadium running costs which are reasonably fixed or subject to Compass agreement. What will happen is that Wasps would allocate more stadium cost to CCFC to reflect reality rather than the current discount deal.

In any case CCFC are going to be at the BPA apparently

 

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[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I don't see why so many of you are struggling with the fact that many of our fans have said no.....its quite straightforward....

....Sisu are a massive bunch of useless cunts.....we all know that......but wasps owners are even worse.....they have already franchised a sports club, ripped it from it roots with no care for its original fan base AND they continue to operate to the obvious & direct detriment of Coventrys 2 major historic sports clubs.....all to make few bob for another off-shore cunty hedge fund....

We are currently sitting in a shit-stained frying pan.....but I'd still prefer it to being thrown onto the massive fire full of cunty carpet-baggers.

 

[lewys33]

As much as I despise them and their similarities to SISU - I think begrudgingly I would have to say yes. Would rather someone else did though ........

 

[peeler]

The problem is , Mr Peeler, that no one associated with Coventry City has any affinity or interest with Wasps. They have stolen our stadium, our home, and therefore seriously denied us the opportunity to rebuild an already ailing club. Granted other parties can take the blame, but Wasps have taken a decision knowing full well it would be to the detriment of the city's football club and to the city's rugby club. I have absolutely no interest in the game of rugby, yet I have never disliked Coventry Rugby club but respect them for who they are, their history and what they do for our city. I do however, have no respect for wasps. They may think themselves a "big club" but they have no roots in our city and time will tell how long before their bubble bursts.
12,000 for their last "home" game suggests that with almost 60% empty seats their bubble isn't that big.

.

Mr Alan Dugdales Moustache, based upon your name you are probably a more mature member of the Sky Blue Army, may I suggest you take off your sky blue spectacles and start living in the real world. The football club is being strangled, by SISU and SISU alone, they are ultimately responsible for the direction the club is taking, to blame any other party is blinkered and irrational.

You do know that Wasps didn't steal anything, they purchased ACL and took on it's 14m debt, the negotiations happened when SISU had marched the team to Northampton, without any respect for it's fans or history. SISU wanted their own stadium, you remember the statements "That ship has sailed", the photoshopped picture of a sparkling new arena, the Sandra Garlick meetings to engage the fans, we are down to three sites on the outskirts of the city, the secret commercial negotiations on a site etc. etc. We now know it was all bluff, all designed to fool the FL & the fans.

SISU aren't and never were interested in rebuilding, they were the ones trying to steal the stadium for personal gain & if they had do you really think it would of been for the benefit of CCFC? Really? Of course it wouldn't, all profits would of been siphoned off to some offshore bank account, to pay off the enormous loans the club has been saddled with. CCFC would probably be in the same state as it is now, neglected and kept alive in D1 on the smallest budget possible, because SISU have no interest in running a football club, to them it's merely a means to an end.

Wasps are a big rugby club, whether you like it or not and are already prospering and embedding themselves in Coventry.
As for gates, you have to put it into perspective, at Adams Park they would of been lucky to get 5K at the weekend, so 12K is a success, they'll grow when the European matches start. While CCFC's appear to be on a new downward spiral 8K last weekend, talk about empty blue seats.

 

[ajsccfc]

He capitalised their name a few times elsewhere in that paragraph, I'd be surprised if it was a dig.

 

[peeler]

As much as I despise them and their similarities to SISU - I think begrudgingly I would have to say yes. Would rather someone else did though ........

Why are they similar to SISU?
SISU run CCFC on the smallest budget they can, there aim is to make money for SISU. While the club sits at the bottom of D3, threatened with relegation.
Wasps invest in the playing side, they have signed up top world rugby stars, are sitting equal top after 3 games and look like the only team capable of threatening Saracens dominance.

 

[Nick]

Mr Alan Dugdales Moustache, based upon your name you are probably a more mature member of the Sky Blue Army, may I suggest you take off your sky blue spectacles and start living in the real world. The football club is being strangled, by SISU and SISU alone, they are ultimately responsible for the direction the club is taking, to blame any other party is blinkered and irrational.

It is all well and good telling everybody else they are blinkered and irrational just as other parties are quite publicly strangling the football club.

 

[peeler]

He capitalised their name a few times elsewhere in that paragraph, I'd be surprised if it was a dig.

I've noticed quite a few people on here don't capitalise Wasps or spell it oddly or miss out the 's' on the end. It's like their way of protesting, it gives them a small personal victory I suppose.

You are right, I've taken that comment off, it's silly on my part.

 

[Nick]

I've noticed quite a few people on here don't capitalise Wasps or spell it oddly or miss out the 's' on the end. It's like their way of protesting, it gives them a small personal victory I suppose.

You are right, I've taken that comment off, it's silly on my part.

Yes, because everybody gets a victory by not using a capital letter in Wasps name or by calling them Wasp. Yet you are calling other people blinkered?

 

[italiahorse]

Didn't you say they would run us at break even?

Yes they would.
Economies of scale means costs would be reduced for both.

 

[oldfiver]

Why are they similar to SISU?
SISU run CCFC on the smallest budget they can, there aim is to make money for SISU. While the club sits at the bottom of D3, threatened with relegation.
Wasps invest in the playing side, they have signed up top world rugby stars, are sitting equal top after 3 games and look like the only team capable of threatening Saracens dominance.

WASPs are actively supported at every turn by CCC and I expect more sweeteners to come.
If you set aside CCFC what do CCC do for CRFC?

 

[lewys33]

Why are they similar to SISU?
SISU run CCFC on the smallest budget they can, there aim is to make money for SISU. While the club sits at the bottom of D3, threatened with relegation.
Wasps invest in the playing side, they have signed up top world rugby stars, are sitting equal top after 3 games and look like the only team capable of threatening Saracens dominance.

If you don't see the similarities then what hope is there? They are essentially a hedge fund based in Malta.

They have signed a few decent players this year but they are rolling the dice. They currently receive money from the RFU for every free ticket which actually goes through the turnstile. I don't recall the exact amount of time this goes on for but 2 years is in my head for some reason. If they don't win the league in the next 2 years they will have failed and will start to drop.

Just like sisu .........

 

[peeler]

It is all well and good telling everybody else they are blinkered and irrational just as other parties are quite publicly strangling the football club.

I don't think the aim is to strangle (as you put it) the football club. I think you'll find that most of these entities just don't want to work with SISU.
If as a result of this it hastens the departure of SISU, then they have my backing.

Would you work with them? I wouldn't.
If you did, you would have to have the finest legal team in the land behind you.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Mr Alan Dugdales Moustache, based upon your name you are probably a more mature member of the Sky Blue Army, may I suggest you take off your sky blue spectacles and start living in the real world. The football club is being strangled, by SISU and SISU alone, they are ultimately responsible for the direction the club is taking, to blame any other party is blinkered and irrational.

Thing is, ultimately other parties will have some responsibility for the direction of the club as they have made decisions which affect the direction of the club along with SISU. This is not as clear cut as just SISU being to blame. Most fans agree that. Most fans agree other parties have impacted on the club. This is not a defence of SISU. This is just looking at it for what it is. Some will say CCC reacted to what SISU did but did they have to retaliate by selling the stadium to a London rugby club (which again most people apart from yourself acknowledge) for 250 years. Has this not now directed on the action SISU take with the club?

You do know that Wasps didn't steal anything, they purchased ACL and took on it's 14m debt, the negotiations happened when SISU had marched the team to Northampton, without any respect for it's fans or history. SISU wanted their own stadium, you remember the statements "That ship has sailed", the photoshopped picture of a sparkling new arena, the Sandra Garlick meetings to engage the fans, we are down to three sites on the outskirts of the city, the secret commercial negotiations on a site etc. etc. We now know it was all bluff, all designed to fool the FL & the fans.

You do know the club were paying 1.3 million a year in rent for just matchdays and received nothing other than ticket receipts. Yes they also had corporate but this was bought before sold on. Same with parking I believe. The clubs rent effectively kept ACL going. ACL were not run as well as they could have been by the council, Bob Ainsworth admitted as much to me. They didn't grant a longer lease intially which would have helped ACL. Point is, the councils ineptitiude at running ACL, impacted and increased SISU's ineptitude at running CCFC. See how others can impact on SISU and their actions? Correct SISU marched the club to Northampton wholly unnessecarily, they should have resolved the situation by hook or by crook, particuarly if they knew Wasps were lurking. Without any respect for it's fans or history? Interesting. You don't give a shit about Wasps fans and their history. Try and excuse the move by saying they were only called London Wasps for 15 years. Ignoring the fact they were located in West London for majority of their years. SISU bluffed and gambled and failed spectacuarly, has anyone ever disagreed?

SISU aren't and never were interested in rebuilding, they were the ones trying to steal the stadium for personal gain & if they had do you really think it would of been for the benefit of CCFC? Really? Of course it wouldn't, all profits would of been siphoned off to some offshore bank account, to pay off the enormous loans the club has been saddled with. CCFC would probably be in the same state as it is now, neglected and kept alive in D1 on the smallest budget possible, because SISU have no interest in running a football club, to them it's merely a means to an end.

Rightly as you say, SISU didn't/don't want to build a future for CCFC, they want their money back. Rightly as you said they attempted to distress ACL to gain an asset on the cheap. Did Wasps not take advantage of the SISU plan not quite working in SISU's favour? Is that any better or different? The only benefit would of been an asset on the books. Something for new owners to want. Siphoned off? How many times do we have this and go over and over it. There is no proof of this happening. Interest is being added and deferred, yes. No money is being taken out though. The club has been saddled with loans as they have been making losses. Wasps made losses issued, issued the bonds upon purchase of the Ricoh. Richardson then promptly paid himself back. You think that is fine though but call SISU for it? Hypocritical? Me thinks so.

Wasps (and it's silly not to Capitalise their name, but I suppose it helps you vent) are a big rugby club, whether you like it or not and are already prospering and embedding themselves in Coventry.

A big rugby club? In whose eyes? All their new fans in Coventry who are overwhelmed with flags and TV replays? Are they as big as say Leicester or Northampton? Did they win anything last year? Embedding in Coventry? Too soon to comment. Maybe got into bed with some people from Coventry, yes.

As for gates, you have to put it into perspective, at Adams Park they would of been lucky to get 5K at the weekend, so 12K is a success, they'll grow when the European matches start. While CCFC's appear to be on a new downward spiral 8K last weekend, talk about empty blue seats.

When the European matches start. Is that because the opposition bring more fans? CCFC are on a downward spiral because we're not playing well, scoring goals or winning matches. Win a few games and the attendance will creep back up. It's a results business, rugby is too. I would think Wasps would need to win something soon too, so as to live up to this big name billing people are giving them.

 

[peeler]

Yes, because everybody gets a victory by not using a capital letter in Wasps name or by calling them Wasp. Yet you are calling other people blinkered?

I'm not blinkered though, that's the point. I acknowledged that it's their way of getting a small victory.

 

[Nick]

I don't think the aim is to strangle (as you put it) the football club. I think you'll find that most of these entities just don't want to work with SISU.
If as a result of this it hastens the departure of SISU, then they have my backing.

Would you work with them? I wouldn't.
If you did, you would have to have the finest legal team in the land behind you.

So they are strangling the football club to try and get rid of SISU?

It seems while you bang on about Sky Blue Glasses you are sat wearing some Anti SISU and Black and Yellow ones.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Yes they would.
Economies of scale means costs would be reduced for both.

Woah a minute. Do we not hate SISU because they won't invest money? Didn't the Telegraph editor say thanks for your investment but move on. Does that not intimate to any potential new owner, that we want them to come in, throw money at it but if it fails to walk off for the next investor?

 

[Nick]

I'm not blinkered though, that's the point. I acknowledged that it's their way of getting a small victory.

So you think people get a small victory over Wasps by not capitalising the name? Jesus Christ.

Imagine if somebody was getting upset about SISU not being capitalised properly on here.

Sorry, but that's embarrassing.

 

[Moff]

SISU aren't and never were interested in rebuilding, they were the ones trying to steal the stadium for personal gain & if they had do you really think it would of been for the benefit of CCFC? Really? Of course it wouldn't, all profits would of been siphoned off to some offshore bank account, to pay off the enormous loans the club has been saddled with. CCFC would probably be in the same state as it is now, neglected and kept alive in D1 on the smallest budget possible, because SISU have no interest in running a football club, to them it's merely a means to an end..

I agree with what you have written above, but that in itself is also why people do not want Wasps owning CCFC.

I do not believe that Wasps have CCFC interests at heart, and at the end of the day never will. They would run the business as second class to the Rugby. It would be more of the same. Whilst they run a far better ship than SISU, their interest in CCFC is not far removed from SISU's, little or none.

Still that said its a non starter, the club is a basket case, their focus rightfully so is Rugby, why would they want us?

I accept Wasps are here, but my wish for the club is for it to be free of SISU, the Ricoh to be free of Wasps, and CCFC to have the stadium lease. A pipe dream I know but one I wish for my club, and SISU and Wasps stand in the way.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It wouldn't be my preference to be owned by another hedge fund, and one that will happily move clubs across the country if it suits them. Equally I support the team and not the owners so I would still attend.

The concern was they seem obsessed with building a Wasps brand over integrating into the community. Pretty much all of our sides play in blue and have Coventry in their name. Wasps have come in and not added Coventry to their name and play in yellow and black, fair enough as they aren't a Coventry team. But why not have Coventry in the name of their netball team?

With their obsession with building the brand how long would it be before consideration was given to pushing us in that direction. Not saying it would happen over night but I see them trying to gradually bring it in.

I'm sorry, that's absolute bollocks. To say Wasps don't have an active community programme is frankly preposterous. I have seen the totality of their engagement with local schools, further learning institutions and local rugby clubs and it's immense. Some of the work they've done at Coventry schools - especially with disenfranchised kids - is admirable. If you don't know about it, I understand - but to claim it doesn't exist simply isn't true.

Thing is, if they did bleat about it; they'd be accused of PR. If they give free tickets to local school kids, people laugh at them bolstering their gates. They can't win. If they use 'Coventry' in their name this forum would be up in arms at their cheek and incredulity. Yet they also get judged if they don't. Don't try and afford any justification to your stance - just say 'I'll hate Wasps irrespective of what they do' and at least I'd respect your stance.

I don't see Wasps buying into the football club, and mixing both sports doesn't normally work. That stated, any new owner is faced with the legacy of SISU's 'negotiating skills' and therefore faces up to a future of a club with no tangible assets. It could, therefore, be argued that the best chance of keeping CCFC in Coventry is via Wasps ownership - as they have the majority of the infrastructure, or have shown the wherewithal to develop what's not already there

 

[lewys33]

I'm sorry, that's absolute bollocks. To say Wasps don't have an active community programme is frankly preposterous. I have seen the totality of their engagement with local schools, further learning institutions and local rugby clubs and it's immense. Some of the work they've done at Coventry schools - especially with disenfranchised kids - is admirable. If you don't know about it, I understand - but to claim it doesn't exist simply isn't true.

Thing is, if they did bleat about it; they'd be accused of PR. If they give free tickets to local school kids, people laugh at them bolstering their gates. They can't win. If they use 'Coventry' in their name this forum would be up in arms at their cheek and incredulity. Yet they also get judged if they don't. Don't try and afford any justification to your stance - just say 'I'll hate Wasps irrespective of what they do' and at least I'd respect your stance.

I don't see Wasps buying into the football club, and mixing both sports doesn't normally work. That stated, any new owner is faced with the legacy of SISU's 'negotiating skills' and therefore faces up to a future of a club with no tangible assets. It could, therefore, be argued that the best chance of keeping CCFC in Coventry is via Wasps ownership - as they have the majority of the infrastructure, or have shown the wherewithal to develop what's not already there

I agree they do appear to have done a lot - but at least admit they are doing it for their own gain. They moved here - they need to try and get as many people on board as possible.

They gave free tickets out because the RFU are paying them for each free ticket used.

Like I said previously though, as much as I despise them, Wasps (with correct capital letter and spelling) owning CCFC may actually work to keep us alive. I would still support the team and not the owners.

 

[stupot07]

Yes they would.
Economies of scale means costs would be reduced for both.

Lol. Interesting that you didn't reply to OSB's rebuff on your "economies of scale" nonsense.

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[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I agree they do appear to have done a lot - but at least admit they are doing it for their own gain. They moved here - they need to try and get as many people on board as possible.

They gave free tickets out because the RFU are paying them for each free ticket used.

Like I said previously though, as much as I despise them, Wasps (with correct capital letter and spelling) owning CCFC may actually work to keep us alive. I would still support the team and not the owners.

Absolutely they're doing it for their own gain; they're a commercial enterprise and very shrewd at doing what they do. They've got a hard job converting people like Moff who cling to the delusion of Saints still being a relevant club, so they have a very, very active programme embedded in the community to generate the 'next generation' of supporter ;-)

 

[Moff]

Absolutely they're doing it for their own gain; they're a commercial enterprise and very shrewd at doing what they do. They've got a hard job converting people like Moff who cling to the delusion of Saints still being a relevant club, so they have a very, very active programme embedded in the community to generate the 'next generation' of supporter ;-)

Wind your neck in carrot cruncher. I believe the Saints last won the Premiership, more recently than your Baaarrrth team, The Pussycats in Leicester or the local pests.

Just remember the Saints have been embedded in their local community for over a century and have a fantastic community programme. They didn't have to move locations for that.

 

[chiefdave]

To say Wasps don't have an active community programme is frankly preposterous.

Care to show me where I've made that claim?

I was saying everything Wasps do is for their own benefit and about their brand hence their teams, including their new netball team, not having the city in their name and attempting to brand everything yellow and black, colours that have no connection to the city.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Would you support the team though?

Don't think I would tbh. Unlike many who bleat around here though, I'd sod off and find something else to do... much as I did when we signed King.

You invite all the arguments used to counter rabid anti SISU and NOPM protesters with that comment, as it implies enough anger to stop supporting the 'Club'. Would you still support the club if an out of town hedge fund owned it ( Wasps )? I would because it is the Club I support- even with undesireable or useless owners.

I don't think I would support them if we were bought by Wasps, no. The thought of us being owned by an avowed franchise with a track record for permanently moving clubs for financial reasons would be too much for me. Football's on life support as it is, this would be the straw to break the camel's back.

And as for NOPM etc... I have no problem with anybody stopping supporting the club because he football's shit, our owners are shit, we sign King... they don't like the fact our tops are white. What bothers me with NOPM is the backwards logic that not turning up will force SISU to do whatever people want - that won't happen. Stop watching the club because you don't think they deserve your money, but don't stop because you think it's a pressure point... people may be unpleasantly surprised at where and how the pressure might release.

Ditto Wasps taking us over, I would be under no illusion that me stopping supporting them would persuade Wasps to sell to someone else, it would just be my choice and nothing else.

Others would think differently, so be it.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Wasps invest in the playing side, they have signed up top world rugby stars, are sitting equal top after 3 games and look like the only team capable of threatening Saracens dominance.

Didn't they make £35m from a sale of bonds, repayable in 7 years? Such spending on such 'stars' reminds me of CCFC in the 90's and look how that turned out.

If Wasps don't win anything in the next couple of seasons (fingers crossed), the bubble starts to burst....

 

[oldfiver]

Didn't they make £35m from a sale of bonds, repayable in 7 years? Such spending on such 'stars' reminds me of CCFC in the 90's and look how that turned out.

If Wasps don't win anything in the next couple of seasons (fingers crossed), the bubble starts to burst....

If they get sweet property deals that is how they will be funded - CCC cannot allow them to burst!

 

[hutch1972]

Didn't they make £35m from a sale of bonds, repayable in 7 years? Such spending on such 'stars' reminds me of CCFC in the 90's and look how that turned out.

If Wasps don't win anything in the next couple of seasons (fingers crossed), the bubble starts to burst....

Totally agree , the crunch will come when the bond (aka a remortgage) has to be repaid. Current finances from attendances etc would get no where near it.
I'd love to know what the break even attendance figure is , considering I still haven't met anyone who has had to pay for a ticket it must be well above 22k.

 

[hutch1972]

Mr Alan Dugdales Moustache, based upon your name you are probably a more mature member of the Sky Blue Army, may I suggest you take off your sky blue spectacles and start living in the real world. The football club is being strangled, by SISU and SISU alone, they are ultimately responsible for the direction the club is taking, to blame any other party is blinkered and irrational.

You do know that Wasps didn't steal anything, they purchased ACL and took on it's 14m debt, the negotiations happened when SISU had marched the team to Northampton, without any respect for it's fans or history. SISU wanted their own stadium, you remember the statements "That ship has sailed", the photoshopped picture of a sparkling new arena, the Sandra Garlick meetings to engage the fans, we are down to three sites on the outskirts of the city, the secret commercial negotiations on a site etc. etc. We now know it was all bluff, all designed to fool the FL & the fans.

SISU aren't and never were interested in rebuilding, they were the ones trying to steal the stadium for personal gain & if they had do you really think it would of been for the benefit of CCFC? Really? Of course it wouldn't, all profits would of been siphoned off to some offshore bank account, to pay off the enormous loans the club has been saddled with. CCFC would probably be in the same state as it is now, neglected and kept alive in D1 on the smallest budget possible, because SISU have no interest in running a football club, to them it's merely a means to an end.

Wasps are a big rugby club, whether you like it or not and are already prospering and embedding themselves in Coventry.
As for gates, you have to put it into perspective, at Adams Park they would of been lucky to get 5K at the weekend, so 12K is a success, they'll grow when the European matches start. While CCFC's appear to be on a new downward spiral 8K last weekend, talk about empty blue seats.

Having purchased it for the said amount they immediately valued it at 30 mill so in my eyes they essentially stole it.
Also it is well known that the purchase of the stadium was more than likely discussed way before Northampton, crc chairman confirmed that when he was sounded out on a possible merger.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Totally agree , the crunch will come when the bond (aka a remortgage) has to be repaid. Current finances from attendances etc would get no where near it.
I'd love to know what the break even attendance figure is , considering I still haven't met anyone who has had to pay for a ticket it must be well above 22k.

No it doesn't. They'll just have another bond issue to cover any shortfall and/or additional refinancing needs they have at the time. Of course, there'll be those on here that'll claim any such issue won't be attractive or viable; but they'll be the same people who scoffed at the original issue which turned out to be oversubscribed

 

[Skyblueweeman]

No it doesn't. They'll just have another bond issue to cover any shortfall and/or additional refinancing needs they have at the time. Of course, there'll be those on here that'll claim any such issue won't be attractive or viable; but they'll be the same people who scoffed at the original issue which turned out to be oversubscribed

So they'll continue to issue more bonds to pay the original?

A bit like my mate Trev. Got a £2k credit card to consolidate some loans. Then got another one to pay that card.

£20k in debt later, he's financially a mess.

Granted not entirely the same but those principles wouldn't be out of place in the forthcoming best seller 'Sisu - A guide to making it rich...'...


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[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

So they'll continue to issue more bonds to pay the original?

A bit like my mate Trev. Got a £2k credit card to consolidate some loans. Then got another one to pay that card.

£20k in debt later, he's financially a mess.

Granted not entirely the same but those principles wouldn't be out of place in the forthcoming best seller 'Sisu - A guide to making it rich...'...


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Not really, no. But if there was a slight shortfall on the balance, they could issue a subsequent issue to cover that. It's not as black and white as the 'they can't repay it so they're knackered line' used on here.

So, it's like your mate Trev; takes £2K card 'interest free until April' and pays off £1.5K, them moves his £500 balance to another card. Wasps should fulfill their liability to the bond issue, but if there's a shortfall, they could reissue to cover the shortfall.

Unlike Trev who's liability is every increasing, their hypothetical need for cash would be decreasing. So the next issue - if needed - might be £5m with a shorter term, then zero

 

[fernandopartridge]

Not really, no. But if there was a slight shortfall on the balance, they could issue a subsequent issue to cover that. It's not as black and white as the 'they can't repay it so they're knackered line' used on here.

So, it's like your mate Trev; takes £2K card 'interest free until April' and pays off £1.5K, them moves his £500 balance to another card. Wasps should fulfill their liability to the bond issue, but if there's a shortfall, they could reissue to cover the shortfall.

Unlike Trev who's liability is every increasing, their hypothetical need for cash would be decreasing. So the next issue - if needed - might be £5m with a shorter term, then zero

The only thing is that next time the bond holders might want a better return due to a perceived increased risk. That said, at the minute it looks like they're doing OK.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The only thing is that next time the bond holders might want a better return due to a perceived increased risk. That said, at the minute it looks like they're doing OK.

They may, depends if the 6.5% has been delivered; if so, it'll be over-subscribed again - as that's a decent return. There's every chance it will be and thus a smaller issue will probably be successful too.

It's just false hope for people to think that Wasps will leave town if they haven't got £35m in used tenners in a wheelbarrow by 2022