I'm Seriously Annoyed (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Grendel
- Start date
The Us and them divide imo hasn't come because people have attended Sixfields (though I don't think its the right choice) and it hasn't come because a few idiots called them scabs, it's come about because they are all seen and all act as if they are on the side of sisu, they say they aren't and I do believe they don't think sisu has been at all good for the club but most (all?) of the regular sixfield attenders that are also regular posters spend their energy on here criticising the criticism of sisu, they spend their time criticising the council and acl and most continue too despite the JR verdict, they spend their time trying to make people look bad with little snarky remarks and taking peoples arguments out of context, this along with the fact there are almost no protests in sixfields further makes people believe that the sixfield attendees aren't on the same side as the rest of us.
If sisu out regularly rang around sixfields with banners, if there wasn't constant criticism of those people criticising sisu then we would all feel we were on the same side and everyone would for the most part get along, there would be the occasional idiot of course but then that person would be shot down by both groups. we could easily have 2k people going to sixfields and the rest boycotting and still feel we are on the same side just exercising our beliefs differently.
"No more threads about those going to sixfields - let's let bygones be bygones."
you realise of course Grendel that you are single handedly the biggest source of arguments, of division, of hatred, of bickering on this site, I'm not suggesting you say the worst stuff because you don't at all, there has been some really scummy and horrible things said by some people on both sides (more on the don't attend side its true, but these idiots are shot down and do not cause the division.
The JR result should have been the end of it.
If sisu out regularly rang around sixfields with banners, if there wasn't constant criticism of those people criticising sisu then we would all feel we were on the same side and everyone would for the most part get along, there would be the occasional idiot of course but then that person would be shot down by both groups. we could easily have 2k people going to sixfields and the rest boycotting and still feel we are on the same side just exercising our beliefs differently.
"No more threads about those going to sixfields - let's let bygones be bygones."
you realise of course Grendel that you are single handedly the biggest source of arguments, of division, of hatred, of bickering on this site, I'm not suggesting you say the worst stuff because you don't at all, there has been some really scummy and horrible things said by some people on both sides (more on the don't attend side its true, but these idiots are shot down and do not cause the division.
The JR result should have been the end of it.
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CCFC PimpRail
New Member
If he believes we have a guaranteed 2 year future, does that mean that any fans with a conscience can stay away and protest as much as they like, knowing full well the club will still be around in 2016...?
I wouldn't count on that....
I wouldn't count on that....
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
It is very simple. To get half decent players you have to offer them 2 year contracts. The players who have to accept 1 year deals will be signed later in the window.
As the squad lost its 4 best players from last year & all the (4 or 5 loans, Delfonso, Eccleston, Prutton etc.) it had at the end of last season there was an urgent need to get sufficient players in and get the squad accustomed to each other.
There is still a big hole in the striker department., ie there are none.. I expect one or 2 will turn up in the next 2 weeks
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
agree with alot of that post but BIB means your jsut happy to bend over and take it.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That's pretty much my stance too.
The lost fan
Banned
NOTHING will ever change @ Sixfields or the Ricoh until Sisu are gone , there goal is money , Or saddling the club with there debts ... They have no interest in the long term future of the club. So you go support that "Grendel & co" Just amazed you cant see there is no future under this lot !!!
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
I agree.....its time for disruptive action. No paper waving protests or strongly worded emails are going to make a jot of difference.....
...Getting games at sixfields abandoned or postponed to disrupt the FLs precious fixture lists is fast becoming the only possible cause of action left that may have an effect....
...one thing is for certain.....sitting in the stands, be it "home" or away, & clapping politely will not change anything.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Every owners goal is money and some form of return. It's not and will never be an objective exclusive to SISU.
If the club has borrowed money then it goes somewhere.. mostly to fund the losses because the club can't stand on it's own two feet. If this situation had been dealt with properly back 10 years ago we wouldn't be in the problem we are now.. and SISU would probably never have been involved.
The No.1 priority has to be to get Coventry back to the Ricoh... the battle to get rid of SISU has to be put aside for now.
ohitsaidwalker king power
Well-Known Member
Amen to that....
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Anyone who talks about "it won't bring them home you know. It won't make a difference".
If you understood it was a moral decision you'd realise how silly those comments are.
Nick
Administrator
I think that is in reply to when people say that if nobody went the club would be straight back isn't it?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Every owner? Really?
And how many of them are achieving it?
Every man wants a sports car, but the majority are sensible enough to realise its a pipe dream and not wreck their entire life chasing it.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It was Grendels reason for starting to attend IIRC. He said it was obvious it wasn't making a difference so he went. Touchy and others have said the same thing at times.
The extension here of course is that if you do understand its a moral decision then you shouldn't be bleating about how it's so unfair people don't like you for doing something they see as amoral.
I get fundamentalist Christians don't like abortion, or green activists don't like 4x4s. I don't complain when my actions piss them off, I just accept that we have different value structures and I don't agree with their priorities.
To go all armchair psychologist for a moment: there's a case to be made that those that are the most hateful of those saying "scab" etc are those that feel worst about going to Sixfields.
If I insult your basket weaving skills you don't care, if I insult a strength you have (Nick, you're a shit web admin) you brush it off as nonsense. We only react when we see an element of truth in the insult.
Call me stupid all you like, but don't call me fat kinda thing.
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The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
You're right about the opening bit of your post. However, it is also the majority of owners goals to actually make progress and not go backwards, not alienate a massive majority of it's fanbase, not look to seek money through the courts in futile causes, not to move the club it owns 35 miles from the city it took it's name, not look to threaten anybody who questions them (including fans) with being sued, not to lie to their fans and to generally be good for the club they own.
So that is why you cannot lump Sisu/Otium in with other owners of football clubs. They are a breed apart and not one that is good for CCFC.
Nick
Administrator
I guess you would complain if they were telling you over and over though wouldn't you?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
So bascially, many want there to be a protest at Sixfields as those who attend should do something about it. But, those who don't go to Sixfields won't join in because...they don't go to Sixfields? So, a case of do as I say not do as I do?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The problem I guess is that we're all one community. But as I added before, if you genuinely didn't think going was a problem, you wouldn't care what people thought.
The reaction suggests that on some level some who go aren't sure they're doing the right thing.
Anyway, can't we just apply the same logic as religion: you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
No they want you not to go (do as I do). If that's not possible they want to see a protest because then they don't feel like those in Sixfields support the actions.
As Noggin posted there are many that come across as supportive of the move and of Sisus tactics. I've personally heard season ticket holders talk as if there are two disparate types of fan "us and the others". That shit breeds division and suspicion. People want to understand that you're going because you're "weak" or because you have a kid or whatever but not because you support Sisu. If you align yourself with an entity that others see as destructive to the club, expect their ire.
It is a fair question as to why there's only been one protest though.
Anyway man, it's all fear. Fear your doing the wrong thing, fear the others actions will cause harm, fear the club might split in two and you'll lose all at made it special an communal. People are just scared. You can't be too harsh in extreme conditions. Let's just hope it's all resolved when we're home.
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fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Most people outside of Coventry don't realise it's a boycott
not at all, we'd much prefer do as I do. we also don't want you to sing sisu out because we told you too, we want you to sing sisu out because it's what you feel. Most of us can understand your desire to going and support the team, none of us can understand how you can be in the presence of Fisher and not want to sing sisu out.
The lack of protests at sixfields isn't a problem because the protests would achieve something because they almost certainly wouldn't. the lack of protests at sixfields is a problem because it's suggests approval (or at least acceptance) especially when that lack of protest is combined with hundreds or thousands of posts criticising the people or the arguments of those criticising sisu and/or critasing acl or the council significantly more than critasing sisu.
Nick
Administrator
Why would somebody be weak for going? This is the stuff I don't get.
play_in_skyblue_stripes
Well-Known Member
If someone did an analysis on political leaning (ie extreme left wing, left wing, center , right wing, extreme right wing on on those people who are more anti CCC/ACL than anti SISU I wonder if a correlation would be found?
Are right wing people more inclined to back SISU or has political leaning nothing to do with it?
I dont know the answer to my hypothetical question but it would be interesting to know.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Again. Not particularly relevant.
And just for parity: can you show your working?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Plenty of left wingers hate the council. But there's a definite correlation between those who assume incompetence and greed in politics and those that have been desperate for the conspiracy stories to be true.
Speaking of which: did I miss the GCBTTR statement post JR?
Edit: guess not "server not responding"
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Moral decision. It absolutely is not. Its a choice based on personal commitment to follow a leisure activity that charges money. The fact the club has dicked us about by moving to Northampton makes it hard for some people but morality doesnt come in to it. Dont try an elevate this into some sort of crusade about right and wrong.
If you follow your logic I have just as much right to say you have poor morals for letting down the team in their time of need and that demonstrates lack of character and poor judgement. I would never say that of course though.
I don't think it does to be honest, people like Grendel and Torch have great opinions on things like homosexulaity, transexuality and equality. We've seen more bigotry and misogyny from the side of the debate I'm on unfortunately.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
It's a matter of conjecture. Each of us argue here because we see the very problems differently.
This can not just be about Sixfields. CCFC left the Arena and that could have been for the Butts as much as Sixfields.
The stance is a huge one made by hedge fund owners with little or no regard for anyone.
The flip side of that is the scant regard given by the arena owners who have been equally void of any humility towards the towns predicament and it's long suffering football club, prefereing to treat the club as though it was any old tenant.
CCFC should be the life and soul of it's community.
Wheter you go or not go to sixfields will make little difference to the current stance which will be played out to conclusion regardless.
Many fans don't go because they can't afford the trip,have not got the transport or whatever so it's easy to become a protester.
Some go because they simply want to watch their football team. Some simply made up their minds they won't go but I'm sure that figure would change if the team was in a higher league. It's because we are down in the lower leagues, the decision not to bother is easier.
All of those reason's have merit.
I live in hope this debacle will reach a conclusion soon. The hedge fund owners have been a tragic tenure but they are keeping the club alive and looking for an exit I'm sure of that. This has been a disaster from the start for them and they have fought the only way THEY know to.
We need new owners, investors and a stadium in Coventry. The franchise is a very valuable one potentially.
I see no purpose in ACL what so ever and never have. The council wanted control of a stadium they sort of rode in and rescued but failed to consider the football club properly in that strategy. they are not responsible for the football club but they have a duty to the community to help local business as much as anything else. Whether they agree a deal over the stadium with Otium or not they will face the same backlash from any owner of CCFC. Some sort of 'ownership' of the arena must be on the table.
I worry that the hedge fund owners stance is so protracted that they will eventually give up and cut their losses leaving us with a liquidated club. Just how will we feel about the council serving the best interest of it's community then?
I can see the headlines now: "why the hell didn't the council offer the bloody stadium at a price, we'd still have a football club" etc etc
yes it's despicable actions from the hedge fund but the council had better be clear what IT's intentions are and as much as Otium have a plan A or B I hope the council have one to.
This can not just be about Sixfields. CCFC left the Arena and that could have been for the Butts as much as Sixfields.
The stance is a huge one made by hedge fund owners with little or no regard for anyone.
The flip side of that is the scant regard given by the arena owners who have been equally void of any humility towards the towns predicament and it's long suffering football club, prefereing to treat the club as though it was any old tenant.
CCFC should be the life and soul of it's community.
Wheter you go or not go to sixfields will make little difference to the current stance which will be played out to conclusion regardless.
Many fans don't go because they can't afford the trip,have not got the transport or whatever so it's easy to become a protester.
Some go because they simply want to watch their football team. Some simply made up their minds they won't go but I'm sure that figure would change if the team was in a higher league. It's because we are down in the lower leagues, the decision not to bother is easier.
All of those reason's have merit.
I live in hope this debacle will reach a conclusion soon. The hedge fund owners have been a tragic tenure but they are keeping the club alive and looking for an exit I'm sure of that. This has been a disaster from the start for them and they have fought the only way THEY know to.
We need new owners, investors and a stadium in Coventry. The franchise is a very valuable one potentially.
I see no purpose in ACL what so ever and never have. The council wanted control of a stadium they sort of rode in and rescued but failed to consider the football club properly in that strategy. they are not responsible for the football club but they have a duty to the community to help local business as much as anything else. Whether they agree a deal over the stadium with Otium or not they will face the same backlash from any owner of CCFC. Some sort of 'ownership' of the arena must be on the table.
I worry that the hedge fund owners stance is so protracted that they will eventually give up and cut their losses leaving us with a liquidated club. Just how will we feel about the council serving the best interest of it's community then?
I can see the headlines now: "why the hell didn't the council offer the bloody stadium at a price, we'd still have a football club" etc etc
yes it's despicable actions from the hedge fund but the council had better be clear what IT's intentions are and as much as Otium have a plan A or B I hope the council have one to.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Maybe you can't lump them in with other owners, and when you look at their actions it's clear that their strategy is utter bollocks. They clearly went for a quick buck return and fucked it up spectacularly.
Their only chance of ever getting anywhere near a return is to invest in the football side and try to obtain success on the pitch. We need to get back to Coventry ASAP. I think they are not going to leave by choice, and I can't see how they can be forced out, so better to put all the energy into achieving the return of the club in the first instance.
Toatally agree - there does seem to be a libertarian element in some of the anti council stuff - ie they must be on the take because they have been in power since before the war etc. See also some of the anti Cov Tel stuff as well.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
i know, a damn shame.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Not particularly sure that's the preserve of the Right either, no matter how much Labour and the Guardian would like to pretend all left wing voters are muesli knitting, one legged lesbians. See the rise of UKIP in the north. (I say this as a left wing muesli knitting lesbian BTW).
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
We define ourselves by what we are not.
If I believe that I am strong willed for staying away no matter how much I want to go, then by definition all those that do go are not strong.
If I have some uncertainty about my position I will fight for it all the more in public, almost externalising the internal argument. Hence why teenagers are obsessed with sexuality and why homophobes tend to be closet gays. Similarly it's the lowest social classes that are most threatened by immigration because they are insecure in their position in society.
Fear and doubt man. It's what's for dinner.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Personally, I go because my son wants to continue to see his team and I want him to see his team. If he didn’t want to go or decided to go and support Arsenal, Chelsea or Man Utd then I wouldn’t go. It may sound trite, but that’s the truth of the matter.
I’ve said a zillion times that I do not have a problem with those who decide not to attend, after all its freedom of choice and all that, but I do have a problem when certain posters decide to tell me I am wrong or have a lack of morals, etc. That’s bollocks; it’s nothing to do with morals. I’m not smoking in a closed car with him inside. I’m not giving him a can of lager to keep him quiet. I’m not letting him play violent video games. I don’t hit him. I volunteer in a local charity shop once a month. I volunteer as a “taxi” and take elderly people to hospital to see their relatives. I’m not a racist. I’m not a homophobe. I pay my taxes. I give to charity. I don’t cheat on my wife. I don’t steal. However (and here’s the thing), I do go to watch a game of football with an 8 year old boy.
I don’t feel bad or guilty for going to see CCFC. I don’t feel I have to explain my decision to you or anyone else. I may try (as I have above) but I don’t HAVE to. Regardless of what a load of anonymous blokes think I will still go. If they show respect in asking why then I will try and answer in a similar fashion. If they don’t then again I will answer similarly.
The ONE thing that will stop me going is my boy, if he said he didn’t want to go then we wouldn’t go. I don’t think that would happen - we went to ten away games last season and we’ll increase that this coming season too if we can – but you never know.
“... what you think is right isn't the same as knowing what is right.”
I’ve said a zillion times that I do not have a problem with those who decide not to attend, after all its freedom of choice and all that, but I do have a problem when certain posters decide to tell me I am wrong or have a lack of morals, etc. That’s bollocks; it’s nothing to do with morals. I’m not smoking in a closed car with him inside. I’m not giving him a can of lager to keep him quiet. I’m not letting him play violent video games. I don’t hit him. I volunteer in a local charity shop once a month. I volunteer as a “taxi” and take elderly people to hospital to see their relatives. I’m not a racist. I’m not a homophobe. I pay my taxes. I give to charity. I don’t cheat on my wife. I don’t steal. However (and here’s the thing), I do go to watch a game of football with an 8 year old boy.
I don’t feel bad or guilty for going to see CCFC. I don’t feel I have to explain my decision to you or anyone else. I may try (as I have above) but I don’t HAVE to. Regardless of what a load of anonymous blokes think I will still go. If they show respect in asking why then I will try and answer in a similar fashion. If they don’t then again I will answer similarly.
The ONE thing that will stop me going is my boy, if he said he didn’t want to go then we wouldn’t go. I don’t think that would happen - we went to ten away games last season and we’ll increase that this coming season too if we can – but you never know.
“... what you think is right isn't the same as knowing what is right.”