In sickness and in health (2 Viewers)

[Grendel]

How is it so damned difficult for some people to see who the real enemy is?

Did the British people, during the last war, blame Belgium for letting Germany march across them (again) - NO.
Did they blame Switzerland for remaining neutral (again)- NO.
Did they blame the USA for being late to join in (again) - NO.
No, they focused on defeating Nazi Germany, the real enemy.

Blaming ACL, Higgs, the council, Football League Hoffman, Richardson, etc for our current predicament is pointless. There is only one party that needs its arse kicking to resolve the problem and that is SISU and if sacrifices need to be made to do this, then so be it.

Who the hell taught you history? Your first comment regarding belgium was of course the "Casus beli" that bought Britain into conflict in the Great War. The Swiss comment is frankly bewildering. The USA comment again is more prevelant in historical terms in World War 1 and then you blather on about Nazi Germany. Just bizarre.

 

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[NorthernWisdom]

How is it so damned difficult for some people to see who the real enemy is?

Did the British people, during the last war, blame Belgium for letting Germany march across them (again) - NO.
Did they blame Switzerland for remaining neutral (again)- NO.
Did they blame the USA for being late to join in (again) - NO.
No, they focused on defeating Nazi Germany, the real enemy.

Blaming ACL, Higgs, the council, Football League Hoffman, Richardson, etc for our current predicament is pointless. There is only one party that needs its arse kicking to resolve the problem and that is SISU and if sacrifices need to be made to do this, then so be it.

Of course we also allied ourselves with Stalin...

 

[italiahorse]

If those of you can't understand how the system works then don't just assume you are right.
We keep hearing 150k rent was offered. That is incorrect so please drop that point.

There are two sides to every dispute like it or not and there has to be two sides coming together in order for a solution to be found.

The fact some on here are spouting that there is only one solution and that is SISU must go at all cost merely tells me you have no thought for the very survival of CCFC.

I will state it as many times as it takes: I'm no fan of SISU and there attitude and decision making. And there is a BUT. There always is if you are going to try and find a solution. ACL/Council at this point in time (regardless of the history to this dispute) are indeed in a position to offer a deal to Otium to come back to the Ricoh. Until they make such a formal offer I find it difficult to believe in their motives as much as it is to believe in SISU's motives.

Like it or not we are where we are at this moment and it can be fixed.

Your again missing the point.
SISU don't negotiate, they tell you what they want and there is no compromise. In this 2 sided debate what have SISU contributed? When they don't get what they want they stress everybody involved in some sort of business tantrum. ACL, CCC, CCFC fans, FL etc have all been mugged.
When I see your name against a post I know it's going to be more SISU drivel. Once again you have not disappointed.

 

[skybluericoh]

If you are referring to a marriage in your title I couldn't agree with you more. I've been married for 26 years and intend to be until the day one of us dies. That said, it doesn't mean we don't fall out. Just like any relationship there will be times when we don't se eye to eye and there will always be someone at fault in the 1st place, then that person needs to say sorry and undo the hurt and try and put right their wrong. I am struggling to see what I have done to cause the fall out between me and my club, but we have had a major fall out. I have told my club what is wrong and it is now down to them to put it right. Call me stubborn but until my clubs offers an olive branch and are willing to do the right thing to but our relationship back to the same or better footing than it was, I'm having a hissy fit and not giving into them.

What SISU have done is probably as bad as your wife sleeping with your brother or best mate, don't think I can forgive them, end off.

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

It's alright saying I'm not for SISU but.When I hear a but come you can be sure that means then again I may be !
Your either for them or against them and the vast majority of us hate them with a passion as they are the chief culprits in all this trouble,they should get out and let someone come in who know how to run a Football club.
Tim Fisher is loathed and lets not pretend otherwise as he is just an arrogant man in a suit who hasn't a clue about the real passion of a Fan,and shouldn't be let anywhere near a Football Club ! He should be running a Holiday Camp somewhere !

Well he should be running.......away! Other than that I don't care much

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

I never said there was equal measures of blame!

James most are fully aware that was not at all Joy's statement!? Are you actually using that too? (prove it to me and I'll retract it)
Like the 150k rent offer, also not true.

Christ people just use the facts not your own misguided thoughts.

"Christ people just use the facts not your own misguided thoughts"..........................and you are free of this crime I take it?

 

[Paxman II]

OK Cheshire I'll bite.

Take just one point repeated over and over.
150k rent was offered to SISU.
True or False?

It's false but how many on here continue to mention it as though it was true?

 

[JHarding1987]

Spot on covcity4life. ACL & CCC do not give a shit. If they did they wouldn't have fleeced the club & helped put it where it is. They are just trying now to keep fans on side after realising bolt, barn door scenario.

 

[italiahorse]

OK Cheshire I'll bite.

Take just one point repeated over and over.
150k rent was offered to SISU.
True or False?

It's false but how many on here continue to mention it as though it was true?

It's true ...... SISU didn't like it over 10 years.
If I was Birmingham City I would ask for the same deal at the Ricoh.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Pax the last time i checked acl ccc don't own ccfc maybe you fail to understand this ?

In a dispute there are two parties in this case SISU, who we all know are useless and who we all dispprove of and ACL/CCC who have been unreasonable and two-faced, this is just my opinion of course, but this Knight on a White Horse image isn't them. They knew that they'd still benefit from CCFC Fans despite CCFC not being there because ACL knew that fans would protest at the home of Coventry City, what is needed is a boycott of the Ricoh Arena as well as Sixfields.

I personally feel more of a pull to attend Sixfields then any ladies match that is played in comparison.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

On the Godwin's law thing, when fans (like Edgy) say give Sisu what they want (the Ricoh) and they won't do something nasty like putting us into liquidation, and others give them the Ricoh and they will sell up and leave..
It's very hard not to use an appeasement analogy.... And that's fair enough, part of our culture not to give in to bullies is based on that Chamberlain history.

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

OK Cheshire I'll bite.

Take just one point repeated over and over.
150k rent was offered to SISU.
True or False?

It's false but how many on here continue to mention it as though it was true?

Truth is none of us know. And that is very frustrating. However, it was stated publically and as such that gave license for SISU to pick up the phone and say "OK lets get it on". But did you hear Fisher on CWR state that they would not return to the RICOH at all...unless ACL could give them the 10 points back? A childish and petulant response. I dislike how SISU have acted over the whole time they have been in control, I accept that both parties need to cooperate to achieve a solution. SISU are seemingly not willing too.

 

[blend]

Now I'm no ACL fan as much as the next man, however there is a big poker tournament on at the Ricoh this weekend and my brother is playing in it. I'll be going up the casino this evening to rail him for an hour or so. I love that casino - one of the best in the country and something to be proud of for Coventry.

I shall have an extra beer just for you Paxman.

Not sure what that has to do with my football club whom SISU have done nothing but rip apart ever since they arrived. Until they go my focus will be 100% on anything that helps to get rid of them. I'm not really interested in side issues that are pretty irrelevant. It wouldn't matter what other parties had done, we'd still be fucked under SISU.

 

[thaiskyblue]

no they do not. you are wrong. your posting privileges have been revoked for 48hours.

uh ?

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Pax
You argue constantly that the 150k rent was not offered to sisu....
Do you know it wasn't? Or is your own argument based on your own conjecture to support a faltering sisu case for the defence?

 

[covmark]

Pax
You argue constantly that the 150k rent was not offered to sisu....
Do you know it wasn't? Or is your own argument based on your own conjecture to support a faltering sisu case for the defence?

Wasn't it offered to ccfc ltd and not otium, with all the crap that's gone on my brain is fried so I could be wrong

 

[skybluegnome]

acl care shitsu don't give a monkeys. Is it that difficult.

YOu really believe that....you need to wake up and smell the coffee.....they are no better than the present owners of the club...

 

[skybluegnome]

Pax
Quite how you conclude that SISU and acl are equally responsible for this sorry tale beggars belief.

They are not

Sisu are responsible for the decline of ccfc over a continued period.Quite why you won't consider the evidence and conclude same leads me to be concerned for your sanity!

You don't have to return a unanimous verdict. Majority will do?
SISU guilty or not guilty of running ccfc to almost extinction?

Another one who needs to wake up and smell the coffee. ACL or no better than the present owners....ACL haven't been paying the wages of the players and staff week in and week out to keep the club going....If ACL really cared about the club then they would stop arranging meaningless games on a Sunday, to entice the fans away from watching the team....and get round the table and talk about how the owners and ACL can work together...

 

[Paxman II]

The offer was made to the administrator of CCFC Ltd which in itself was pointless. It included a 10 year agreement of rent starting at
150k and rising dependent on league status and a whole bunch of other stuff none of which included any of those revenue stream ideas so important to the club.
It was a dumb offer and not made to the controlling party of the football club at all - and frankly more publicity stunt than anything.

But wait a minute....ACL can't be so dastardly could they?

 

[dongonzalos]

The offer was made to the administrator of CCFC Ltd which in itself was pointless. It included a 10 year agreement of rent starting at
150k and rising dependent on league status and a whole bunch of other stuff none of which included any of those revenue stream ideas so important to the club.
It was a dumb offer and not made to the controlling party of the football club at all - and frankly more publicity stunt than anything.

But wait a minute....ACL can't be so dastardly could they?

I presume SISU called them out then and said yes we want that offer...........

 

[James Smith]

The offer was made to the administrator of CCFC Ltd which in itself was pointless. It included a 10 year agreement of rent starting at
150k and rising dependent on league status and a whole bunch of other stuff none of which included any of those revenue stream ideas so important to the club.
It was a dumb offer and not made to the controlling party of the football club at all - and frankly more publicity stunt than anything.

But wait a minute....ACL can't be so dastardly could they?

Can you show me where the ACL offer was written down and what it actually contained?

 

[Paxman II]

Can you show me where the ACL offer was written down and what it actually contained?

What am I your baby sitter?

 

[James Smith]

What am I your baby sitter?

I hope not. However I have been unable to find details of the offer anywhere despite doing a fair few Google searches. There's the Les Reid tweets but nothing with real details.

 

[Jack Griffin]

This is what the BBC reported.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23515733
and Sky http://www1.skysports.com/football/...t-minute-rental-deal-to-remain-at-ricoh-arena
and ITV http://www.itv.com/news/central/story/2013-07-30/fans-await-coventry-decision/
and Coventry Telegraph http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/ricoh-arena-offers-massively-reduce-5385570

Whatever Paxman contends about no offer being made I think those are the rates on offer for renting for the stadium provided a long term deal is signed & the parties cease legal actions & as suggested in the CET article negotiations could then continue about other income streams.

 

[James Smith]

The offer was made to the administrator of CCFC Ltd which in itself was pointless. It included a 10 year agreement of rent starting at
150k and rising dependent on league status and a whole bunch of other stuff none of which included any of those revenue stream ideas so important to the club.
It was a dumb offer and not made to the controlling party of the football club at all - and frankly more publicity stunt than anything.

But wait a minute....ACL can't be so dastardly could they?

Okay well thanks to Jack Griffin I have managed to find something reported about details of the 150K deal but it isn't anything like the full of details. The Telegraph reports this:

The ACL offer revealed today includes discussions about Coventry City obtaining more matchday revenue, including food and drink sales, which are tied up in a contract with private company Compass.

The deal tabled today at a crucial creditors' meeting with administrator Paul Appleton would see the rent go up to £400,000 if the Sky Blues are promoted to the Championship, and down to £100,000 if they are relegated to Division Two.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/ricoh-arena-offers-massively-reduce-5385570

And Les Reid on his Twitter sent these:

Les Reid ‏@Lesreidpolitics 30 Jul
BREAKING EXCLUSIVE 4: ACL rent offer & signing off CVA to end #CCFC admin offered only IF owners Sisu scraps Judicial Review against council

Les Reid ‏@Lesreidpolitics 30 Jul
BREAKING 3: As tweeted earlier, crucially, council Ricoh firm ACL offering #CCFC no deal on part or all stadium ownership

Les Reid ‏@Lesreidpolitics 30 Jul
BREAKING EXCLUSIVE 2: Ricoh firm ACL suing Northampton Town in High Court for damages over proposed Coventry City groundshare

Les Reid ‏@Lesreidpolitics 30 Jul
BREAKING EXCLUSIVE 1: Ricoh firm ACL seek 10-yr rent deal with #CCFC of £150k in League 1, £400k Championship, £100k L2

Les Reid ‏@Lesreidpolitics 30 Jul
BREAKING (More) confirmed ACL seeking 10 year rent agreement with #CCFC. But NO offer on table for part Ricoh ownership

Sounds like F&B were on the cards again. Wondering if anyone has seen any more details than that?

 

[James Smith]

This is what the BBC reported.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23515733
and Sky http://www1.skysports.com/football/...t-minute-rental-deal-to-remain-at-ricoh-arena
and ITV http://www.itv.com/news/central/story/2013-07-30/fans-await-coventry-decision/
and Coventry Telegraph http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/ricoh-arena-offers-massively-reduce-5385570

Whatever Paxman contends about no offer being made I think those are the rates on offer for renting for the stadium provided a long term deal is signed & the parties cease legal actions & as suggested in the CET article negotiations could then continue about other income streams.

Thanks!

 

[NorthernWisdom]

It was only offered with the conditions that Appleton said was illegal however (dropping of the JR) and even when Appleton asked them to go away and revise their offer to make it legal (one could argue that potentially that was an invitation to a position of acceptance), it wasn't done.

Now, as conspiracy theories are rife over here, my question would be why this wasn't revised?

Is it along the lines of Hoffman's 'pay the rent' offer and other such stunts, an offer they *knew* couldn't be accepted, but is done for the PR gain rather than an actual attempt to find a solution?

As of yet, they have still refused to speak to Fisher anymore than Fisher has spoken to them also... which is all a little pathetic on all sides.

 

[James Smith]

It was only offered with the conditions that Appleton said was illegal however (dropping of the JR) and even when Appleton asked them to go away and revise their offer to make it legal (one could argue that potentially that was an invitation to a position of acceptance), it wasn't done.

Now, as conspiracy theories are rife over here, my question would be why this wasn't revised?

Is it along the lines of Hoffman's 'pay the rent' offer and other such stunts, an offer they *knew* couldn't be accepted, but is done for the PR gain rather than an actual attempt to find a solution?

As of yet, they have still refused to speak to Fisher anymore than Fisher has spoken to them also... which is all a little pathetic on all sides.

I'm not an administration expert or I wouldn't be living where I am and earning as little as I do, but why couldn't everyone just ignore Appleton and his legal niceties? SISU just accept the rent deal (they've broken it before so what would it matter to them) ACL sign CVA and we don't get docked 10 points. SISU could then a couple of weeks later say "Naff Off" to ACL, condition X was a non starter so CCFC is still playing in Northampton and we'd not have a points deduction. SISU would probably have been well advised to drop the JR anyway given how that turned out for them. Or is that a bit simplistic?

 

[Noggin]

It was only offered with the conditions that Appleton said was illegal however (dropping of the JR) and even when Appleton asked them to go away and revise their offer to make it legal (one could argue that potentially that was an invitation to a position of acceptance), it wasn't done.

Now, as conspiracy theories are rife over here, my question would be why this wasn't revised?

Is it along the lines of Hoffman's 'pay the rent' offer and other such stunts, an offer they *knew* couldn't be accepted, but is done for the PR gain rather than an actual attempt to find a solution?

As of yet, they have still refused to speak to Fisher anymore than Fisher has spoken to them also... which is all a little pathetic on all sides.

If they had made it legal though they weren't getting what they wanted, there is of course a very simple solution to that, for sisu to sign an agreement giving them what they wanted at the same time as acl sign the original cva. This solution is so damn obvious that it shows either sisu weren't willing to accept the 150k offer or the 150k wasn't really an offer.

I feel like sisu are the problem because they could easily have said we are willing to drop the JR and sign a 10 year lease at 150k a year but we can't do it as part of a cva (assuming appleton is correct with that), the fact they didn't say that suggests they weren't willing too.

For me though it's irrelevant, sisu are almost completely to blame even if the 150k offer wasn't legit as we know the 400k one was, the 400k one is more than fair and infinitely superior for everyone involved, the fans, sisu and acl compared to what we have now.

The thing that is so ridiculous is that even if sisu really planned to build a stadium and only planned to play in the rioch for say 4 years of a 10 year lease signing it and having to pay 6 years at 400k while not using it is still massively superior to the option they have chosen. which to me can only mean they are still planning to win by distressing acl into giving in.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Another one who needs to wake up and smell the coffee. ACL or no better than the present owners....ACL haven't been paying the wages of the players and staff week in and week out to keep the club going....If ACL really cared about the club then they would stop arranging meaningless games on a Sunday, to entice the fans away from watching the team....and get round the table and talk about how the owners and ACL can work together...

Coffee smelt long ago. Certainly agree with your last point about working together acl and SISU
However irrespective of the technicalities of the offer its very clear to me and the vast majority that the lack of stadium ownership being also offered was why SISU took our football team off to Northampton ...no other.

Nescafes back with you to drink...!

 

[James Smith]

Another one who needs to wake up and smell the coffee. ACL or no better than the present owners....ACL haven't been paying the wages of the players and staff week in and week out to keep the club going....If ACL really cared about the club then they would stop arranging meaningless games on a Sunday, to entice the fans away from watching the team....and get round the table and talk about how the owners and ACL can work together...

If SISU really cared about the fans they wouldn't have moved us 34-5 miles away from our home city. They also wouldn't have screwed up the finances by doing the same as there is no commercial sense in moving us to Northampton.

 

[Jack Griffin]

It was only offered with the conditions that Appleton said was illegal however (dropping of the JR) and even when Appleton asked them to go away and revise their offer to make it legal (one could argue that potentially that was an invitation to a position of acceptance), it wasn't done.

Appleton never said anything was illegal. This is what the papers reported him as saying. http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-ltd-moves-towards-5431504

Reacting to ACL's statement, Mr Appleton added: "I have noted ACL's statement released today with some interest.

"Put simply, we do not understand the comments being made by ACL with regard to the ability to put forward new proposals.

"As I said in my earlier statement, the proposals ACL required simply did not comply with the law. They were offered the chance to submit modifications, which DID comply with the law, yet for reasons best known to themselves, they chose not to do so.

"The Company will now proceed according to our proposals made as Administrator that were accepted by the majority of creditors including ACL."

A lack of compliance with the law of administration & illegality are 2 different things, if ACL had done anything illegal they could be prosecuted.

We are still left none the wiser for that statement as to what the issue was.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I'll grant you your pedantry as I'd probably do the same

Doesn't alter my general point however, that their refusal to change their proposal (and their dogmatic refusal to talk directly with Fisher) suggests an attempt to make an offer that is not actually an offer.

In the PR stakes, an offer that can't be accepted is a rather good tactic...

 

[Jack Griffin]

I'll grant you your pedantry as I'd probably do the same

Doesn't alter my general point however, that their refusal to change their proposal (and their dogmatic refusal to talk directly with Fisher) suggests an attempt to make an offer that is not actually an offer.

In the PR stakes, an offer that can't be accepted is a rather good tactic...

So what was the reason to prevent going ahead on the terms offered? Come back & tell me if you ever find out.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

So what was the reason to prevent going ahead on the terms offered? Come back & tell me if you ever find out.

The fact the offer could never be accepted even if they wanted to, as it didn't comply with the law.