Kevin Malaga placed on transfer list (1 Viewer)

[Sick Boy]

No. And where did I state, or remotely insinuate we should? :facepalm:

'And when he was bought in to help Thorn in the transfer window and we signed less players than our relegation peers. That was a masterpiece too.'

 

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[Sick Boy]

The scout / manager identifies the players. The director of football (or whetever title applies this week) agrees the terms of the deal

I imagine that Waggot decided to trust a judgement and recommendation by the manager.

 

[Sick Boy]

Let me put it this way. I have departmental managers at work. They make decisions, and I back them or not as the case may be. If their judgment is wrong, they take the flak.

But the ultimate responsibility? It's mine

So you believe a football manager has no real responsibility themselves for judging and signing players?

 

[Sick Boy]

To answer the Thorn question, I don't know. But for you to draw the concluson that he has to move directly to a bigger club, lest he's the failure you always asserted is a farce. But I'm not surprised, alas, by you thinking so. After Livingston sacked Paul Lambert, he went to Wycombe and then Colchester before finding success at Norwich, didn't he?

Why should he waste his time with a smaller club though, after all, he is clearly has the potential to be one of the greatest managers in Europe, if not the world! Comparing him to Paul Lambert is a little unfair, he clearly is a cut above and Lambert could only dream of possessing his knowledge and insight into the game.

All we can do is wait and see what happens...perhaps no one will go near him, not even in a lower league club. Foolish thinking of course, he has the potential to lead the country to World Cup 2018....

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

'And when he was bought in to help Thorn in the transfer window and we signed less players than our relegation peers. That was a masterpiece too.'

Well, what was he bought in for then in December ahead of the January window? I presumed we had a budget - established by his mate Fisher. That's not Pompey-style profligacy, is it?

Why therefore did we only sign two unknown players directly from other club's youth teams - Nimely and Norwood; whilst our contemporaries signed 8 or 9 players?

Was Waggott bought here only to sell Jutkiewitz? If so, shameful backing for a club in a perilous situation by Fisher?

Or was be introduced to secure players? In which case he failed. Can't have it both ways old boy

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

So you believe a football manager has no real responsibility themselves for judging and signing players?

Read. The. Words. I'm stating he has little or no influence over the terms of the contract.

If Malaga's got a three-year deal, that's more Waggott that Thorn

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Why should he waste his time with a smaller club though, after all, he is clearly has the potential to be one of the greatest managers in Europe, if not the world! Comparing him to Paul Lambert is a little unfair, he clearly is a cut above and Lambert could only dream of possessing his knowledge and insight into the game.

You know wha they say about sarcasm.

Thanks for proving it so succinctly

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well, what was he bought in for then in December ahead of the January window? I presumed we had a budget - established by his mate Fisher. That's not Pompey-style profligacy, is it?

Why therefore did we only sign two unknown players directly from other club's youth teams - Nimely and Norwood; whilst our contemporaries signed 8 or 9 players?

Was Waggott bought here only to sell Jutkiewitz? If so, shameful backing for a club in a perilous situation by Fisher?

Or was be introduced to secure players? In which case he failed. Can't have it both ways old boy

Fisher worked within the budget constraints given to him by SISU-the cash was not forthcoming, but it seems you would rather we have gone down the Appleton route of 'buy now, pay later'. We couldn't afford to compete for a majority of the players our peers were also after so we missed out on them-you yourself have stated 'We were one of the third least funded teams in the division so that is where we should have finished anyway' so many times in the past.

 

[Sick Boy]

Well, what was he bought in for then in December ahead of the January window? I presumed we had a budget - established by his mate Fisher. That's not Pompey-style profligacy, is it?

Why therefore did we only sign two unknown players directly from other club's youth teams - Nimely and Norwood; whilst our contemporaries signed 8 or 9 players?

Was Waggott bought here only to sell Jutkiewitz? If so, shameful backing for a club in a perilous situation by Fisher?

Or was be introduced to secure players? In which case he failed. Can't have it both ways old boy

The budget would have been the responsibility of Tim Fisher, I don't imagine that he is part of SISU. A lot of people clearly want money thrown at the squad for loan fees, % of wages, basically money that the club doesn't have!

Are you seriously describing Nimley & Norwood as 'unknown players'??

'whilst our contemporaries signed 8 or 9 players' - maybe we didn't have the finances to compete with them? Again, maybe we could have gambled?

Remind me, how many players have we signed since the end of last season?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Let me put it this way. I have departmental managers at work. They make decisions, and I back them or not as the case may be. If their judgment is wrong, they take the flak.

But the ultimate responsibility? It's mine

The board decided to give Thorn the chance to build a squad as he insisted he could make things work if he were given more financial backing. As far as was possible, they did this, but the hangover from last season didn't budge and it was clear that Thorn hadn't addressed the root problems-Fisher and Waggott take the responsibility for not sacking the man immediately following last season. Putting such trust in an incompetent manager was their biggest mistake.

 

[Nick]

What so we don't sign enough players and it is SISU / Waggot / Fisher's fault and when we over sign it is their fault too?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Fisher worked within the budget constraints given to him by SISU-the cash was not forthcoming, but it seems you would rather we have gone down the Appleton route of 'buy now, pay later'. We couldn't afford to compete for a majority of the players our peers were also after so we missed out on them-you yourself have stated 'We were one of the third least funded teams in the division so that is where we should have finished anyway' so many times in the past.

No. What I'm stating is that if our known budget only stretched to two unknown kids; why draft in - at cost - an expensively-waged man to oversee their arrival?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

What so we don't sign enough players and it is SISU / Waggot / Fisher's fault and when we over sign it is their fault too?

No-one has stated that; but ludicrous though that sounds - that's the way Thorn's vilified on here

 

[Sick Boy]

Read. The. Words. I'm stating he has little or no influence over the terms of the contract.

If Malaga's got a three-year deal, that's more Waggott that Thorn

The same Malaga who was supposedly being chased by a PL club? Perhaps Thorn suggested a long term deal? After all, signing a player chased by a PL club is a real coup for a L1 club, isn't it?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No way! Not according to Grenduffy. And sacking the manager 3 games into the season? The was much better than after last season.

And when he was bought in to help Thorn in the transfer window and we signed less players than our relegation peers. That was a masterpiece too. Saved the training ground getting cluttered up with untidy players allowing Thorn the clarity to concentrate all his efforts on the untried kids. And how did the plump oaf repay him?

Waggott is a king among men. Remember that or you'll get told off!

You know wha they say about sarcasm.

Thanks for proving it so succinctly

Simply following your example MMM.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The board decided to give Thorn the chance to build a squad as he insisted he could make things work if he were given more financial backing. As far as was possible, they did this, but the hangover from last season didn't budge and it was clear that Thorn hadn't addressed the root problems-Fisher and Waggott take the responsibility for not sacking the man immediately following last season. Putting such trust in an incompetent manager was their biggest mistake.

So, if their confidence in his abilities was so gossamer thin as to sack him after three games; why endorse his signings with a 3-year deal?

The two don't stack up

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Simply following your example MMM.

Neh, I do it with panache!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No. What I'm stating is that if our known budget only stretched to two unknown kids; why draft in - at cost - an expensively-waged man to oversee their arrival?

Because without this 'expensively waged man', chances are we wouldn't have managed even the few loanees we did; given that nobody else remained at the club capable of conducting transfer negotiations.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The same Malaga who was supposedly being chased by a PL club? Perhaps Thorn suggested a long term deal? After all, signing a player chased by a PL club is a real coup for a L1 club, isn't it?

Thorn would ahve had no say in the length of the deal. Do you remember the interview he gave when Jutkiewitz was sold to 'Boro?

 

[Sick Boy]

Calling Nimley and Norwood unknown kid is laughable.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So, if their confidence in his abilities was so gossamer thin as to sack him after three games; why endorse his signings with a 3-year deal?

The two don't stack up

It was a mistake on Waggott/Fisher's part, as I have already referred to (and did quite a bit yesterday). It was an error in judgement to let Thorn keep the reins.

 

[Sick Boy]

Thorn would ahve had no say in the length of the deal. Do you remember the interview he gave when Jutkiewitz was sold to 'Boro?

It is funny that other managers don't rely on excuse after excuse isn't it?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Because without this 'expensively waged man', chances are we wouldn't have managed even the few loanees we did; given that nobody else remained at the club capable of conducting transfer negotiations.

You really believe that? Or do you think this 'expensively waged man' was mainly introduced to get the best possible price for Jutkiewitz; with the secondary responsibility of bringing in players - at which he failed?

 

[Sick Boy]

It was a mistake on Waggott/Fisher's part, as I have already referred to (and did quite a bit yesterday). It was an error in judgement to let Thorn keep the reins.

It was a major error of judgement not brining in Robins when we first interested back when Boothroyd was sacked.

 

[Sick Boy]

You really believe that? Or do you think this 'expensively waged man' was mainly introduced to get the best possible price for Jutkiewitz; with the secondary responsibility of bringing in players - at which he failed?

Stop vilifying people, it's mean not very nice.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You really believe that? Or do you think this 'expensively waged man' was mainly introduced to get the best possible price for Jutkiewitz; with the secondary responsibility of bringing in players - at which he failed?

He didn't do badly getting us a good price for Juke, and did well in securing a good deal for Bigi (both departures were inevitable sooner or later). You point to his failure in backing Thorn in the second half of last season, but disregard how heavily he backed him in the summer-you can't have it both ways, surely?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Stop vilifying people, it's mean not very nice.

If that's your take on humour - congratulations. It made me smile more than anything you've written in months :claping hands:

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It was a major error of judgement not brining in Robins when we first interested back when Boothroyd was sacked.

Imagine if Robins goes on to be a success and MMM is forced to concede some praise to Fisher/Waggott for the appointment. I won't hold my breath.

 

[Sick Boy]

Imagine if Robins goes on to be a success and MMM is forced to concede some praise to Fisher/Waggott for the appointment. I won't hold my breath.

I am sure that he holds Ken Dulieu in high regard for making the correct appointment

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

He didn't do badly getting us a good price for Juke, and did well in securing a good deal for Bigi (both departures were inevitable sooner or later). You point to his failure in backing Thorn in the second half of last season, but disregard how heavily he backed him in the summer-you can't have it both ways, surely?

I don't disagree on the 'Boro deal. Decent price. But comparison with our relegation peers - who fared much better with regards reinforcement during he run-in - shows he didn't do well. Or that he didn't have the funds. In which case his remit was aimed more at departures than arrivals. Which makes the description of his arrival as being to 'help Andy Thorn' disingenuous, doesn't it? He either failed to prioduce the arrivals, or the budget wasn't there.

They latterly admitted 'mistakes' which gave rise to a barrage of signings over the summer. In that context, yes I can have it 'both ways' as they themselves with this admission acknowledged they had done wrong and changed policy? N'est-ce pas?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Imagine if Robins goes on to be a success and MMM is forced to concede some praise to Fisher/Waggott for the appointment. I won't hold my breath.

No, don't label me with that. I have confidence and hope in Robins.

I do think though, that if the appointment was to be made it should have been done so over the summer. Our current league position is something for which this decision is attributable more than the performance of any of the three managers used this term.

I dislike those who anoint Waggott's feet with nothing-but praise; when for me, he's yet to produce much of that he was introduced to bring to the table

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't disagree on the 'Boro deal. Decent price. But comparison with our relegation peers - who fared much better with regards reinforcement during he run-in - shows he didn't do well. Or that he didn't have the funds. In which case his remit was aimed more at departures than arrivals. Which makes the description of his arrival as being to 'help Andy Thorn' disingenuous, doesn't it? He either failed to prioduce the arrivals, or the budget wasn't there.

They latterly admitted 'mistakes' which gave rise to a barrage of signings over the summer. In that context, yes I can have it 'both ways' as they themselves with this admission acknowledged they had done wrong and changed policy? N'est-ce pas?

Hmmm, so he's not totally useless now then. Our rivals were simply much better funded, that's all there is to it-we had to sign players who would improve the squad with a transfer budget of £0 and very little wage allowance; what exactly were you expecting? Forest had already spent over £1m the previous summer and had a squad full of players who'd have walked into our first team (indeed one of their reserves is doing just that right now), to illustrate the example. When the funds were made available he backed Thorn as far as he could-as I've said countless times, this was the biggest mistake of all and one we have paid for with a terrible start to the season.

None of this detracts from Thorn's big shortcomings as a manager-which I think you are slowly coming round to accepting.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No, don't label me with that. I have confidence and hope in Robins.

I do think though, that if the appointment was to be made it should have been done so over the summer. Our current league position is something for which this decision is attributable more than the performance of any of the three managers used this term.

I dislike those who anoint Waggott's feet with nothing-but praise; when for me, he's yet to produce much of that he was introduced to bring to the table

Then the point remains quite simple-if the appointment made by Fisher/Waggott is a success, then they will have succeeded in their remit for the football club and will be praiseworthy. In which case I expect you to eat humble pie.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Then the point remains quite simple-if the appointment made by Fisher/Waggott is a success, then they will have succeeded in their remit for the football club and will be praiseworthy. In which case I expect you to eat humble pie.

You can expect what the hell you want. If its the right appointment ill applaud it appropriately. But I'll always hold the opinion that the way it was handled was a disaster. For which Waggott holds responsibility

 

[TrueSkyBlueLiam]

Ridiculous. Absoloutley ridiculous. He was by far our best defender until he was dropped from the side for some reason. He was afraid to go in for a challenge like Brown and Wood seem to be. He isnt costing us the earth in wages and he's a damn sight better than brown so why kick him out?