Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
I’m just wondering if things are any better? 
King et al vs SISU (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Flying Fokker
- Start date
Saddlebrains
Well-Known Member
On the field and training facilities a million times better
Commercial side and logistically it is probably even more of a shambles than under SISU
Commercial side and logistically it is probably even more of a shambles than under SISU
mrfr
Well-Known Member
I think Douglas has been fortunate to have had immediate on-field success to help set the tone around the club during his honeymoon period. Take away the playoffs, Wembley and the coaching staff turning two good players into transformational assets and you’re left with a shambolic kit launch, the ongoing season ticket debacle, ticket prices going up and generally poor comms from the club.
That being said he’s obviously doing a better job than SISU by virtue of actually treating the club like a going concern, but I think we need to judge his ownership in isolation of the on-field achievements at least until his impact on transfer policy has started yeilding positive results.
I’ll be delighted when he has figured out the long-term stadium plans, and fixed ryton and got our youth setup back into a place where it reliably creates first-team players and made it so people in the local area feel like the club is an integral part of the community.
That being said he’s obviously doing a better job than SISU by virtue of actually treating the club like a going concern, but I think we need to judge his ownership in isolation of the on-field achievements at least until his impact on transfer policy has started yeilding positive results.
I’ll be delighted when he has figured out the long-term stadium plans, and fixed ryton and got our youth setup back into a place where it reliably creates first-team players and made it so people in the local area feel like the club is an integral part of the community.
SkyBlueCharlie9
Well-Known Member
The club was in a terrible state off the pitch when King took over. Takes time to get personnel right and create the right culture. Sure he's made mistakes but he seems shrewd enough to learn.
He's been in charge 9 months or so?
He's been in charge 9 months or so?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Don't think anyone thought sisu were that bad after 8 months so let's see where we are a bit further down the line.
Though I find it inconceivable King will turn out to be anywhere near as bad as sisu were.
Though I find it inconceivable King will turn out to be anywhere near as bad as sisu were.
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
It’s pretty evident the commercial side of things needs a complete overhaul.
Theonlywayisskyblue
Well-Known Member
On the playing side, in Robins we trust. Big thumbs up to Doug for giving him the transfer money which SISU wouldn’t have done. Great to see the upgrade of Ryton and the investment in scouting. Similarly the club shop - but the season ticket fiasco and some of the comms shows the shambolic state that SISU left and the mountain we still have to climb or incompetence from Doug and his team ? Still some way to go but heading in the right direction for me
alexccfc99
Well-Known Member
Gyökeres would have gone 6 months earlier than he did had SISU remained, I don’t think it’s hard to argue against that
King has negotiated in my opinion a great deal for Gyökeres and although some disagree a fair one for Hamer as well
Stadium deal puts that issue to the back of our minds for the foreseeable and the new changing rooms look fantastic and it’s great to see a new pitch and more CCFC branding around the place
However I do get the boxes, whilst in my opinion they were massively underpriced in recent years you can’t increase the price of something by about 180% and not really change the service too much
Happy to give benefit of the doubt on any mistakes so far as let’s be honest they are hardly major and so far more good has happened than bad
King has negotiated in my opinion a great deal for Gyökeres and although some disagree a fair one for Hamer as well
Stadium deal puts that issue to the back of our minds for the foreseeable and the new changing rooms look fantastic and it’s great to see a new pitch and more CCFC branding around the place
However I do get the boxes, whilst in my opinion they were massively underpriced in recent years you can’t increase the price of something by about 180% and not really change the service too much
Happy to give benefit of the doubt on any mistakes so far as let’s be honest they are hardly major and so far more good has happened than bad
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Competency off the pitch is still a shambles.
However ambition, and intention is vastly improved. Investment in Ryton is welcome, and investment in the stadium means we’re at the CBS indefinitely now.
Allowing the manager the overwhelming majority of transfer fee income is something that no owner has done in my lifetime, so we should be hugely encouraged by that.
I don’t mean to be rude, but anyone who thinks we’d be better off with Sisu in charge now is frankly a moron
However ambition, and intention is vastly improved. Investment in Ryton is welcome, and investment in the stadium means we’re at the CBS indefinitely now.
Allowing the manager the overwhelming majority of transfer fee income is something that no owner has done in my lifetime, so we should be hugely encouraged by that.
I don’t mean to be rude, but anyone who thinks we’d be better off with Sisu in charge now is frankly a moron
slowpoke
Well-Known Member
Who do you speak to who thinks sisu weren’t that bad.
Pros
- Held out for better deals for Vik and Hamer - no way sisu would’ve got those prices (one would’ve gone in Jan for millions less, other probably this summer, again for a lot less than price achieved)
- Supported us enough to get to play offs by keeping players and bringing in McNally - this has been huge for club in terms of perception/attracting better calibre of players, getting value for hamer and Vik, more ST sales etc
- Gave Robins and Adi four year deals
- No doubt would’ve increased revenues - thought Prem season ticket was a great idea
- Big improvements to infrastructure - training ground, pitch etc
- Brought a professionalism and focus to be be Club that hasn’t been there for years
Oh and got glass fixed.
Cons
- Still work in progress regarding pricing and commercials etc. I’d imagine he’s trying to clear up mess of the past (under pricing of boxes etc) and some people who probably weren’t great at jobs under SISU. As long as he acknowledges mistakes and learns from them I think we can give a bit of leeway. If he doesn’t, deserves stick as sone pricing is just wrong.
Ultimately, he was lucky to come in at a time where we had two valuable players, however, no doubt in my mind who’d I’d rather have in charge. Early days though. Let’s see where we are in terms of everything at end of the season
- Held out for better deals for Vik and Hamer - no way sisu would’ve got those prices (one would’ve gone in Jan for millions less, other probably this summer, again for a lot less than price achieved)
- Supported us enough to get to play offs by keeping players and bringing in McNally - this has been huge for club in terms of perception/attracting better calibre of players, getting value for hamer and Vik, more ST sales etc
- Gave Robins and Adi four year deals
- No doubt would’ve increased revenues - thought Prem season ticket was a great idea
- Big improvements to infrastructure - training ground, pitch etc
- Brought a professionalism and focus to be be Club that hasn’t been there for years
Oh and got glass fixed.
Cons
- Still work in progress regarding pricing and commercials etc. I’d imagine he’s trying to clear up mess of the past (under pricing of boxes etc) and some people who probably weren’t great at jobs under SISU. As long as he acknowledges mistakes and learns from them I think we can give a bit of leeway. If he doesn’t, deserves stick as sone pricing is just wrong.
Ultimately, he was lucky to come in at a time where we had two valuable players, however, no doubt in my mind who’d I’d rather have in charge. Early days though. Let’s see where we are in terms of everything at end of the season
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jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Way to early to say.....but personally I feel some murkiness remains with regards the actual ownership of the club & the rather bizarre last-ditch incompetent stadium bid.....and indeed, the potential wider fraser group involvement.......
...and of course Doug wouldn't have had the assets to sell if it wasn't for sisu......
...and of course Doug wouldn't have had the assets to sell if it wasn't for sisu......
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
I think King has been incredibly lucky (ducks for cover)
- Took over at a time of stadium uncertainty with Wasps still technically in situ. Ended up with a long term deal at a stadium where the wealthy owners seem to be onside, no Wasps (which was far from certain at day 1)
- Took over a squad with possibly £50m of talent (Vic / Gus 37m, Sheaf? O’Hare?) and where the “deadwood” high earners (Wag, Walker, Kane) were coming to the end of their deals
- Play off run against expectations and associated revenue.
- High ST sales on back of above.
At the time of posting, we have spent / committed to spending approx half of the £37m that we should ultimately receive.
Overall, we “feel” like a more secure / professional club and in turn sponsors / advertisers / players will take us more seriously than under SISU.
As someone mentioned above, the money behind King, how the SISU takeover was structured and what Hoffman is doing in the Frasers camp still mean things are a bit murky.
- Took over at a time of stadium uncertainty with Wasps still technically in situ. Ended up with a long term deal at a stadium where the wealthy owners seem to be onside, no Wasps (which was far from certain at day 1)
- Took over a squad with possibly £50m of talent (Vic / Gus 37m, Sheaf? O’Hare?) and where the “deadwood” high earners (Wag, Walker, Kane) were coming to the end of their deals
- Play off run against expectations and associated revenue.
- High ST sales on back of above.
At the time of posting, we have spent / committed to spending approx half of the £37m that we should ultimately receive.
Overall, we “feel” like a more secure / professional club and in turn sponsors / advertisers / players will take us more seriously than under SISU.
As someone mentioned above, the money behind King, how the SISU takeover was structured and what Hoffman is doing in the Frasers camp still mean things are a bit murky.
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
You could try reading the three words after that
Boicey
Well-Known Member
Have training facilities actually improved yet? I know a pitch is in prep, is it finished?
Doug spent virtually no money until he knew Vik was off. He's been pretty lucky to start off with £35m of transfers in his pot. And even luckier MR and that pre-Doug squad delivered so well last season too boost revenues.
I'll be happy if he's a jammy bastard this year as well.
Doug spent virtually no money until he knew Vik was off. He's been pretty lucky to start off with £35m of transfers in his pot. And even luckier MR and that pre-Doug squad delivered so well last season too boost revenues.
I'll be happy if he's a jammy bastard this year as well.
Skybluedownunder
Well-Known Member
Well they fixed the broken window what more do you want?
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WestEndAgro
Well-Known Member
He's not a jammy bastard, however if we had beaten Luton.......
duffer
Well-Known Member
Personally speaking, I'm entirely happy to be rid of SISU but I'm also far too cynical to completely trust King... yet.
Off the pitch it's clearly still a bit of a mess, and (imho) they've got the kid's (edit: walk-up) pricing in particular horribly wrong. I hope they'll look at that again. I'm also not very comfortable that the club and the stadium are still completely separated.
On the pitch though, it feels like King is supporting Robins well, which is all I'd ask for. The manager is still the best thing about the club, and as long as he's getting what he needs I guess I can forgive a lot of the other stuff.
All just my opinion, obviously, others will differ!
Off the pitch it's clearly still a bit of a mess, and (imho) they've got the kid's (edit: walk-up) pricing in particular horribly wrong. I hope they'll look at that again. I'm also not very comfortable that the club and the stadium are still completely separated.
On the pitch though, it feels like King is supporting Robins well, which is all I'd ask for. The manager is still the best thing about the club, and as long as he's getting what he needs I guess I can forgive a lot of the other stuff.
All just my opinion, obviously, others will differ!
slowpoke
Well-Known Member
They were bad from day one should never have got the gig and progressively got worse.
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
No they weren’t, we bought Fox and Dann that January and in the summer spent plenty too (Bell, Westwood, Eastwood)
JulianDarbyFTW
Well-Known Member
There's no doubt that if you take Sisu's reign overall, they were awful. That said, the last 3 or 4 years they seemed to get a fair bit right too. Re-employing the manager, halting their terrible communication strategy, providing some (limited) funding to the team on the pitch, bringing in Dave Boddy for expertise. I genuinely believe that their intent was, broadly speaking, to do good things, but they had too many incompetent fools running the show in the early years, and one in the latter. I'm sure if they had their time again they'd have done things very, very differently.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I don't think you've read my post properly.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Tbf even though I had grave doubts about SISU, I consoled myself that they couldn't possibly be as bad as Robinson and McGinnity
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
We seem to be progressing off the field but on the football side the commercial side is still a disaster but I would rather he deals with the football side first.
Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
Neutral then? Me, it’s a different season of course. The way the squad is being built suggests we could make the play-offs. I’m certain that SISU would not provide the funds that Robins had at his disposal.
I’m naturally glad to see SISU gone. King has pushed things through as well: Season ticket cost, executive box increases, improvements to the training ground.
We were lucky to get that shot at the Prem, but we seem to be building on the success.
fatso
Well-Known Member
I’m just wondering if things are any better?
Attachments
Understandably there’s lots of criticism here about the commercial aspects but this isn’t going to change overnight and there’s a clear effort to hire more staff, so things should improve. It’s also obvious there’s been a focus on improvement with Robins praising the efforts of King and others on several occasions, so it’s possible the limited people available have not been able to focus on everything at once.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Undecided yet overall.
But definitely better overall so far. Finances for the squad are more trustworthy. But no details of the deal for the sale. Would reaching the Prem give SISU a big payday? Since the takeover we have sold 2 players for about what the value of our club was seen as.
Hopefully they didn't value Gyokeres and Hamer anywhere near what we got for them. Many of our own supporters even valued them much lower.
We shouldn't want King hanged for the oversights so far. He took over a massive project. We're definitely going in the right direction. But it's the hidden details I'm unsure about. SISU wouldn't undersell. They sold at what they saw as top value. Maybe for what they had put in plus a massive bonus for promotion within a certain amount of time.
But definitely better overall so far. Finances for the squad are more trustworthy. But no details of the deal for the sale. Would reaching the Prem give SISU a big payday? Since the takeover we have sold 2 players for about what the value of our club was seen as.
Hopefully they didn't value Gyokeres and Hamer anywhere near what we got for them. Many of our own supporters even valued them much lower.
We shouldn't want King hanged for the oversights so far. He took over a massive project. We're definitely going in the right direction. But it's the hidden details I'm unsure about. SISU wouldn't undersell. They sold at what they saw as top value. Maybe for what they had put in plus a massive bonus for promotion within a certain amount of time.
