SydneySkyBlue
Member
I wouldn't be so sure of that
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/coventry-city-fc/coventry-city-fc-news/2011/07/12/andy-thorn-is-the-right-man-for-coventry-city-says-gary-hoffman-92746-29036508/
Long term contact for Thorn (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter dongonzalos
- Start date
I wouldn't be so sure of that
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/coventry-city-fc/coventry-city-fc-news/2011/07/12/andy-thorn-is-the-right-man-for-coventry-city-says-gary-hoffman-92746-29036508/
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It's barely surviving is it? I think that's the point.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Of course I am sure he means every word. Have a look at some of the Ranson / Dowie quotes on the last takeover, it's hilarious.
SydneySkyBlue
Member
Of course these things are far from guaranteed and we can only speculate. Remember though that this is the guy that resigned due to SISU's lack of support for the manager and the direction in which they were taking the club as a consequence. I think if anyone's going to be an advocate of seeing what the manager can do given the right level of support it might be him.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You seem pleased. Let's see how pleased you are in 12 months time.
kg82
Well-Known Member
Now, I don't know how you can "seem" pleased in written context? Reading it, it just seems he is trying to explain why he thinks Hoffman would be a better option to what we have now.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No my take was he was trying to assure me that Thorn will still be manager. Personally that fills me with dread but some people view Thorn as the ant Sisu man in the Sisu camp and want him to stay for no other logical reason than that.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
You see I have entirely different perspective on this. When AB joined Cov, I enjoyed his confidence. I thought maybe this is what we need. I did a bit of research to see how gutted the colchester fans were to lose him. I was a bit alarmed to find out they were quite pleased to see him gone.
Most saying he came in played direct football which in the first half of the season other teams were caught out by it. When it came to playing teams for the second time in the second half of the season they sussed his tactics and dealt with it and he failed to come up with any alternative and their season died. They did not enjoy his style of football. I thought to myself like it or not maybe this is the only way to get out of this division so lets see how it goes and reserve judgement.
Here is what was going on at Colchester :-
Following a spectacular end-of-season collapse, the Essex side are on the verge of throwing away what, for the best part of the season, had looked to be a nailed on top six finish.
But in a typically open and forthright press conference yesterday, Boothroyd refused to just simply say what any disgruntled supporters might want to hear. Revelations from the U’s boss included:
– An insistence that things ‘aren’t going wrong’;
– Admittance that he was ‘expecting’ this recent downturn in form;
– The claim that people ‘don’t understand’ a manager’s job;
– And that – despite his rolling contract – he will stay at the club ‘until he is told otherwise’.
Boothroyd’s physical, direct and ‘percentage’ brand of football already had fans’ opinions split long before a miserable run of form which has seen a return of just six points from the last available 33.
Then he comes to Cov. I can honestly say I did not enjoy the style of football, but we were winning so I still got a sense of satisfaction. But honestly I would have prefered if I got that satisfaction and the pleasure of seeing the game played the way I enjoy.
Then the same thing happens to Cov, the opposition seem to work out our approach and we win one in 16, now I have no satisfaction and also I am not enjoying the football.
Not including the signing of Marlon (which is an entirely different debate) but it also added to my dislike of AB as a manager of our club.
Then comes in AT, same group of players we are more successful and playing attractive football. I was enjoying football again. Hence my warm feelings towards him. Now AT has had a decline in results however.
In my opinion AB decline was due to his tactics and is lack of ability to come up with a different way of playing football. I feel this is a fact supported by the colchester experience. I dont think AB lost a significant amount of players during this period of success to decline.
I think AT's decline is not due to the end of a honeymoon period I think it is due to a combination of SISU and players wanting to move on, reaching that age, etc... Losing Westwood, Turner, King, Gunnarson, Juke, McPake, Carsley, (Eastwood making himself not available) gaining Murphy, Norwood, Nimely, Mcdonald (unfortunatley injured for majority of time).
You may say some of this AT's doing / decisions etc... but he would have wanted replacements and not been allowed to get them.
I also feel that this why sheff, bell and baker have had extensions because he knows when a player goes he never gets replaced despite promises because we cant afford the replacements.
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cloughie
Well-Known Member
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cloughie
Well-Known Member
I have been going since the mid 60's and that won't make my opinion any more valid than anyone else's,
yet although i disagree with you on many opinions about Our team I have to agree It would be pure folly to give Thorn or any manager a long term contract considering our past record of paying them off within 2years and then paying a new manager
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Mine isn't any more valid either and that was not really relevant to the specific point other than I suspect some who make these wild comments about massive contracts I suspect are more interested in making the point that supporting the club. No manager can possibly have a 5 year contract in a league where the average lifespan is 15 months. It's just senseless.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
I wish I knew how many games I had been too. Not missed too many home games over the past 25 years, saw my first game in 78/79. I guess if you add cup games and some away fixtures (some seasons more than others, much less frequent now) I guess 30 games a season for 25 years is 750 and only a few games in each of the seaons before the cup win. It would be nice to mark my 1,000th game with something crazy or even just an extra pint, but I have no idea when it will be. Perhaps I'll just say its 800 and count from now 
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I wish I knew how many games I had been too. Not missed too many home games over the past 25 years, saw my first game in 78/79. I guess if you add cup games and some away fixtures (some seasons more than others, much less frequent now) I guess 30 games a season for 25 years is 750 and only a few games in each of the seaons before the cup win. It would be nice to mark my 1,000th game with something crazy or even just an extra pint, but I have no idea when it will be. Perhaps I'll just say its 800 and count from now
I guessed 30 a season as well. Count in minutes and it gets really depressing.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Count in money for those tickets, add programmes, merchandise, food and drink, travel costs and 2012 weighting, I guess that is even more depressing. For relatively bright adult I still get childishly excited when things happen like the winner on Saturday. It makes it all seem worthwhile and I wouldn't swap one moment of it, even the bad times like now.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
So you end up on average paying them 30months for 18months work?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No compensation on most rolling contracts.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
My first game was '72. Went to a few after that but not really seriously until 77/78. Started going to away games as well from the 78/79 season until around 1999 when I started going away less and less.
I wish I knew how many games I had been too. Not missed too many home games over the past 25 years, saw my first game in 78/79. I guess if you add cup games and some away fixtures (some seasons more than others, much less frequent now) I guess 30 games a season for 25 years is 750 and only a few games in each of the seaons before the cup win. It would be nice to mark my 1,000th game with something crazy or even just an extra pint, but I have no idea when it will be. Perhaps I'll just say its 800 and count from now
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
it seems to me that the choices are
a) dont think AT is good enough - and has to go (when we can get a decent repacement)
or
b) AT has potential and wonder how he would be with some funds to play with and so provide some (but it wont be much)
or
c) AT is all we can afford and we have to accept that what ever division we are in
or
d) new owners new man or their choice
In all those scenarios the best AT should get is a 12 month rolling contract, if anything at all. Anything else currently just does not make financial sense at all.
a) dont think AT is good enough - and has to go (when we can get a decent repacement)
or
b) AT has potential and wonder how he would be with some funds to play with and so provide some (but it wont be much)
or
c) AT is all we can afford and we have to accept that what ever division we are in
or
d) new owners new man or their choice
In all those scenarios the best AT should get is a 12 month rolling contract, if anything at all. Anything else currently just does not make financial sense at all.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Under the circumstances I think AT is doing a pretty decent job considering what he has to work with and the financial contraints placed on him. However, I wouldn't give him any kind of new deal or contract extension until the season has ended. The board (whoever they may be) can then assess the situation and decide from there. For now, I would personally stick with AT.
skybluehugh
New Member
If he gets any form of contract I will not go into the ground again the man is delusion and never sees the same game as the fans
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Don't think you cab talk for the fans. Maybe u should say he never sees the same game as you.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Point well made. Only down side of that is if he does perform under new owners we lose him for nothing.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I think he should have a contract for life that gets passed down through his family. That way we can argue about Thorn for eternity. Duffy might explode, the poor chap.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I listen to what you say all of the time. I agree with a lot of what you say, but when you make comments like this I wonder if your memory is playing tricks with you.
Yes I agree that we enjoyed being near the top of the table, but how many of us enjoyed having a stiff neck trying to follow the ball under AB? We did well until other teams worked out how to beat us. You say football style is over rated. Did you enjoy the long ball game? Did you enjoy falling down the table whilst watching the shite we were playing? We had good players before the SISU firesale. We had King who could run past players. He was reduced to chasing long balls. He would have 2 or 3 players on him. We had midfield players that could play. The ball went over their heads all the time. Under AB we could have played with 7 defenders and 3 strikers. We would have had a better chance of winning.
Yes we saw an improvement of the players under AT. They were allowed to play football instead of hoofball. We all enjoyed watching AT's style of play than AB's style. You then say that the team went from playing well under AT last season to being mediocre this season under him. Memory problems again? Most players he finished with last season are playing for other managers now and were not replaced. This includes players that are now with Prem teams, a player that has been playing in europe, King, and have just watched another two of the players we had play in a cup final. Then you wonder why the team is mediocre compared to the end of last season when AT took over. Now AT has been able to replace 2 of the players he has lost with decent loan players we are doing better. You still think we would be near the bottom if he could have kept the squad that AB had?
AT should not get a pat on the back every time we win. On the other hand he does not deserve all the shite he gets after each defeat. We nearly all agree that most of our opponents bench in most games would walk into our 1st team. This shows how poor our squad is. We are so weak we have to put a player on the bench that don't give a shite about us. Then some fans are shouting that AT should put him on :facepalm: Wake up and look at what he has had to work with this season.
SydneySkyBlue
Member
I'm afraid logic goes out the window with a few on here Astute.
Apparently we just feel sorry for him because "he's a nice guy".
Apparently we just feel sorry for him because "he's a nice guy".
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Logic goes out of the window when we have daily circular debates on the same topic, or more specifically, the same man.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
we battered reading on last day of season,ddint score though
but even so i had a smile on my face,with a better squad maybe thorn could be our lambert or adkins,who knows?
if we stay up i say give thorn another year,we might see rapid improvement in his managerial skills,i wanna get back to dominating teams like we did in final stages of last year
but must add our squad is not that much worse than others around us,dont use that as an excuse for when thorn loses,it makes you look pathetic
but even so i had a smile on my face,with a better squad maybe thorn could be our lambert or adkins,who knows?
if we stay up i say give thorn another year,we might see rapid improvement in his managerial skills,i wanna get back to dominating teams like we did in final stages of last year
but must add our squad is not that much worse than others around us,dont use that as an excuse for when thorn loses,it makes you look pathetic
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Astute
Well-Known Member
I am glad our squad or team is as good as Forest. I am glad we have had the quality of Portsmouth this season. I am glad our squad is as good as Bristol City. I am glad...............
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
my sentiments exactly
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I'll try and reply as concisely as I can.
On the first bit I maintain that style is not that relevant a factor. Ultimately winning is all that mattes or you flatter to deceive. No-one would have complained if we had kept winning under Boothroyd. I also think he was undone by what had happened the season before under Coleman. Fans were fed up at the dramatic collapse 2 seasons running. But winning is all that matters otherwise Wenger would not now be criticised as he is and George Graham would not have been worshipped by the same set of fans. Our own supporters do not neccesarily embody skill above effort either. When Jordan Henderson was here many fans phoned the local radio to complain that Robbie Simpson (hard working and limited) should be playing instead. Clive Platt is very popular and rightly so but ultimately he is an exponent of direct style as opposed to pure football.
The mediocre players I am referring to are Bell, Baker, Clingan etc. Bell in particular came to the fore under the early games with Thorn but once the contract was signed soon returned to type. King is irrelevant. He was never going to stay and was a season bonus bought purely with the relationship to Boothroyd (also he scored one goal in open play with Thorn as manager).
I don't think the bench is always stronger on the opposite team in fact look at many of the struggling teams and generally the squads are weak. Also some games last season under Bootroyd we saw the same problem when we had the transfer embargo. Eric Black was often criticised when he lost a game - that is football management and comes with the territory, Thorn to be fair doesn't seem bothered anyway so why the fuss?
Ultimately this is a results game regardless of resources and over the season results are a struggle. We would be the only club in the world if that meant the manager was not scrutinised in some circles. We would perhaps win on the morality stakes but morals and winning football matches are not always intertwined.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Just hope he is not a top manager screwed by SISU and goes on to have a top career else where at a club run correctly ie the WBA model and we end up looking back regretting
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I'd give him at least another year regardless, especially if we are not on another cost cutting season and he might actually be able to be competitive in the transfer market.
When you have so little to spend and such a small squad every single signing has to come off, that's why McDonald's signing gets so much stick: because we really need him.
Murphy has been a good replacement, Christie and Thomas have been brought on well and Nimley, Norwood and Gardner have all been decent loan signings IMO.
So I feel he can spot a player, he plays the style of football I like, and yes he's a nice guy. I see no reason not to keep him to be honest.
When you have so little to spend and such a small squad every single signing has to come off, that's why McDonald's signing gets so much stick: because we really need him.
Murphy has been a good replacement, Christie and Thomas have been brought on well and Nimley, Norwood and Gardner have all been decent loan signings IMO.
So I feel he can spot a player, he plays the style of football I like, and yes he's a nice guy. I see no reason not to keep him to be honest.
Donnie Brasco
New Member
So do you not feel motivating the lads to play for 9+4 minutes would be a good quality that Thorn seems to lack? I think now the lads know they are really in the schtum they are giving their all to try and keep the club up. I believe that Thorn has had little to do with the recent ability to play for the whole match instead of switching off in the final 10-15 minutes.