More than a little concerned (3 Viewers)

robbiekeane · Mar 3, 2017

I'm more than a little concerned by the comments in the latest accounts. Specifically regarding cat 2 status being something of an anomaly in league two. The obvious interpretation of that is that they won't be prioritising this next year.

My concern is around the current ownerships game plan with the club. Previously I thought they were shit at executing their game plan which was to somehow make a success of the club for profit . Then I was concerned that actually their gameplan was to keep things ticking over until they got a windfall from one of their numerous money making schemes.

Now though, my fear is simply that they do not have one at all.

We're missing something guys. We must be.

Let's be pragmatic. We know they are never getting their money back. They must know they're never getting their money back. So whats the craic? What's the actual benefit to keeping this club ownership? I'm convinced it's not spite as hedge funds don't act with emotion.

Oldskyblue - is there any financial benefit to the overarching business of having us on the books? Are they hoping for Ryton or jr2?

Liquid Gold · Mar 3, 2017

Don't tell anybody but we're fucked

higgs · Mar 3, 2017

What owners we did get they have rightly fuckd us up I have a feeling they will move us out of cov again and most of us that haven't already given up will find that the final straw what a sad end to such a great one time family club

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Willo The Wisp · Mar 3, 2017

My take is they don’t want the Club, but there’s a benefit to them keeping it…namely that it avoids Sisu having to crystallise a £30m+ loss on their balance sheet.

Let’s be absolutely clear – Sisu don’t give a monkey’s about the Club, or its fan base. This is why they continue to ignore any protests.

What we will see is them continuing to contribute the absolute minimum to keep the Club afloat.

In summary:

Slade’s job - not really in danger, despite the shocking results…as he’s a very cheap option.

Academy - Cat 2 status is gone, as retaining it will require paying more than the minimum (and they don’t plan to be around to reap any future benefits from retaining Cat 2).

Ricoh - no chance of remaining there with Sisu in charge. As Tiger Tim has already explained, relegation will mean less season ticket sales, a perfect excuse for investing less on the playing side…and so the downward spiral continues.

Relegation – 100pc nailed on, but no matter; with the Club in League 2 (or lower), they won’t need the Ricoh…and playing at Nuneaton or Hinckley should be cheaper.

Takeover - you’re right; they know they're never getting their money back. However, selling (at a reasonable price) will mean crystallising a massive loss. So, despite there being interest, I reckon it’s unlikely.

I expect this hapless situation to continue until Ryton is sold, and the potential windfall of JR2 is exhausted…at which point Sisu will put the Club into administration, claiming that it’s no longer sustainable, and walk away.

Only then can we look to the future…with a combination of new owners and fan ownership.

All in my humble opinion, of course!

Nick · Mar 3, 2017

They just want it to be able to tick along to the side with no fuss.

Liquid Gold · Mar 3, 2017

Nick said:
we just want it to be able to tick along to the side with no fuss.

Nick · Mar 3, 2017

Liquid Gold said:

Suffolk sky blues · Mar 3, 2017

I have to stay away I'm not good with slow death. liquidation.

ccfcway · Mar 3, 2017

Nick said:
They just want it to be able to tick along to the side with no fuss.

took us over in championship, now about to drop to league two

"tick along" ?

robbiekeane · Mar 3, 2017

Nick said:
They just want it to be able to tick along to the side with no fuss.

But genuine question ...why? Is it about crystalizing a loss on the balance sheet? I mean, I'm no accountant or finance expert but something losing millions after millions with little or negative returns can't be much better then just little sucking it up.n

Hobo · Mar 3, 2017

robbiekeane said:
I'm more than a little concerned by the comments in the latest accounts. Specifically regarding cat 2 status being something of an anomaly in league two. The obvious interpretation of that is that they won't be prioritising this next year.

My concern is around the current ownerships game plan with the club. Previously I thought they were shit at executing their game plan which was to somehow make a success of the club for profit . Then I was concerned that actually their gameplan was to keep things ticking over until they got a windfall from one of their numerous money making schemes.

Now though, my fear is simply that they do not have one at all.

We're missing something guys. We must be.

Let's be pragmatic. We know they are never getting their money back. They must know they're never getting their money back. So whats the craic? What's the actual benefit to keeping this club ownership? I'm convinced it's not spite as hedge funds don't act with emotion.

Oldskyblue - is there any financial benefit to the overarching business of having us on the books? Are they hoping for Ryton or jr2?

All their plans for a quick windfall have one by one gone belly up. The only way they could turn things around is by massive investment, but that also holds massive risks as football is a precarious business.

So they have parked the club. Slashed expenditure and stopped it being a drain for money. They are letting it bump along the bottom and not too bothered either way; stagnation or capitulation.

shmmeee · Mar 3, 2017

ccfcway said:
"tick along" ?

You know, like a time bomb.

Willo The Wisp · Mar 4, 2017

It's not losing anything currently, coz they've put the plug in - in fact, as Timbo says, it's making a small profit.

They've lost millions, which they know they won't get back. However, this isn't a loss accountable to their investors until such time as it's crystallised.

However, I agree with Hobo - they've effectively parked the Club whilst JR2 (gamble) and Ryton (inevitability) gets played out - and with Suffolk, who I suspect may have correctly called the end game.

Sick Boy · Mar 4, 2017

As soon as the Ricoh went it was obvious we were going to go down this root but we were told our landlords would want to help us to be successful as it would be to their benefit. Obviously that was never going to be the case.

Sisu are appalling owners but let's not pretend that we have been royally fucked over by our previous owners, CCC and the vulture-like franchise club from London.

bawtryneal · Mar 4, 2017

Nick said:
They just want it to be able to tick along to the side with no fuss.

But it's not ticking along Nick. It's going down the pan.

NortonSkyBlue · Mar 4, 2017

Sick Boy said:
As soon as the Ricoh went it was obvious we were going to go down this root but we were told our landlords would want to help us to be successful as it would be to their benefit. Obviously that was never going to be the case.

Sisu are appalling owners but let's not pretend that we have been royally fucked over by our previous owners, CCC and the vulture-club franchise club from London.

Point the finger all you want but every action has a reaction and the owners have created the animosity amongst the partners at each stage.
Its beating the wife, having affairs and then asking why did she leave me and move in with the nice guy?
Nothing to do with Wasps IMO, they are here because of the owners behavior and it was handed to them on a plate by hubris and incompetence. Business experts? Not by any definition.

robbiekeane · Mar 4, 2017

Willo The Wisp said:
It's not losing anything currently, coz they've put the plug in - in fact, as Timbo says, it's making a small profit.

They've lost millions, which they know they won't get back. However, this isn't a loss accountable to their investors until such time as it's crystallised.

However, I agree with Hobo - they've effectively parked the Club whilst JR2 (gamble) and Ryton (inevitability) gets played out - and with Suffolk, who I suspect may have correctly called the end game.

But it's not is it looking at the latest accounts? It's still making a loss isn't it?

I get what everyone's saying that they just want it to tick along with minimum fuss but what's the difference between that, and just selling up?

NortonSkyBlue · Mar 4, 2017

robbiekeane said:
But it's not is it looking at the latest accounts? It's still making a loss isn't it?

I get what everyone's saying that they just want it to tick along with minimum fuss but what's the difference between that, and just selling up?

If they sell for 10 million then they have lost 32 million. If they hang on they have invested 42 million, lost nothing. There is no incentive to sell and sadly no incentive for anyone to take it off their hands.

stevefloyd · Mar 4, 2017

If the planned boycott of season tickets happens it ticks along if there is an influx of season ticket sales it pays them back quicker so they may fuck off quicker... just a thought

clint van damme · Mar 4, 2017

Suffolk sky blues said:
I have to stay away I'm not good with slow death. liquidation.

But what if they sold our saleable playing assets, (Willis,Stevenson), gave the club away but kept Ryton, and have an agreement with the new owners for say a £500,000 one of payment if we get back in the Championship and a 2 million one of payment if we get into the Premiership. Wouldn't that be better for them than liquidating?

As I said on another thread, I'm a layman when it comes to business finance so happy for it to be pointed out that this is an unfeasible scenario.

Irish Sky Blue · Mar 4, 2017

riyadhskyblue said:
If they sell for 10 million then they have lost 32 million. If they hang on they have invested 42 million, lost nothing. There is no incentive to sell and sadly no incentive for anyone to take it off their hands.

The bit I don't get about that is that we can see they have lost millions and won't be getting it back. Don't the investors, whoever they are, see the same situation, whether the losses are crystallised or not?

stevefloyd · Mar 4, 2017

But whilst it sits on a balance sheet it does no real harm any profits the company makes are offset by the losses.. Riyad is right whrn it sits there but ccfc makes a profit or breaks even its of no real concern to them

NortonSkyBlue · Mar 4, 2017

Irish Sky Blue said:
The bit I don't get about that is that we can see they have lost millions and won't be getting it back. Don't the investors, whoever they are, see the same situation, whether the losses are crystallised or not?

You invest, the hedge fund places the funds, you collect the dividends. Maybe their other funds are doing well so they spread the risk?
The losses only become an issue once the investment is liquidated.

robbiekeane · Mar 4, 2017

riyadhskyblue said:
You invest, the hedge fund places the funds, you collect the dividends. Maybe their other funds are doing well so they spread the risk?
The losses only become an issue once the investment is liquidated.

So by the same token if other funds are doing well and investors are still getting their dividends, why not just sell and accept the loss? Investors don't give a shit right if they're still getting their dividends

robbiekeane · Mar 4, 2017

stevefloyd said:
But whilst it sits on a balance sheet it does no real harm any profits the company makes are offset by the losses.. Riyad is right whrn it sits there but ccfc makes a profit or breaks even its of no real concern to them

Sorry mate struggling to make sense of that

stevefloyd · Mar 4, 2017

Go on a course then... i only wrote it I never professed it made sense

NortonSkyBlue · Mar 4, 2017

robbiekeane said:
Sorry mate struggling to make sense of that

At the moment the 42 million sits in their investment portfolio. Take it out and it becomes a 42 million loss from their investment.

Monkeyface · Mar 4, 2017

stevefloyd said:
If the planned boycott of season tickets happens it ticks along if there is an influx of season ticket sales it pays them back quicker so they may fuck off quicker... just a thought

You make a valid point, but I cannot commit to a season ticket again, nothing to do with L2, purely the owners. We're getting nothing for our money in terms of football, and that's been case (bar a brief spell under Mowbray) for years. My last five season tickets have been purchased because of my love of the club and the connection it brings to my family and friends, nothing else... I just don't think I can bring myself to be made a mug of anymore. They've had plenty of opportunity to show a bit of good will but just treat us like shit. People say our support is shit, but imagine what the decades of failure, especially the last 10 years would do to any other fan base. They've been lucky to have such a dedicated, loyal support, but they just don't give a fuck about us.
Without trying to be all emotive, I started supporting CCFC when my late father started taking me in the 80's. He was a proper 70/80's dad, so we didn't do a lot together, but football was the thing we bonded over. He sadly died in 2012 after a 18 month fight with cancer. During the last few months he could barely stay conscious, but would always ask what was going on at the club. We thought then that things couldn't get any worse, and he was gutted to see what had become of the club. I'm not gonna be party to what these bastards are doing anymore. It's not a decision I've come to lightly, but like so many others I've just reached my limit.

I've made your argument to myself year after year, I won't be doing it again. They could have 15000 st holders and I don't think it would change the direction we are heading in.

stevefloyd · Mar 4, 2017

I was playing devils advocate... I do admit that watching us play is more of a task than a pleasure any more... I will still go because its something I share with my son... I never had the privilege of going with my dad he doesnt like football but without hope I doubt very much I will be attending so many times... that and the extortion they class as car parking... they (shitsu) sure have plenty of ways of ridding CCFC of fans

AVWskyblue · Mar 4, 2017

riyadhskyblue said:
If they sell for 10 million then they have lost 32 million. If they hang on they have invested 42 million, lost nothing. There is no incentive to sell and sadly no incentive for anyone to take it off their hands.

So surely the best form of protest is to take out an advert in one of the top respected financial papers showing a snapshot of the losses made at ccfc since they took over and each year to date, thus showing their investors and the business world in general what a sham sisu really are

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Skyblueweeman · Mar 4, 2017

riyadhskyblue said:
Point the finger all you want but every action has a reaction and the owners have created the animosity amongst the partners at each stage.
Its beating the wife, having affairs and then asking why did she leave me and move in with the nice guy?
Nothing to do with Wasps IMO, they are here because of the owners behavior and it was handed to them on a plate by hubris and incompetence. Business experts? Not by any definition.

To be fair, Wasps took massive advantage of our desperate situation. If they didn't, then our current situation and outlook 'could' look a lot different.

You're right that our owners right royally fucked things up. But Wasps took the situation to their advantage and to our increased disadvantage.

Remember, they're owned by a hedge fund...morals aren't exactly at the top of their agenda and in this instance, it added a big pile of dog shit onto an already steaming pile of dog shit.

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rupert_bear · Mar 4, 2017

AVWskyblue said:
So surely the best form of protest is to take out an advert in one of the top respected financial papers showing a snapshot of the losses made at ccfc since they took over and each year to date, thus showing their investors and the business world in general what a sham sisu really are

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That should have been attempted ages ago better than less than a 100 people chewing the fat with Fisher at the Albany club, in fact I would try and get in the FT a couple of days before that meeting.

NortonSkyBlue · Mar 4, 2017

AVWskyblue said:
So surely the best form of protest is to take out an advert in one of the top respected financial papers showing a snapshot of the losses made at ccfc since they took over and each year to date, thus showing their investors and the business world in general what a sham sisu really are

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Something I have mentioned before, I think it is a risky strategy but one that would yield a reaction from some quarters.
Not sure the investors know they are investing in CCFC though? That's where this falls down.it could be that you are an investor through a third party and know nothing about it.

AVWskyblue · Mar 4, 2017

riyadhskyblue said:
Something I have mentioned before, I think it is a risky strategy but one that would yield a reaction from some quarters.
Not sure the investors know they are investing in CCFC though? That's where this falls down.it could be that you are an investor through a third party and know nothing about it.

All the links eg sisu avro etc can be cited in the ad as they are available for anyone to see in the published accounts, just needs to be highlighted In a clever yet legal way

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Generally Midfield · Mar 4, 2017

Nick said:
They just want it to be able to tick along to the side with no fuss.

Trouble is their view of ticking along doesn't seem to be bothered with what division we're in or where we play!

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