More than a little concerned (3 Viewers)

[Monkeyface]

Just for arguments sake, if you were to do this would it probably be best done in the FT, and even better through the FT online. Would probably be it's most effective and online could be shared and reshared? And how much would this cost? Would be more than happy to contribute.

 

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[robbiekeane]

Go on a course then... i only wrote it I never professed it made sense

I don't need to go on a course you just need to explain things clearly instead of just random mumbling

 

[robbiekeane]

At the moment the 42 million sits in their investment portfolio. Take it out and it becomes a 42 million loss from their investment.

No I got that boss.

Just didn't understand the bit from tesco other guy around profits and losses offsetting each other on the balance sheet...not sure what he means

 

[Sick Boy]

The bit I don't get about that is that we can see they have lost millions and won't be getting it back. Don't the investors, whoever they are, see the same situation, whether the losses are crystallised or not?

I would imagine that it would be part of a wider portfolio and could therefore be offset by other businesses as part of the investment; it is unlikely that they would have sole investors in CCFC.

 

[Sick Boy]

To be fair, Wasps took massive advantage of our desperate situation. If they didn't, then our current situation and outlook 'could' look a lot different.

You're right that our owners right royally fucked things up. But Wasps took the situation to their advantage and to our increased disadvantage.

Remember, they're owned by a hedge fund...morals aren't exactly at the top of their agenda and in this instance, it added a big pile of dog shit onto an already steaming pile of dog shit.


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Remarkably we even had some posters applauding them for their good business sense.

 

[italiahorse]

To be fair, Wasps took massive advantage of our desperate situation. If they didn't, then our current situation and outlook 'could' look a lot different.

You're right that our owners right royally fucked things up. But Wasps took the situation to their advantage and to our increased disadvantage.

Remember, they're owned by a hedge fund...morals aren't exactly at the top of their agenda and in this instance, it added a big pile of dog shit onto an already steaming pile of dog shit.


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We would still be in Northampton waiting for CCC to give up the stadium after ACL had folded.

 

[stevefloyd]

I don't need to go on a course you just need to explain things clearly instead of just random mumbling

I like my random mumblings btw I never meant it as harsh as it may have read

 

[italiahorse]

Remarkably we even had some posters applauding them for their good business sense.

I suggest Sisu cried wolf too many times and CCC took them at their word.
Wasps are in a far better position than less than 5 years ago when they were hours from folding.
I would argue that Wasps management are far in advance of our lot.

 

[italiahorse]

I would imagine that it would be part of a wider portfolio and could therefore be offset by other businesses as part of the investment; it is unlikely that they would have sole investors in CCFC.

Are you available for the Trust meeting should TF pull out ?

 

[its a buzzard]

If the planned boycott of season tickets happens it ticks along if there is an influx of season ticket sales it pays them back quicker so they may fuck off quicker... just a thought

Surely if there's a season ticket boycott then the remorseless decline continues? - not what I understand as "ticking along" And I would have thought that you'd have to sell a fucking shedload of season tickets to "pay back" SISU. Wouldn't that scenario leave them rubbing their hands and deciding to stay put for the foreseeable. Fans are caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

[stevefloyd]

As I say I was playing devils advocate

 

[chiefdave]

Crystallising losses is being mentioned a lot at the moment but unless SISU think they have a good chance of getting a return would they not have been writing down the losses over the last few years. CCFC will be part of a wider portfolio of investments, if other parts of that portfolio are performing well then losing £40m on CCFC isn't going to be a problem.

Look at something like your pension. You know what company your pension is with. You possibly know what plan you are on. How many people know what schemes their plan invests in and of those that do how many know what the individual components of those schemes are?

 

[Brylowes]

If they sell the club for say 3 million the debt is crystallised and becomes a real loss In the eyes
of their shareholders, this is the reason often put forward for them not wanting to sell.
I get that.
But if they file for insolvency and "wind the club up" is the debt crystalised in the same way, does
The debt become a real loss to their shareholders in the same way, and at the same level.
I don't know the answer, if anyone does could they please enlighten me.

 

[robbiekeane]

Crystallising losses is being mentioned a lot at the moment but unless SISU think they have a good chance of getting a return would they not have been writing down the losses over the last few years. CCFC will be part of a wider portfolio of investments, if other parts of that portfolio are performing well then losing £40m on CCFC isn't going to be a problem.

Look at something like your pension. You know what company your pension is with. You possibly know what plan you are on. How many people know what schemes their plan invests in and of those that do how many know what the individual components of those schemes are?

No clue. Could be invested in a firm specialisation in dalmatian fur garments and I'd be none the wiser

 

[Skyblueweeman]

We would still be in Northampton waiting for CCC to give up the stadium after ACL had folded.

Whilst in no way desirable, at least we'd still have a chance of owning our own stadium for the next 250 years and likely be in a much better financial position...


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[italiahorse]

Whilst in no way desirable, at least we'd still have a chance of owning our own stadium for the next 250 years and likely be in a much better financial position...


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No way desirable ?
Sisu would gain and ACL, Higgs and CCC would loose out. Where does CCFC gain ?

 

[Skyblueweeman]

No way desirable ?
Sisu would gain and ACL, Higgs and CCC would loose out. Where does CCFC gain ?

I meant that being in Northampton isn't desirable.

Ultimately I want what's best for our club. Not Wasps. So I'd rather they lost out and the other parties mentioned had the balls to understand that SISU won't be here forever rather than selling to another hedge fund which, as I mentioned, has added more shit on top of what we've already suffered.




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[Rodders1]

Crystallising losses is being mentioned a lot at the moment but unless SISU think they have a good chance of getting a return would they not have been writing down the losses over the last few years. CCFC will be part of a wider portfolio of investments, if other parts of that portfolio are performing well then losing £40m on CCFC isn't going to be a problem.

Look at something like your pension. You know what company your pension is with. You possibly know what plan you are on. How many people know what schemes their plan invests in and of those that do how many know what the individual components of those schemes are?

Surely the balance sheet asset will be reviewed on an annual or periodic basis. Thus the true and fair value of CCFC is certainly not 40 mill. I'd suggest that they have already written off the asset or have made a provision for it in creditors already.

Remember Wasps have to revalue the RICOH on a periodic basis. No accounting firm will agree to the valuation of CCFC being 40 mill.

The one thing I do wonder is if it's only seen as a debtor to SISU. I.E. they currently don't see it as bad debt - unbelievably if so.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Seems that the deal at the higgs expiring has given them an easy excuse to down grade the academy. I doubt they are even fighting to keep it.

 

[davebart]

To be fair, Wasps took massive advantage of our desperate situation. If they didn't, then our current situation and outlook 'could' look a lot different.

You're right that our owners right royally fucked things up. But Wasps took the situation to their advantage and to our increased disadvantage.

Remember, they're owned by a hedge fund...morals aren't exactly at the top of their agenda and in this instance, it added a big pile of dog shit onto an already steaming pile of dog shit.

Nothing upsets a landlord more than their tenant not paying their rent. It was always likely the landlord would want to deal with anyone else at all, even another Hedge Fund, than a defaulting tenant.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Nothing upsets a landlord more than their tenant not paying their rent. It was always likely the landlord would want to deal with anyone else at all, even another Hedge Fund, than a defaulting tenant.

I can't disagree with that but my point still stands. Wasps riding into town still dumped more shit on our future, on top of the poor outlook created by SISU/B.Richardson.


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[NortonSkyBlue]

I can't disagree with that but my point still stands. Wasps riding into town still dumped more shit on our future, on top of the poor outlook created by SISU/B.Richardson.


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Of course Wasps at the Ricoh has dumped more shit on our future.
Undoubtedly and unequivocally, but I don't see them as the cause more the beneficiary of foolish owners intransigence.

 

[skybluetony176]

Crystallising losses is being mentioned a lot at the moment but unless SISU think they have a good chance of getting a return would they not have been writing down the losses over the last few years. CCFC will be part of a wider portfolio of investments, if other parts of that portfolio are performing well then losing £40m on CCFC isn't going to be a problem.

Look at something like your pension. You know what company your pension is with. You possibly know what plan you are on. How many people know what schemes their plan invests in and of those that do how many know what the individual components of those schemes are?

If they are writing down the losses wouldn't adding interest at a a high rate to the debt every year make that a pointless exercise?

 

[shmmeee]

No idea how viable it is but have heard the theory that we are a place to dump debt from elsewhere in their portfolio. Like i say not sure if it's likely or if it's show in the accounts.

 

[smouch1975]

Just for arguments sake, if you were to do this would it probably be best done in the FT, and even better through the FT online. Would probably be it's most effective and online could be shared and reshared? And how much would this cost? Would be more than happy to contribute.

So is this happening then?
OSB to write/proof read.

I'll bung in on this

All the links eg sisu avro etc can be cited in the ad as they are available for anyone to see in the published accounts, just needs to be highlighted In a clever yet legal way

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Something I have mentioned before, I think it is a risky strategy but one that would yield a reaction from some quarters.
Not sure the investors know they are investing in CCFC though? That's where this falls down.it could be that you are an investor through a third party and know nothing about it.

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[rockdude101]

Willo The Wisp - Asset Stripping, basically.

 

[robbiekeane]

No idea how viable it is but have heard the theory that we are a place to dump debt from elsewhere in their portfolio. Like i say not sure if it's likely or if it's show in the accounts.

Please can you explain that

 

[davebart]

I try to imagine what SISU think about owning CCFC. It must be taking up an inordinate amount of their time for zero benefit. Presumably they are in denial and pretend that it is a valuable part of their business. They try to treat it like any other part without actually knowing how to deal with it.
It must be a complete mystety to them.

 

[shmmeee]

Please can you explain that

Like I say Ive heard it posited so not really but Ill have a crack. I suppose it goes something like you dump debt from other businesses into CCFC making CCFC look worse and the other business more viable. Or you can avoid tax on other business profits in the Sisu group by offsetting them against losses at CCFC.

I am not an accountant though and have no idea how viable that is. Hence me asking.

 

[Nick]

I think osb has disproved that in the past.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I meant that being in Northampton isn't desirable.

Ultimately I want what's best for our club. Not Wasps. So I'd rather they lost out and the other parties mentioned had the balls to understand that SISU won't be here forever rather than selling to another hedge fund which, as I mentioned, has added more shit on top of what we've already suffered.




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Didn't Joy say that ship had sailed?
We never would have owned the Ricoh, she didn't want to pay.
Anyone believing any different is living in cloud cuckoo land.
She does not care unless she gets it for fuck all she is not interested. She got the club for nothing spent nothing anyone who believes she has invested 60 million into this club is as deluded as TF.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Didn't Joy say that ship had sailed?
We never would have owned the Ricoh, she didn't want to pay.
Anyone believing any different is living in cloud cuckoo land.
She does not care unless she gets it for fuck all she is not interested. She got the club for nothing spent nothing anyone who believes she has invested 60 million into this club is as deluded as TF.

I didn't say that for a start but you're missing my point. Wasps buying the Ricoh has not helped our situation. Regardless of whether we would've bought it or not.

I can't say it again, getting bored but I know the point I made initially still stands.


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[Liquid Gold]

Does anybody on here have any experience in advertising or content production that would be useful is putting an ad in the FFT or something similar? I don't mind setting up the crowdfunding but I have no experience in actually producing an ad.

 

[clint van damme]

Does anybody on here have any experience in advertising or content production that would be useful is putting an ad in the FFT or something similar? I don't mind setting up the crowdfunding but I have no experience in actually producing an ad.

picture of joy and tim
Caption - look at this pair of useless c**t - don't give them your cash.

Job done.

 

[Warwickhunt]

If they sell the club for say 3 million the debt is crystallised and becomes a real loss In the eyes
of their shareholders, this is the reason often put forward for them not wanting to sell.
I get that.
But if they file for insolvency and "wind the club up" is the debt crystalised in the same way, does
The debt become a real loss to their shareholders in the same way, and at the same level.
I don't know the answer, if anyone does could they please enlighten me.

Looking at the accounts the tax man may force their hand