Nick
Administrator
Can't wait to get promoted to the XG Premier League.
So much panic, I think it will turn around.
We are sixth in the xg table
Football as a game doesn't lend itself particularly well to cold scientific statistics, unlike, say American Football and Cricket.I find stats quite interesting to an extent but when you're hovering just outside the drop zone and people are saying its ok because the xG has us higher that it becomes meaningless. You can't measure spinelessness or general inability to play a certain system (the one we are currently playing)
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Football as a game doesn't lend itself particularly well to cold scientific statistics, unlike, say American Football and Cricket.
Far too many variables to adequately measure any players or teams expected anything with any degree of accuracy.
There is far too much correlation equals causation on here as it is, with every mention of Simms or Wright being a bit shit, bringing a response of " Gyokeres was shit when he started ".
Can't wait to get promoted to the XG Premier League.
I’d generally agree with that, but we’re talking about measurement of a specific i.e. quality creation and concession of chances. It’s not an “everything’s fine” argument, it’s highlighting what the data is telling us is the issue. And given that correlates pretty well to what we see, I’d suggest it’s accurate. Better finishing and cut out the mistakes at the back and we should do alright (sounds simple, I know).
As a quick aside to all of this, people have said we don’t shoot enough but the stats show we have taken 71 shots in 4 games. Do we disregard this stat because people are seeing it differently? Or do we say that we are shooting a lot, but we need to see more ‘quality’ shots
Nobody outperforms or underperforms the xG forever, that's the benefit of it. You can lose a match and be unlucky. You can lose 3 matches and be unlucky, but eventually, those balance out given long enough.As for this stats debate. I doubt you can outperform your xg forever so the better xg we have the more likely we are to win games long term I imagine.
It's one of the more interesting stats imo
He's under-appreciated by our fans. I'm not sure you can rank players that way in any case in reality.The stats app I use Sofascore has Josh Eccles as the 17th best (!) Championship player this season, he’s a decent player but certainly not among the best in the league.
So, the question is how has he ended up there? Is he underappreciated? Do they put more weight on certain statistics?
Because we know we need a Hamer replacement, and for some reason that wasn't done last window.Thing is our recruitment does look poor and many on here have criticised the recruitment personnel. Why would it be any different in January?
I'd go as far as to say that he has been our best player so far this season. He just isn't Hamer but he is criticised for things that aren't his fault or responsibility. I am sure this will elicit laughing emojis but maybe anyone who disagrees should say who has been better.
But he knows how to pass the ball into the net on occasion.
Yeah fair enough he can find the target now and again, I don’t want to slate him too much but I just think he doesn’t really add anything special to our game, he’s just consistently fine (which I suppose has it’s place).But he knows how to pass the ball into the net on occasion.
Spoke to my older brother about this at the weekend. We've both been going since the 70s , in his case early 70s , myself late 70s. So we've both seen the highs and many lows .
Our fear was we've massively increased our fan base over recent seasons and many of those have only seen success , now this season we aren't in the mix at the top of the table how these fans would react
Worked for Ferguson and many others , David Moyes was going to be sacked in January and won the Europa League .
Funny old game football
You're arguing that Sakamoto who has only started a handful of matches has been better. You have made your feelings about Eccles quite clear at length and incessantly. But it seems Robins doesn't agree with you as he has played almost every match for over a year now. This isn't true of many players in that time. Just maybe he knows more than you do.Josh Eccles? Just to confirm, that’s who you’re on about? Our best player this year? I realise that it’s not good to single out certain players but to say he’s been our best player is a massive overstatement in my view. Eccles’ got good stamina and he’s decent at stopping the play but unfortunately for us he’s good at that in both directions. He can’t cross a ball in properly, he’s scared to try anything creative with the ball, he clearly can’t take corners and he lacks vision, he simply doesn’t add anything extra to our game. I think he’s fine but he’s just that, no more.
Eccles is definitely not our best player anyway, I’d give that to Sakamoto. For a guy who speaks little English in a country he’s never played in before to come into the team the way he’s done is remarkable tbh. He puts in the most effort almost every game, he’s the only one that can cross a ball in well and he’s got agility for days, the only player that ever looks exciting or threatening on that ball. Yes he’s not scored or assisted yet but he’s not had the minutes Eccles has had and he’s still building his confidence in the team.
Eccles is a solid bench player but that’s it in my eyes, I’d be surprised if any team in the top half of the table would ever want him, and I realise that’s a bit cruel but I’m just being honest.
Josh Eccles? Just to confirm, that’s who you’re on about? Our best player this year? I realise that it’s not good to single out certain players but to say he’s been our best player is a massive overstatement in my view. Eccles’ got good stamina and he’s decent at stopping the play but unfortunately for us he’s good at that in both directions. He can’t cross a ball in properly, he’s scared to try anything creative with the ball, he clearly can’t take corners and he lacks vision, he simply doesn’t add anything extra to our game. I think he’s fine but he’s just that, no more.
So who has been better then?I'm not saying he's been our best player, but to counter your point that he doesn't add anything going forwards...
He has played more passes into the final third than anyone in the squad (by a long way)
Most number of progressive passes in the squad
Second most passes into the penalty area
Second most key passes
Second most shot creating actions
(That's just offensively, his defensive numbers are also very good)
You're arguing that Sakamoto who has only started a handful of matches has been better. You have made your feelings about Eccles quite clear at length and incessantly. But it seems Robins doesn't agree with you as he has played almost every match for over a year now. This isn't true of many players in that time. Just maybe he knows more than you do.
Sakamoto has had his moments but has hardly contributed as yet. Have another go at identifying someone who has contributed more this season than Eccles.
I'm not saying he's been our best player, but to counter your point that he doesn't add anything going forwards...
He has played more passes into the final third than anyone in the squad (by a long way)
Most number of progressive passes in the squad
Second most passes into the penalty area
Second most key passes
Second most shot creating actions
(That's just offensively, his defensive numbers are also very good)
He's playing every week because he is playing better than Sakamoto, Ayari or anyone else in midfield. The stats back that up and so does the fact that Robins keeps picking him.Yeah fair enough some good stats he’s put up but watching the game it doesn’t feel like he’s generating the potential for assists or goals, a lot of those passes are sidewards or backwards, it doesn’t show how often he could have gone forwards to try and score. There’s been multiple times when I’ve watched him play a safe ball sidewards when there’s been a perfectly good option forwards.
One thing to also factor in is that he’s one of the few players in midfield that’s started (almost?) every game. If he’s in that midfield position every week then he’s bound to be adding passes to his tally. Sheaf was out for a good while, Ayari in and out of the squad, MVE out for a few weeks, front line and back line changes every week and Kelly’s been out for the last 4-5 games. So Eccles is the only constant in the team, my point is that this is not through being consistently good but because we’ve consistently had no other midfielder to play there.
Did you buy an xG premier package?Can't wait to get promoted to the XG Premier League.
He's playing every week because he is playing better than Sakamoto, Ayari or anyone else in midfield. The stats back that up and so does the fact that Robins keeps picking him.
You really have nothing more to say than I don't rate Eccles but you say it in so many words and so often. We have the message now but don't expect Robins to be convinced.Fair enough, my view is just that he’s playing consistently fine but is nothing amazing. I don’t hate the guy but I don’t think he’s a top half championship side footballer. The issue is we have multiple players that some weeks put in a great shift and then other weeks put in a dodgy shift. I look at Eccles and think he could offer so much more but rarely has the courage or maybe ability to do so, tbf it’s mainly the sidewards passing that frustrates me but maybe that could be a tactical setup issue I suppose.
And don't forget Alex Ferguson was one game away from getting the sack, then Mark Robins scored the winner to save Ferguson's job and the rest is history.
He's playing every week because he is playing better than Sakamoto, Ayari or anyone else in midfield. The stats back that up and so does the fact that Robins keeps picking him.
Agreed. But it seems amazing that some people put all the blame on him.If Eccles is our best player so far this season then that shows how woeful we’ve been so far
You really have nothing more to say than I don't rate Eccles but you say it in so many words and so often. We have the message now but don't expect Robins to be convinced.
You still haven't told me who has contributed more than Eccles this season. The Sakamoto suggestion was a joke surely? The guy has hardly played.
There’s a difference between our most entertaining player and our best player. Sakamoto is a fun player to watch going forward, but he’s played less than half the time and hasn’t turned any runs or crosses into actual goals or assists yet.
By that token why do we play any defenders or defensive midfielders?Once again, the reference to Robins has nothing to do with these posts, it’s not like he’s taking in anything anyone on this forum says. The standard response of “the manager doesn’t agree” is a load of nonsense when you’re having a debate on a forum.
Oh yeah and good one, trying to make a joke about my Sakamoto comment. That’s how lacklustre Eccles is, from watching almost every game this season, to me Sakamoto has contributed more per minute than Eccles has this season despite getting like half the game time. I genuinely cannot believe we’ve gone this far with this debate about fucking Josh EcclesWho are you seriously more pleased about seeing on the team sheet? Eccles or Sakamoto? Because I certainly don’t want to be living a 0-0 life for the rest of the season and that’s the sort of scoreline Eccles brings. Neither good nor bad, just consistently boring.
He has scored and also had a number of good shots and have a look at the stats earlier in this thread.Yeah fair enough but the difference is Saka’s actually trying to do something, Eccles and the likes are doing jack shit, just pass pass pass pass and then lose the ball. Very rarely does a pass from Eccles lead to anything. He gets a lot of passes and he tries hard, don’t get me wrong, but there’s not much from him that actually contributes to a goal.
(I say that now, I bet he scores this weekend
Just to refer back to our debate, I’m not putting the blame solely on him, I’m not blaming him for us being bad, I just don’t rate him as a player. He has to play atm as that’s all we have in that position (apart from maybe Lati) but I don’t blame him for us doing bad, there’s a number of factors why we’re so shit atm.Agreed. But it seems amazing that some people put all the blame on him.
I realise Saka and Eccles do completely different jobs but my personal opinion is if I had to have one I’d pick Saka over Eccles every time. That’s just me though, many others will disagree and that’s fine, that’s football and it’s all part of the game I suppose.By that token why do we play any defenders or defensive midfielders?
Absolute rubbishYeah fair enough but the difference is Saka’s actually trying to do something, Eccles and the likes are doing jack shit, just pass pass pass pass and then lose the ball. Very rarely does a pass from Eccles lead to anything. He gets a lot of passes and he tries hard, don’t get me wrong, but there’s not much from him that actually contributes to a goal.
(I say that now, I bet he scores this weekend
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