New cars (2 Viewers)

[Potbellypig]

When even the Guardian says Jaguar might've gone too far, it might be worth a thought.

From memory, North America is/was Jag's biggest market, maybe China. Not sure how this will play out there.

If you look at their obvious competitors, a lot of them look back to their heritage and prestige - they've spent a lot of time and effort to build exactly those brands.

As for potential purchasers dying off, there's a lot more rich middle aged and late middle aged people than rich young kids, and demographically likely always will be. Not a section of the market I'd discount, personally.

To clarify, I want nothing but success for Jaguar and all British car makers. It's in the blood; father, grandfather, uncles, cousins, and me all worked in the industry. I hope it pays off.

Hats off to Jaguar’s ‘inclusive’ new branding: now people of all backgrounds won’t buy its cars | Marina Hyde

In the aftermath of Trump’s victory, the ad already looks like a period piece. But aside from that – I mean, seriously? says Guardian columnist Marina Hyde

www.theguardian.com

China, by a long, long way.

 

---

[duffer]

China, by a long, long way.

Are you sure about that? I've had a good look and I can find different stories on different websites.

I can't find anything that breaks Jaguar sales out of JLR sales either.

Not trying to pick a row, just interested...

Jaguar Land Rover Sales By Country – North America, Europe, UK, And China | Fundamental Data And Statistics For Stocks

Jaguar Land Rover (JLR)'s vehicle wholesale in North America, Europe, U.K., and China. Discover JLR's car sales numbers and year-over-year growth rates in these regions and countries.

stockdividendscreener.com

2023 (Full Year) Global: Jaguar Land Rover Worldwide Sale by Model - Car Sales Statistics

In full-year 2023, Jaguar Land Rover car sales worldwide increased by 27% with the Defender and Range Rover the global top-selling models.

www.best-selling-cars.com

 

[Potbellypig]

Are you sure about that? I've had a good look and I can find different stories on different websites.

I can't find anything that breaks Jaguar sales out of JLR sales either.

Not trying to pick a row, just interested...

Jaguar Land Rover Sales By Country – North America, Europe, UK, And China | Fundamental Data And Statistics For Stocks

Jaguar Land Rover (JLR)'s vehicle wholesale in North America, Europe, U.K., and China. Discover JLR's car sales numbers and year-over-year growth rates in these regions and countries.

stockdividendscreener.com

2023 (Full Year) Global: Jaguar Land Rover Worldwide Sale by Model - Car Sales Statistics

In full-year 2023, Jaguar Land Rover car sales worldwide increased by 27% with the Defender and Range Rover the global top-selling models.

www.best-selling-cars.com

Yeah it's complete and utter bollocks. I've worked there for over 10 years and see the business reports quarterly, they look nothing like those links.

 

[Grendel]

I don’t think the 2030 has actually been adopted yet. I think it was an aspiration. It would be ridiculous to have a different date and not in keeping with Starmer’s desire for closer alignment with Europe.

It’s interesting that Porsche are looking at Biofuel development as electric projects are looking unviable.

Germany and France are lobbying for this as part of Eu targets

Vauxhall can’t meet Van targets and JLR are miles behind targets which grow again next year

 

[MalcSB]

China, by a long, long way.

Haven’t China reverse engineered jaGUars yet?

 

[Sick Boy]

When even the Guardian says Jaguar might've gone too far, it might be worth a thought.

From memory, North America is/was Jag's biggest market, maybe China. Not sure how this will play out there.

If you look at their obvious competitors, a lot of them look back to their heritage and prestige - they've spent a lot of time and effort to build exactly those brands.

As for potential purchasers dying off, there's a lot more rich middle aged and late middle aged people than rich young kids, and demographically likely always will be. Not a section of the market I'd discount, personally.

To clarify, I want nothing but success for Jaguar and all British car makers. It's in the blood; father, grandfather, uncles, cousins, and me all worked in the industry. I hope it pays off.

Hats off to Jaguar’s ‘inclusive’ new branding: now people of all backgrounds won’t buy its cars | Marina Hyde

In the aftermath of Trump’s victory, the ad already looks like a period piece. But aside from that – I mean, seriously? says Guardian columnist Marina Hyde

www.theguardian.com

The video of Farage saying he hopes/they deserve to go out of business says it all about him. No other politician talks the country down as much as him. Tosser.

 

[MalcSB]

It’s interesting that Porsche are looking at Biofuel development as electric projects are looking unviable.

Germany and France are lobbying for this as part of Eu targets

Vauxhall can’t meet Van targets and JLR are miles behind targets which grow again next year

Being forced down a one size fits all route is daft.

Just done the LR test to see which fuel would best suit my needs and a PHEV was the answer. A diesel MHEV was next best - which is what a have. Mercedes I’m afraid, not JLR

 

[nicksar]

Haven’t China reverse engineered jaGUars yet?

Probably but JLR do have a manufacturing facility in China to serve that market.

 

[MalcSB]

It’s interesting that Porsche are looking at Biofuel development as electric projects are looking unviable.

Germany and France are lobbying for this as part of Eu targets

Vauxhall can’t meet Van targets and JLR are miles behind targets which grow again next year

The Taycan is a beautiful car in my opinion, great to drive but unreliable and depreciates very heavily. The Macan EV doesn’t look that attractive and if engineered like the Taycan will also drive well but be unreliable. Not surprised they are looking at alternatives, but I guess a biofuelling net work would take many years to establish.

Brazil has a lot to answer for!

 

[RobinsSkyBlues]

Yeah agree.

The people that traditionally buy Jaguars are either just not buying them or are dying off.

They need to do something to address that. Whether this is too extreme who knows, but clearly something had to budge.

I love my Jags. But they are not the same anymore. I recently bought an old s type as it was the best available and nearest to what you expect from a Jag. Will last me a long time as has covered hardly any mileage. But even with this one it is only Jaguar by name. Most of the parts are stamped as Ford and the engine was developed by Ford and Peugeot Citroën.

 

[MalcSB]

I love my Jags. But they are not the same anymore. I recently bought an old s type as it was the best available and nearest to what you expect from a Jag. Will last me a long time as has covered hardly any mileage. But even with this one it is only Jaguar by name. Most of the parts are stamped as Ford and the engine was developed by Ford and Peugeot Citroën.

They certainly won‘t be the same going forward.

 

[lewys33]

I love my Jags. But they are not the same anymore. I recently bought an old s type as it was the best available and nearest to what you expect from a Jag. Will last me a long time as has covered hardly any mileage. But even with this one it is only Jaguar by name. Most of the parts are stamped as Ford and the engine was developed by Ford and Peugeot Citroën.

PSA were considered top tier for diesel for a long time so a lot of people did engines/engine components with them.

 

[lewys33]

Pick my new motor up on Monday which is always nice.

 

[duffer]

I love my Jags. But they are not the same anymore. I recently bought an old s type as it was the best available and nearest to what you expect from a Jag. Will last me a long time as has covered hardly any mileage. But even with this one it is only Jaguar by name. Most of the parts are stamped as Ford and the engine was developed by Ford and Peugeot Citroën.

I quite like the more recent S-types, though I know they spilt opinion.

I *really* like the original S-types, we had one of those when I was a kid, and they were going for peanuts in the mid to late 70s.

My personal opinion is that the last Jaguar that really captured the brand was the x300, as built at Browns Lane. Grace, space, and pace.

They're still around at a reasonable price, and if well looked after are a lovely drive. Each to his own, obviously...

 

[RobinsSkyBlues]

I quite like the more recent S-types, though I know they spilt opinion.

I *really* like the original S-types, we had one of those when I was a kid, and they were going for peanuts in the mid to late 70s.

My personal opinion is that the last Jaguar that really captured the brand was the x300, as built at Browns Lane. Grace, space, and pace.

They're still around at a reasonable price, and if well looked after are a lovely drive. Each to his own, obviously...

Just like many Jags I didn't like the S-Type when it first came out. But the shape grew on me over the years. Paid well over the normal price for one as less than 40k on the clock with a full Jaguar service history.

I did consider a few models but I was looking for a usable reliable one and it ticked every box. Excellent motorway cruiser. Should still be going strong when we start to have to go electric. We can do 1k plus in a day when we drive to Italy or Spain sharing the drive. Wouldn't even consider doing this in an electric car especially in winter.

 

[RobinsSkyBlues]

PSA were considered top tier for diesel for a long time so a lot of people did engines/engine components with them.

Yes. Cracking engine. But Ford/DSA isn't Jaguar at all. Just like all the parts being Ford. As I said to me the last Jaguar that feels like a Jaguar. But it's still a Ford in disguise.

 

[skybluegod]

First experience of driving an EV for an extended period this week away with work. Provided with an MG4 travelling from the North east to near Swindon.

The car itself is nice, it's smooth and drives well. Very nippy. I personally don't like all the driver assistance stuff. Lane assist, automatic braking, speed noises. With the automatic braking can only turn it off and not have all the other functions like cruise control or have it on which seems stupid.

Of course the big issue. Range. There and back it took two charges on each leg. Meaning a 40 minute stop with the fast chargers which are no cheaper than petrol/diesel. So journey extended by 1:20 minutes and costs the same.

Used normal charges during the week. Much cheaper but also so impractical, 6 hours of charging charged 65%. It's fine when you are overnight at home. But if you are away for a period it's a pain.

Plus with the new laws on diesel and petrols from 2030, the infrastructure simply cannot cope. As it is most fast chargers are taken on motorways during the day, that needs to improve massively

 

[lewys33]

First experience of driving an EV for an extended period this week away with work. Provided with an MG4 travelling from the North east to near Swindon.

The car itself is nice, it's smooth and drives well. Very nippy. I personally don't like all the driver assistance stuff. Lane assist, automatic braking, speed noises. With the automatic braking can only turn it off and not have all the other functions like cruise control or have it on which seems stupid.

Of course the big issue. Range. There and back it took two charges on each leg. Meaning a 40 minute stop with the fast chargers which are no cheaper than petrol/diesel. So journey extended by 1:20 minutes and costs the same.

Used normal charges during the week. Much cheaper but also so impractical, 6 hours of charging charged 65%. It's fine when you are overnight at home. But if you are away for a period it's a pain.

Plus with the new laws on diesel and petrols from 2030, the infrastructure simply cannot cope. As it is most fast chargers are taken on motorways during the day, that needs to improve massively

a PHEV suits the vast majority. Not only to suit long journeys, and short journeys on battery but to suit the people who don’t want to change over as well, they could just buy it and never charge it!

 

[JAM See]

a PHEV suits the vast majority. Not only to suit long journeys, and short journeys on battery but to suit the people who don’t want to change over as well, they could just buy it and never charge it!

Definitely going for a PHEV next (in about three years, currently on a '71 plate).
As I'm a bit risk averse, I'll probably go for a second hand Kia used approved. Initial depreciation gone but still with the full 7 year warranty.

 

[MalcSB]

a PHEV suits the vast majority. Not only to suit long journeys, and short journeys on battery but to suit the people who don’t want to change over as well, they could just buy it and never charge it!

My understanding is that having a PHEV and not charging it results in appalling fuel economy which presumably leads to higher carbon emissions,

“If you don't charge a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) regularly, it will be less economical to run than a petrol, diesel, or hybrid vehicle:

• Fuel economy
  The fuel economy figures for PHEVs are based on the battery being fully charged.
  
  
  
• Battery pack
  Without regular charging, you're paying extra to carry an expensive and heavy battery pack.
  

Here are some other things to consider about PHEVs:

• Charging while driving
  PHEVs can self-charge to some extent, but this is only nominal and will never completely replenish the battery.
  
  
  
• Charging time
  Charging a PHEV should take less than three hours.
  
  
  
• Battery performance
  To keep the battery performance in optimal condition, you can:
  
  • Keep the battery at 30%-80% charged.
    
    
    
  • Minimize the number of charges.
    
• Charging strategy
  If your daily commute or routine driving falls within the electric-only range, you can maximize your use of electric power and minimize gasoline consumption by charging your PHEV every day.
  

If you're not planning on charging your PHEV, a mild hybrid might be a better choice.”

 

[lewys33]

My understanding is that having a PHEV and not charging it results in appalling fuel economy which presumably leads to higher carbon emissions,

“If you don't charge a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) regularly, it will be less economical to run than a petrol, diesel, or hybrid vehicle:

• Fuel economy
  The fuel economy figures for PHEVs are based on the battery being fully charged.
  
  
  
• Battery pack
  Without regular charging, you're paying extra to carry an expensive and heavy battery pack.

Here are some other things to consider about PHEVs:

• Charging while driving
  PHEVs can self-charge to some extent, but this is only nominal and will never completely replenish the battery.
  
  
  
• Charging time
  Charging a PHEV should take less than three hours.
  
  
  
• Battery performance
  To keep the battery performance in optimal condition, you can:
  • Keep the battery at 30%-80% charged.
    
    
    
  • Minimize the number of charges.
• Charging strategy
  If your daily commute or routine driving falls within the electric-only range, you can maximize your use of electric power and minimize gasoline consumption by charging your PHEV every day.

If you're not planning on charging your PHEV, a mild hybrid might be a better choice.”

you are 100% right, PHEV could well be an extra 2-300kg. To be fair I assumed mild hybrid cars don’t fit in the allowance, I don’t know exactly.

 

[Grendel]

you are 100% right, PHEV could well be an extra 2-300kg. To be fair I assumed mild hybrid cars don’t fit in the allowance, I don’t know exactly.

No they are just the same BIK as any petrol or diesel cars

 

[PVA]

First experience of driving an EV for an extended period this week away with work. Provided with an MG4 travelling from the North east to near Swindon.

The car itself is nice, it's smooth and drives well. Very nippy. I personally don't like all the driver assistance stuff. Lane assist, automatic braking, speed noises. With the automatic braking can only turn it off and not have all the other functions like cruise control or have it on which seems stupid.

Of course the big issue. Range. There and back it took two charges on each leg. Meaning a 40 minute stop with the fast chargers which are no cheaper than petrol/diesel. So journey extended by 1:20 minutes and costs the same.

Used normal charges during the week. Much cheaper but also so impractical, 6 hours of charging charged 65%. It's fine when you are overnight at home. But if you are away for a period it's a pain.

Plus with the new laws on diesel and petrols from 2030, the infrastructure simply cannot cope. As it is most fast chargers are taken on motorways during the day, that needs to improve massively

Do you know if you had the long range or standard version? Judging by your experience I'm guessing it was the standard, which has a range of 218 miles.

There are plenty of cars out there with well over 300 miles, even 400+.

So if you were regularly making that journey then that car wouldn't be suitable, but there's plenty that would be more appropriate and require less charging.

 

[skybluegod]

Do you know if you had the long range or standard version? Judging by your experience I'm guessing it was the standard, which has a range of 218 miles.

There are plenty of cars out there with well over 300 miles, even 400+.

So if you were regularly making that journey then that car wouldn't be suitable, but there's plenty that would be more appropriate and require less charging.

Correct it was the the standard version. And yeah you are right it isn't suitable for the journey regularly (classic MOD contract which isn't suitable for what we need it for!)

There are plenty with advertised range of 300 or 400 but much like the standard MG they never really achieve this. Lad at work owns a polestar 2 and in anything but summer it never reaches the advertised range maybe getting 250ish (little more during the rest of year) which for many is definitely enough but for me when i drive 230 miles each way for every home game it still just isn't suitable for the outlay that goes with these cars at the moment. (I have never paid more than £5000 for a car and don't intend to for a long time!!)

 

[Grendel]

Interesting

JAGUAR UNVEILS TYPE 00. UNMISTAKABLE. UNEXPECTED. DRAMATIC. | Jaguar 2024 Media Newsroom

Introducing an unmistakable, unexpected and dramatic physical manifestation of Jaguar, as the brand continues its transformation.

media.jaguar.com

 

[Grendel]

My understanding is that having a PHEV and not charging it results in appalling fuel economy which presumably leads to higher carbon emissions,

“If you don't charge a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) regularly, it will be less economical to run than a petrol, diesel, or hybrid vehicle:

• Fuel economy
  The fuel economy figures for PHEVs are based on the battery being fully charged.
  
  
  
• Battery pack
  Without regular charging, you're paying extra to carry an expensive and heavy battery pack.

Here are some other things to consider about PHEVs:

• Charging while driving
  PHEVs can self-charge to some extent, but this is only nominal and will never completely replenish the battery.
  
  
  
• Charging time
  Charging a PHEV should take less than three hours.
  
  
  
• Battery performance
  To keep the battery performance in optimal condition, you can:
  • Keep the battery at 30%-80% charged.
    
    
    
  • Minimize the number of charges.
• Charging strategy
  If your daily commute or routine driving falls within the electric-only range, you can maximize your use of electric power and minimize gasoline consumption by charging your PHEV every day.

If you're not planning on charging your PHEV, a mild hybrid might be a better choice.”

To be fair I purchased a new M-B GLC 300 AMG this year. Its a PHEV and its pretty impressive. Fuel consumption is very good on just Diesel - it does well over 50MPG on the M Way.

The charge gives you 80 miles of Electric if you want it so local driving means if you use it you never need to fuel.

Only 5% BIK as well so an £80 grand motor incurs very little tax.

 

[MalcSB]

To be fair I purchased a new M-B GLC 300 AMG this year. Its a PHEV and its pretty impressive. Fuel consumption is very good on just Diesel - it does well over 50MPG on the M Way.

The charge gives you 80 miles of Electric if you want it so local driving means if you use it you never need to fuel.

Only 5% BIK as well so an £80 grand motor incurs very little tax.

I have a used MB C 300D which is a MHEV. Got over 62 mpg over 180 miles of Motorway and A roads this morning. Was originally interested in the C300E but the salesman did put me off a bit in relation to running costs if battery not charged. Well, that and the much smaller boot space.

Yours sounds pretty good and the BIK probably wins the debate.

 

[MalcSB]

Interesting

JAGUAR UNVEILS TYPE 00. UNMISTAKABLE. UNEXPECTED. DRAMATIC. | Jaguar 2024 Media Newsroom

Introducing an unmistakable, unexpected and dramatic physical manifestation of Jaguar, as the brand continues its transformation.

media.jaguar.com

Shite more like

I don’t get this “copy nothing”. My car has got 4 wheels as well.

 

[MalcSB]

Correct it was the the standard version. And yeah you are right it isn't suitable for the journey regularly (classic MOD contract which isn't suitable for what we need it for!)

There are plenty with advertised range of 300 or 400 but much like the standard MG they never really achieve this. Lad at work owns a polestar 2 and in anything but summer it never reaches the advertised range maybe getting 250ish (little more during the rest of year) which for many is definitely enough but for me when i drive 230 miles each way for every home game it still just isn't suitable for the outlay that goes with these cars at the moment. (I have never paid more than £5000 for a car and don't intend to for a long time!!)

You will be able to get a Taycan soon for that. Doubt the real life range is much better for you though, but they do look fabulous. Not terribly reliable though, apparently.

 

[Como]

 

[MalcSB]

Copy no one.

 

[Boicey]

I've had 2 EVs (ID3, Niro EV) and will be getting a Kia EV3 next year.
If you can charge at home and don't do silly business miles they are great to own.
So much nonsense spoken about EVs.

 

[MalcSB]

I've had 2 EVs (ID3, Niro EV) and will be getting a Kia EV3 next year.
If you can charge at home and don't do silly business miles they are great to own.
So much nonsense spoken about EVs.

So you have given two caveats which are the basis for what you would consider nonsense talked about EVs.

So if you can’t charge at home and do silly business miles that are crap?

 

[PVA]

Just over a week with my first ev.

I can't charge at home (not yet anyway - my charger is being installed in a week or so!) and do a lot of miles and it's been great so far

 

[MalcSB]

Just over a week with my first ev.

I can't charge at home (not yet anyway - my charger is being installed in a week or so!) and do a lot of miles and it's been great so far

Keep us updated.