Well as I said, it’s very easy to quantify how many more points we would have without Collins’ mistakes - it’s a lot harder to quantify the direct impact of say, Latibeaudiere and Dasilva starting ~80 games. But there’s zero doubt there was an impact, and I’m willing to bet over the course of the season it was a big one.All other things being equal those clangers cost 4 points, Kitching booting it into his own goal cost another one and that's already half the final gap to the playoffs. I can see Clint's point even if I don't entirely agree.
Sorry, if you were Doug you'd be telling the management "just sign quality"? Groundbreaking stuffAh right, fair enough, like point taken but going forward I’m not mad keen on these stats about the top keepers having to either from lower leagues or be over £5 mil. Of course that’s true for this season but is that always going to be the case going forward? I somehow doubt it?
I think we just need to sign quality, if it costs £1.5 mil that’s fine, if it’s costs £4.2 mil that’s fine. The priority is to get someone that’s just downright good and doesn’t make errors. How we go about finding that player I’ve no idea but that’s personally what I’d be telling the management to be doing if I was Doug
We had this with Wilson too when he came back into the team. A clean sheet or two as I recall but people still complained that he hadn't made any saves. Then when he did concede people were moaning that he 'never saves anything' despite not having a prayer with any of them.Which are you blaming on Collins? This is hysteria imo, neither of the goals were his fault.
Not sure when he said it but it's a well known quote and it's quoted in this article.I haven’t seen the Ferguson quote - when/where did he say it?
Well as I said, it’s very easy to quantify how many more points we would have without Collins’ mistakes - it’s a lot harder to quantify the direct impact of say, Latibeaudiere and Dasilva starting ~80 games. But there’s zero doubt there was an impact, and I’m willing to bet over the course of the season it was a big one.
Why dont you tell everyone then?
A keeper surplus to requirements in a Prem squad? Someone from a European League or elsewhere?This was a reply to him saying we should spend £1-2m on a keeper and not one from league one. Which would rule out most of the top keepers in this league.
I agree, but that's my point, given our budget it's likely we'll either be signing an inexperienced keeper or someone from a lower profile league, which comes with its own risks. It's not as simple as just going out and paying 1-2m for a ready made championship keeper.A keeper surplus to requirements in a Prem squad? Someone from a European League or elsewhere?
There are so many possibilities in the world of football, and I don't see why it should be impossible to find what we need within the budget we have.
If we do invest a sizeable sum in a keeper it will have to come at the cost of strengthening elsewhere - I don’t think we have a big war chest this summer, we will have to pick and choose.That's true, but those of us banging on about the keeper aren't saying get a replacement in at the cost of strengthening elsewhere, we're just saying it's a priority.
If we do invest a sizeable sum in a keeper it will have to come at the cost of strengthening elsewhere - I don’t think we have a big war chest this summer, we will have to pick and choose.
Sorry, if you were Doug you'd be telling the management "just sign quality"? Groundbreaking stuff
Also it's not fine if it costs £4.2m, that's far too much for us to spend on a keeper.
Yeah it definitely won’t be easy to find a decent keeper but as Clint was saying there’s loads of great players out there and I’m sure our recruitment could find someone of better quality than Collins if King/Robins gives the go ahead.It's not as though they're deliberately trying to sign keepers who throw the ball into their own goal, but at the same time keepers who are good at commanding their box, shot stopping, and distributing the ball don't tend to be found at this level and certainly not cheap.
Who recruited Collins again?Yeah it definitely won’t be easy to find a decent keeper but as Clint was saying there’s loads of great players out there and I’m sure our recruitment could find someone of better quality than Collins if King/Robins gives the go ahead.
Ex chelskiWho recruited Collins again?
It really isn’t as desperate as that. We won a golden glove award with Ben Wilson in goal.I think the consensus is that we won't invest heavily in a keeper, but if we don't get it right, or dont get one of our current keepers back on track, then we'll struggle to sustain a play off push.
It really isn’t as desperate as that. We won a golden glove award with Ben Wilson in goal.
The GK errors are obvious blunders you can point the finger at, but as a team, we’ve been conceding far too many chances. This is why some statistics have Collins as one of the leading GKs in shot saved % and match rating. Even during our purple patch between Dec-Jan, our xG for and against was identical which was not reflected in the amount of CS we had at the time.
Personally, I’m far more concerned with the amount of chances we give away as a team and MR has alluded to this more than individual mistakes.
If you've watched Collins recently and not been concerned then I dont know what to say.
He's been dreadful.
As for individual errors, it is possible to be concerned about them and the string of howlers Collins has been responsible for.
Get Burroughs to give us a scouting report.I don’t know a lot about him, but noticed he made league one team of the season.
I think it'd be better. At least his hands would be sticky!I feel that you're mis-spelling something here. Would certainly account for his weak grip of the ball anyway.
As Alex Ferguson said, a good keeper is worth 15 points a season, you're massively underpaying the importance of the role.
The outfield players are going to have to do something incredible if a keeper is gifting the opposition a goal every game.
Exactly I can't believe people are so undervaluing the importance of the goalkeeper spot. The best 2 teams over the past few years Man City and Liverpool have both got world class keepers. When Man Utd were winning multiple trophies they had the best goalie in the World, when Arsenal were known as the Invincibles they had Seaman, these keepers earnt their teams vital points that got them over the line.Not sure when he said it but it's a well known quote and it's quoted in this article.
Can you name every goalkeeper to play for Man Utd in the Premier League?
Twenty-four different goalkeepers have represented Manchester United in the Premier League – but how many can you name? We're sure you'll get the most famous names, including the man pictured above, who has made over a hundred more Premier League appearances for the Red Devils than any other keeper.www.planetfootball.com
John Terry said Chech was worth 12 - 15 points a season to their Chelsea side and Clough said a good keeper was worth 12 points a season and that's when it was 2 points per win.
I appreciate it's a different era now but I think that theory still stands.
Frankly it's staggering that anyone who has watched us regularly this season could argue that we don't need to sign a new goalkeeper. We lost so many points through truly awful keeping and it is glaringly our problem position. I think we would probably have been in the play offs if it hadn't been for Collins. Genuinely can't think of a worse keeper I have seen for us and it must have been so frustrating for the rest of the team.Exactly I can't believe people are so undervaluing the importance of the goalkeeper spot. The best 2 teams over the past few years Man City and Liverpool have both got world class keepers. When Man Utd were winning multiple trophies they had the best goalie in the World, when Arsenal were known as the Invincibles they had Seaman, these keepers earnt their teams vital points that got them over the line.
Every long-standing Coventry fan will surely never forget, how Oggy's brilliant consistency over many years, was responsible for so many points gained that helped keep us in the topflight by winning many relegation dogfights.
Frankly it's staggering that anyone who has watched us regularly this season could argue that we don't need to sign a new goalkeeper. We lost so many points through truly awful keeping and it is glaringly our problem position. I think we would probably have been in the play offs if it hadn't been for Collins. Genuinely can't think of a worse keeper I have seen for us and it must have been so frustrating for the rest of the team.
A poor keeper results in a less confident defence on front of them.Frankly it's staggering that anyone who has watched us regularly this season could argue that we don't need to sign a new goalkeeper. We lost so many points through truly awful keeping and it is glaringly our problem position. I think we would probably have been in the play offs if it hadn't been for Collins. Genuinely can't think of a worse keeper I have seen for us and it must have been so frustrating for the rest of the team.
Stats are one thing but using our eyes to see the variety of embarassing goals we concede is another.Why do the stats indicate otherwise?
Stats are one thing but using our eyes to see the variety of embarassing goals we concede is another.
I agree, but we can't have a keeper that constantly gives away absolute gifts.Which applies to more than just Collins. Even past the individual mistakes we make as a team, we concede far too many shots at goal and in dangerous areas. The defensive structure is higher priority and there will be both tactical and coaching changes to be made to improve that area.
MR in his post-match conference has been focused more on this, against Ipswich we conceded 9 shots in the box.
If we can get a better GK in, let’s do it. It won’t make much of a difference overall if they’re having to make several shots a game.
Frankly it's staggering that anyone who has watched us regularly this season could argue that we don't need to sign a new goalkeeper. We lost so many points through truly awful keeping and it is glaringly our problem position. I think we would probably have been in the play offs if it hadn't been for Collins. Genuinely can't think of a worse keeper I have seen for us and it must have been so frustrating for the rest of the team.
I agree, but we can't have a keeper that constantly gives away absolute gifts.
I accept that sometimes a shot can sneak under a keeper. Everyone makes mistakes. But when the keeper is making bad passes and letting the ball under go him and dropping the ball on crosses and pulling out of challenges and punching the ball into his own net, then you have a problem .
I would be happy to give him time, but he also doesn't seem to have any body bulk to him and lacks physicality.
But you’re discounting all the goals he’s stopped. Which is where the stats come in handy. Human brains remember the farcical and glaring more than not, we all remember his fuck ups but then forget the two goal saving saves he makes the same game and say he’s cost us the game. Over a season he’s saved more goals than he’s given away, unlike Wilson, so is it that vital to replace him? Which positions if any would you out ahead of him in the shopping list?
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