You mean it's much better we stay at Sixfields???
Because we dont want these crooks/con artists to get the Ricoh!!!!!
So now add £36 million into the mix
Right so Grendal's 8-10 million is way off the mark.
36 million will do for me. If we go for a middle figure in stadium cost 25 million.
60 million to sell the lot to walk away without any loses.
At the moment we pay 1 million a year interest on the debt. This could feasibly double to 2 million.
Is it correct we pay over a million on management fees.
So we need to clear 3 million a year profit before we can consider paying staff.
Awesome
No. No one on here knows the tactics that are being deployed and what the end strategy is. No one knows what debt liability is considered by them and no one knows what their end strategy is. If someone offered them £15 million to leave would they take this? Who knows.
There is not one person on this forum that knows their strategy and knows what their desired outcome is. We do know seppella isn't stupid so all this discussion about accounts, crude calculations, pies is stupid. There is a strategy somewhere.
Once the review is complete I'm sure the strategy will show its hand.
So where the has £70,000,000 come from OSB?
Even if the accounts are filed tomorrow, won't it be another couple of weeks before we can access them?
never really existed in the years from 2008 till now Robbo ....... was just the way the deal was done. SISU bought in by discounting the amounts owed to creditors and at a net £3m or so in the end, but left the full amount of debt outstanding on the CCFC and CCFCH books. That way they could sell the CCFCH group on and demand repayment of the amounts it owed. That way get a substantial return on original investment as well as selling on the company. Well that was the plan ...... which didn't go too well it would seem
The real debt that is owed is the ARVO loans and the loans from the original 5 private equity funds
What's your opinion on the final endgame here?
My take in this is;
Clearly there will never be a new ground
They may stay in Northampton for another season
Then its acquire the stadium by distress means or liquidate the lot.
I cannot ever see them returning as tenants to ACL. Can you?
What's your opinion on the final endgame here?
My take in this is;
Clearly there will never be a new ground
They may stay in Northampton for another season
Then its acquire the stadium by distress means or liquidate the lot.
I cannot ever see them returning as tenants to ACL. Can you?
I know you didn't ask me but hell I'll answer anyway.What's your opinion on the final endgame here?
My take in this is;
Clearly there will never be a new ground
They may stay in Northampton for another season
Then its acquire the stadium by distress means or liquidate the lot.
I cannot ever see them returning as tenants to ACL. Can you?
Is it correct we pay over a million on management fees.
Can you see how they can recoup 60 million in the long run Godiva?
Do you know if they have ever been asked this?
What's your opinion on the final endgame here?
My take in this is;
Clearly there will never be a new ground
They may stay in Northampton for another season
Then its acquire the stadium by distress means or liquidate the lot.
I cannot ever see them returning as tenants to ACL. Can you?
Sadly I think you could well be right. After all that has been said under the current owners then I cant see them renting either. I think they have hung everything on the JR and the possible law cases that may well follow that. In my own mind I don't see them going past the end of next season, but that's just my gut feeling on it
I do not see how building a downsized stadium gets them the returns they need for their investors, there is no capital growth of any significance. I come back to the two things that are important to Seppala ...... her family - nothing to do with CCFC ...... and her investors for whom she must maximise returns. The end game remains the Ricoh "purchased" by a legal settlement I think and additional compensation/damages if they can. If not then I really do worry as to whether CCFC has a future past 2015
What's your opinion on the final endgame here?
My take in this is;
Clearly there will never be a new ground
They may stay in Northampton for another season
Then its acquire the stadium by distress means or liquidate the lot.
I cannot ever see them returning as tenants to ACL. Can you?
Sadly I think you could well be right. After all that has been said under the current owners then I cant see them renting either. I think they have hung everything on the JR and the possible law cases that may well follow that. In my own mind I don't see them going past the end of next season, but that's just my gut feeling on it
I do not see how building a downsized stadium gets them the returns they need for their investors, there is no capital growth of any significance. I come back to the two things that are important to Seppala ...... her family - nothing to do with CCFC ...... and her investors for whom she must maximise returns. The end game remains the Ricoh "purchased" by a legal settlement I think and additional compensation/damages if they can. If not then I really do worry as to whether CCFC has a future past 2015
Don't get me started on management fee's!
Lets start with what is owed now and go with OSB's figure of £36m. Of that a buyer will only pay full price for the £8m to ARVO. If the buyer leaves the loan unchanged he does not pay anything at first, he simply keep servicing the loan.
Then there's the £28m to sisu's funds. As that debt is already written DOWN (not off) it means the price can be negotiated. I have no idea what price will be acceptable, but am pretty sure a buyer will have to pay cash.
Then there's the new stadium (in this scenario) - it will probably sit in a holding company under SBS&L. A buyer will take over any loans and obligations. No cash needed, but future service of any debts.
Finally there's the shares in SBS&L (and Otium). The price (paid in cash) will be determined by the profitability of the club/stadium as well as future outlook.
So a buyer will have to pay cash for the loans to sisu's funds (to be negotiated) plus the shares in SBS&L (and Otium), the rest is taking over servicing the ARVO and stadium loans.
Simplistic and without all the small prints, I know. The point is the price will be a fraction of the overall debts.
How I see itI agree with OSB here - sisu seem to pin their hopes on winning the JR, but I disagree they will liquidate if they fail.
ARVO is the unknown entity here - they are paid interests on their loans and won't let that go for nothing.
In my opinion should they lose the JR the most likely scenario is that sisu hand over the keys to ARVO and write OFF (not down) the loans to the funds.
Don't get me started on management fee's!
Lets start with what is owed now and go with OSB's figure of £36m. Of that a buyer will only pay full price for the £8m to ARVO. If the buyer leaves the loan unchanged he does not pay anything at first, he simply keep servicing the loan.
Then there's the £28m to sisu's funds. As that debt is already written DOWN (not off) it means the price can be negotiated. I have no idea what price will be acceptable, but am pretty sure a buyer will have to pay cash.
Then there's the new stadium (in this scenario) - it will probably sit in a holding company under SBS&L. A buyer will take over any loans and obligations. No cash needed, but future service of any debts.
Finally there's the shares in SBS&L (and Otium). The price (paid in cash) will be determined by the profitability of the club/stadium as well as future outlook.
So a buyer will have to pay cash for the loans to sisu's funds (to be negotiated) plus the shares in SBS&L (and Otium), the rest is taking over servicing the ARVO and stadium loans.
Simplistic and without all the small prints, I know. The point is the price will be a fraction of the overall debts.
However apart from paying out 8 million they will agreeing to take responsibility for 52 million pounds worth of debt ( or whatever negotiated figure) unless they are a crazy Cov fan or a billionaire. That will not happen.
Hence the stadium will not happen.
Why has SISU not been challenged over this.
I agree with OSB here - sisu seem to pin their hopes on winning the JR, but I disagree they will liquidate if they fail.
ARVO is the unknown entity here - they are paid interests on their loans and won't let that go for nothing.
In my opinion should they lose the JR the most likely scenario is that sisu hand over the keys to ARVO and write OFF (not down) the loans to the funds.
I agree with OSB here - sisu seem to pin their hopes on winning the JR, but I disagree they will liquidate if they fail.
ARVO is the unknown entity here - they are paid interests on their loans and won't let that go for nothing.
In my opinion should they lose the JR the most likely scenario is that sisu hand over the keys to ARVO and write OFF (not down) the loans to the funds.
Could that be because ARVO have a charge over everything sky blue and could hold that as a ransom demand Godiva knowing fans and others would be desperate to save the club............. didn't I read somewhere that Seppala was involved in ARVO could be wrong on that. The financial power in the SBS&L group is no longer the SISU investors they have been parked it is much more now about protecting ARVO's interests.
Generally saying the same thing I think aren't we ? ....... that makes a change :laugh:
OSB seems to agree with me don a rent deal is a no go what do you think?
Could that be because ARVO have a charge over everything sky blue and could hold that as a ransom demand Godiva knowing fans and others would be desperate to save the club............. didn't I read somewhere that Seppala was involved in ARVO could be wrong on that. The financial power in the SBS&L group is no longer the SISU investors they have been parked it is much more now about protecting ARVO's interests.
Generally saying the same thing I think aren't we ? ....... that makes a change :laugh:
Everyone seems to agree a rent deal is no go.
However I can't see someone writing off 36 million.
If they could agree a 10 year rent deal on their terms. Then turn the club into a break even / profit making business.
You do that surely you could sell that package for 10-15 million.
If JS writes of 36 million of investors money I would suggest that would be the end of SISU as no investors would invest in the future
Is a rent deal really a no go? Post JR of course. They crawled back to the Higgs Centre when they had to.
Yes - the club needs the revenue from ACL to be profitable and competitive going forward.
I don't really know if JS is involved in ARVO, could be. I won't be surprised if she comes out richer no matter what happens.
My concern with ARVO taking over the club is that it could lead to the club return to the Ricoh as tenants. Even if the rent is lowered to £400k/yr including match day costs it actually means the last two years have been for nothing. The club and ACL need to be merged under one owner.
Yes - the club needs the revenue from ACL to be profitable and competitive going forward.
Godiva, you clearly know more of these matters than I do. Why could a deal not be done? Surely if the rent is low enough the F&B'S become less important?
Sisu and their history of dealing with companies suggests a deal will never be done.
Sisu and their history of dealing with companies suggests a deal will never be done.
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