"OK I'll Ask the Question" (1 Viewer)

[warwickcccfc]

The way I see it Tankie, is that we're £1.3m in debt. The £60m (which is £45m in some outlets...maybe a but of sensationalism in some parts?) is reportedly what has been put in over the past 5 years. Player sales/ticket sales/merchandise isn't enough to keep a club running without additional investment. Whether this is classified as debt or investment by owners is up to interpretation.

Previous statements that have said we're debt free would insinuate that SISU had written the money invested, off. I could be totally wrong but I suspect that the reporting by the local media of this as debt rather than investment is intended to create more animosity towards CCFC/SISU.

It's not as if we hear headlines such as 'CCFC owe HMRC £30m' or 'CCFC still to pay 2 years worth of transfer fees'. The only 'we owe' statement that's in the public domain is the £1.3 to ACL. That is what our debt actually stands at, as I said, unless SISU will want to recoup their previous inputs.

WM

WM

Has anyone considered that this figure includes the debts SISU acquired in 2007?

They repackaged the debt, paid none of it off, and here we have the result, plus added debt from 2007-2013.

Thanks SISU. :jerkit:

 

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[Mr T - Sukka!]

The problem is that nobody out here really knows so everything we pontificate on is mere supposition based on half-truths, innuendo and the 'reading between the lines' of various statements.
What we do know is that sooner or later the accounts will have to be published and then the truth will be out. Better to wait until then rather than drive ourselves potty trying to make sense of a nonsensical situation. In the meantime lets concentrate on the football and look for six points over the holiday. (See...I live in cloud cuckoo land as well.)

Not really, we have been told by Tim Fisher that debts owed are to SISU. Some to ACL which we know to be rent. But from what he said at the fans fourm money owed to SISU, is accounted for.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Has anyone considered that this figure includes the debts SISU acquired in 2007?

They repackaged the debt, paid none of it off, and here we have the result, plus added debt from 2007-2013.

Thanks SISU. :jerkit:

You might be right...I was only giving my opinion.

But debt to who? If it's not to SISU, then who?? HMRC haven't been knocking on our door....the FL hasn't been chasing money owed to other clubs...the eleccy hasn't been turned off...Compass hasn't stopped serving grub...local businesses aren't making any public noises about monies owed.

It's all very well saying ' The repackaged debt etc and call them wankers' but who do we owe the debt to other than SISU themselves?

Genuine question asked in the hope of a genuine answer....

WM

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

It may not have been a lie, but a part of a plan they have not yet executed.

To me that plan could be:
Reduce the rent cost, obtain Higgs shares at ACL, convert debts to equity, release shares to fans, restart from scratch.

As long as they haven't been able to agree rent terms with ACL that plan would be on hold.

So, there may be a plausible explanation to why it was said.

There is something quite impressive in your dogged determination to defend the indefensible.

 

[paulcalf]

The £60 M of debt is not quite as it seems
It will include the debt the Club had when SISU took over. Other posters have quite rightly pointed out that this wasn't actually paid by SISU.
£1.3 M is owed to ACL, i think the majority of the rest of the 'debt' is ultimately owed to SISU Mananged funds. I posted the following in another thread. It's a bit long but details who owns the 'Club' and my fears on what will probably happen:


It is still unclear where the golden share that allows the team to play currently sits. This is crucial as it could affect the sale of the 'Club'.

CCFC Ltd are in admin. In past accounts: The Company is principally involved in the playing activities of a Football Club. The parent undertaking of the company is Coventry City Football Club (Holdings) Ltd. Sky Blue Sport & Leisure Ltd is the ultimate parent undertaking.

City Football Club (Holdings) Ltd: In past accounts: The Company operates as a holding company and undertakes some of the commercial activities of Managing Coventry City Football Club. The immediate parent company is Otium Entertainment Group Ltd. Sky Blue Sport & Leisure Ltd is the ultimate parent undertaking.

Sky Blue Sport & Leisure Ltd: The group is principally engaged in the operation of various sports related businesses including a football club. The company is engaged as a holding company. The majority shareholding of this company is held by Investment Funds under the Management of SISU Capital Limited. The group also received loans from ARVO Master Fund Limited, a company with an interest in shares of group companies.

SISU Capital Limited: Principal activity is Fund Management Services. Key driver of group's financial performance is its assets under management. Directors listed as Joy Seppala & Dermot Coleman. Joy holds more of the shares.

Past claims by the Club that CCFC Ltd was just a non trading property company are rubbish. The Club claim (Holdings) own the Golden share which allows the to play in the league. It wouldn't surprise me if they have done an illegal transfer of the share to (Holdings) this may mean the League punish us with more points, but it also may mean that SISU retain ownership of the club and screw us over even more.

If the golden share is with (Holdings) then the administrator for CCFC Ltd can't sell the Club. So if CFFC has no assets and doesn't own the golden share then their isn't much cash for the creditors. SISU may well have been clever enough to screw ACL out of £1.3Million and still retain ownership of the club. Much of the £60m owed by CCFC Ltd is to Funds managed by SISU, which means the funds are the major creditors. I really hope not but i wouldn't be surprised if this ends up that SISU still control the Club, they could decide to keep us or sell us to whoever they like, it may also mean the team gets another points deduction for 3rd party ownership/dodgy finances. I bloody hope this doesn't happen, but i think SISU know what they are doing when it comes to this sort of thing.

This information is based on my research & thoughts, im not a legal expert and do not claim this is all 100% correct, in fact i hope my suspicions are wrong!

I look forward to hearing other fans thoughts and getting a proper answer from the League about who actually owns the Golden Share!

 

[Sub]

it has already been stated that ccfc LTD has the golden share by the FL and the administrator hasnt it ?

 

[SkyBlueCharlie]

it has already been stated that ccfc LTD has the golden share by the FL and the administrator hasnt it ?

Yes it has

 

[psgm1]

The only debtors are other SISU companies and ACL. So whilst there may be several companies owed, most of those are pretty much SISU in all but name (Arvo & CCFC HOLDING).

I still fail to see how you can be in debt if you owe it to yourself! It won't surprise me if it turns out that sisu have simply been using the multiple companies as a tax dodge as companies can write off profits with losses from elsewhere.

Whether this has happened and whether SiSU will be allowed to get away with it, but just consider this.

If the club has lost £60 million in 5 years (just for sake of argument assume correct), then rumming of the club has cost that PLUS all the season tickets (say average 6k @ £400 each ) Approx £12 million PLUS ransons sports company (approx £6 million) plus the extra tickets over 5 years Plus sponsorships and so on and so forth.

So ultimately it has cost around £100 million to run trhe club over 5 years (around £20 million / year)

IT JUST CANNOT BE!!!!!

 

[smouch1975]

I think this will end with SISU still in charge and CCFC through a string of parent companies still owing £60 million to ARVO.

Any company set up in the Cayman isles can be considered as for nepharious reasons.

Any buyer would need to pay at least £30 million to satisfy this debt

 

[rupert_bear]

I think this will end with SISU still in charge and CCFC through a string of parent companies still owing £60 million to ARVO.

Any company set up in the Cayman isles can be considered as for nepharious reasons.

Any buyer would need to pay at least £30 million to satisfy this debt

Maybe but not nescasarily 30million cash, some sort of deal giving sisu a stake as an investor could happen with payments linked to where we are and what we achieve, i think this could be what sisu are after and gives them a return although long term on their investment

 

[Tank Top]

Blimey!!
what a nightmare Scenario, the thought of Sisu buying us back from the Administrator, under the name of a newly formed Sisu Subsiduary, thus putting us back to where we came in. I find it unlikely, that any potential new owner will want to pick up a£30 million dept just for the name of a club with no assets except for the team.
There is a possibility that ACL might find any potential new owner more compliant and offer a really good deal on the price of the Stadium, I'm sure that deep down ACL are Aching to put this sorry saga to bed, and I applaud them for not caving in to the Malicious, untrustworthy, bullying, Sisu.
I feel that there are still a few twists and turns left in this sad tale, "The Dragon aint slain yet"

 

[paulcalf]

ACL have stated that CCFC Ltd have the Golden Share, they quote a letter received from the FL states this. The administrator says (Holdings) believe they won the Share and that the FL believes it to be with CCFC Ltd. I have directly written to the FL asking them to confirm who owns the share and the haven't replied. I think the share will have been moved recently and that is why no one is giving a 100% guarantee where the share is. Regardless I'm sure SISU will try to find a way of hanging onto control of the club.

it has already been stated that ccfc LTD has the golden share by the FL and the administrator hasnt it ?