Only one man to blame for this- Thorn (3 Viewers)

Pigeon · Sep 16, 2012

We've had 12+ years of contibuting mediocracy and utter shit that has led us to this point in which we are at right now, nearly bottom of League 1. It's rediculous to blame all this on Andy Thorn, the man who took the reins of this club when no one else, rightly so, would touch the job with a 10 foot pole with the uncertainty over the clubs future. He should have never been in charge and should have been sacked at the end of the season rather than a couple of games in - that unprofesional act alone surely proves that there are many other factors that have left us in deep shit.

BurbageSkyBlues · Sep 16, 2012

We get what we deserve, I'm afraid.

The atmosphere from the fans has been vile, starting from that final season in the premiership. The hate and spite that eminated from our 'fans' towards Strachan , and many players, was not helpful. This trait has continued, through almost every manager's tenure, since then. This thread just highlights that mentality - how do we expect the players and managers to perform as a team, when the fans don't act as one?

Perhaps we should look in the mirror, before blaming everyone else?

Cue abuse.......

mattylad · Sep 16, 2012

RichieGunns said:
No Thorn is gone.

These players are good there is just something wrong in that dressing room that Thorn/Shaw/Carsley etc don't seem to be able to stamp out.

Yes he wasn't good for this club but he tried. He failed yes, but he tried and he was kicked out without a by your leave, just like so many others e.g. Black, Neillson etc.

As far as im concerned this is you venting your anger by going for the obvious option!

Thorn was part of the problem but not the main problem and does not deserve to have all of this lumped on him!

Richardson, Strachen, McGinty, Ken Deluded, Reid, Dowie, SISU, Ranson...i could go on!

All of these people and more have contributed to this clubs current situation! Thorn was a symptom of a much larger desease!

So don't go piling it all on him and to be honest, i think we've all had enough of hearing his name.

So leave it out will you!

I keep saying what's has gone wrong but people don't want to believe it "the players did not want thorn to go neither did shaw or carsley, it was a sisu set up bcos thorn stood up for the players in the contract wrangle so 1st chance this season they booted him and the players have played with there heads up their arses ever since"

Otis · Sep 16, 2012

mattylad said:
I keep saying what's has gone wrong but people don't want to believe it "the players did not want thorn to go neither did shaw or carsley, it was a sisu set up bcos thorn stood up for the players in the contract wrangle so 1st chance this season they hooked him and the players have played with there heads up their arses ever since"

But the players probably wanted Thorn to stay because it was all pally-pally and like a love-in. Too much a 'mates' atmosphere.

Thorn had to go. Seems clearly apparent. Lack of pace, width, throwing leads away, lacked of tactical nous.

Lord_Nampil · Sep 16, 2012

Is there any one to blame??? Thorn did his best which wasn't good enough, fisher and Waggott did the right thing but did it at the wrong time (should have gone at the end of the season)!! Shaw has not tryed to stop his authority on the team as a result the players haven't responded and we have lost 3 games in a row!

So I'd say not one person is to blame, we just need that management figure in ASAP untill then I don't think we can read too much into the start of the season!

Black6Osprey · Sep 16, 2012

mattylad said:
I keep saying what's has gone wrong but people don't want to believe it "the players did not want thorn to go neither did shaw or carsley, it was a sisu set up bcos thorn stood up for the players in the contract wrangle so 1st chance this season they booted him and the players have played with there heads up their arses ever since"

Is it so hard to believe the players are just not up to it? Why do we keep searching for another reason. We seem to have more conspiracies than the X files. The players were playing shit before Thorn went. When half the team had their head in their hands at the end of the Stevenage game I don't expect they were all thinking, poor old Thorny. Fans seem to come out with more shit than SISU. All the crap about bonuses. They are amongst the highest paid players in the league and if one or two of the players who were here last season are unhappy then its only one or two not the whole team. We need to wake up and realise the loan market is our only chance to improve. It makes you realise what a couple of clowns both Thorn and Waggot are that they put together a team that is so slow, lacks width, can't communicate and with no leaders. A few weeks later and Waggot says its so apparent and is whats clearly needed. The pair obviously didn't do their homework when putting this group together.

dantheman · Sep 16, 2012

There's no one man to blame that would be too easy.It's a culmination of factors over the last ten years.

It needs a good shake up from top to bottom!

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 16, 2012

CCFC said:
This is just speculation

You can have a good relationship with the players and have proper training sessions from the coaches an players at the same time

Anyway you have ROD, Deegan, Mcpake and at times Gael to suggest Thorn wasn't best chums and mates with all the players

And those players have left the club whilst the chums remain. If a manager is more best mates with his players it can make him be seen as a soft touch which isn't that much at odds with the weak displays we saw.

Diehard Si · Sep 16, 2012

Black6Osprey said:
They are more than capable, well capable would be nice but to be beyond capable is praise indeed.

Bury we drew after dominating so is this more than capable? A game we cant even win when we dominate.
Yeovil we didn't deserve to win that game so I dont know why you mention it.
Stevenage scored after 20 minutes so what about the other 70? Is this the more than capable you speak of?
What about Crewe, Dagenham and today?
We played for 20 minutes against Sheff Utd. I remember how everyone was walking home discussing how capable we seemed.

You can't say a team is more than capable when they are bottom but one of the third tier and don't look likely to change that against Shrewsbury. You can't ignore facts with some rose tinted optimism. You can't believe a team can be good because they play for 20 minutes. Any team can play well for a period during a game, even City last season when we got relegated had spells in games that we dominated but didn't score, lost the lead, sucker punch etc. Was that team more than capable as well?

You are missing my point I fear.

If this team was bottom having played awful in all the games then I would be probably giving up by now. My glimmer of hope' is that during spells of the game the players have put shifts in, played very well, controlled the games completely. That shows they are CAPABLE. They do have the talent there and the ability.

For whatever reason however they are not performing for all of the game, infact they are not even usually performing for half a game. It's 20 min spells here and there.

The frustration therefore is obvious, and something is clearly wrong. Fitness, tactics, self belief or conflict in the ranks... perhaps all of the above. No-one can defend that, it's simply awful and not good enough.

However they are things that CAN be fixed over time, with a new manager, a new attitude and with a few wins. To label the players useless as some people have is only half right at the mo. They are good players they are capable, they are playing VERY badly and at the moment just not performing enough.

I'm not denying this is our lowest point in decades, certainly my living memory. I can see the way out, I'm just hoping the new man finds it possible to do. It won't last forever this run ( just like when you win a few games and think you can go the season un-beaten ).

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 16, 2012

All teams are capable of occasional brilliance-it's the inconsistency that puts them where they are in the league. Individually I think we have a good side but it's all over the place and missing some authoritative leadership.

Perryccfc · Sep 16, 2012

What an absoloutly pathetic, clueless post that was! Sums up some city fans in 2 sentences. Nob!

SkyBlueScottie · Sep 16, 2012

Sick Boy said:
I am surprised that we have one of the largest wage bills in the league and not near the top though, after all, I thought that was all that really mattered?

Yet supposedly they are still in a grump cos their bonus structure has been slashed.....

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 16, 2012

Perryccfc said:
What an absoloutly pathetic, clueless post that was! Sums up some city fans in 2 sentences. Nob!

Care to elaborate with more cutting wit?

Sick Boy · Sep 16, 2012

Pigeon said:
It's rediculous to blame all this on Andy Thorn, the man who took the reins of this club when no one else, rightly so, would touch the job with a 10 foot pole with the uncertainty over the clubs future.

Based upon the number of applicants for the post recently, we can assume that there would actually have been quite a large number who would have been interested.

Thorn was appointed because it was demanded by the majority of supporters, some were even convinced he was the next John Sillet and one of the games most talented managers. Even now, his legend and the folklore will get passed on.

Sick Boy · Sep 16, 2012

SkyBlueScottie said:
Yet supposedly they are still in a grump cos their bonus structure has been slashed.....

I pity the poor lambs so much.

I applaud the cutting of the bonus structure, why should they get a bonus for turning up and doing their job. They get a bonus if they win, so maybe they should try a bit harder!

1nilandwe... · Sep 16, 2012

Sick Boy said:
I pity the poor lambs so much.

I applaud the cutting of the bonus structure, why should they get a bonus for turning up and doing their job. They get a bonus if they win, so maybe they should try a bit harder!

Exactly! It's worked for the Tories so why not for us?!?! Slash slash slash. I bet they're all on disability as well!!! (Insert David Bell joke here). And I'm pretty sure some of them are immigrants! Get rid of them all and their flavoursome cuisine!

lordsummerisle · Sep 16, 2012

1nilandwe... said:
Exactly! It's worked for the Tories so why not for us?!?! Slash slash slash. I bet they're all on disability as well!!! (Insert David Bell joke here). And I'm pretty sure some of them are immigrants! Get rid of them all and their flavoursome cuisine!

You're right we should all come out in support of professional footballers poor wages.

Can see them now warmimg their hands round a oil-drum fire outside the Ricoh, with "Stop the cuts" banners.

The best dressed strikers in the world, in their Armani suits, having to drive to their million pound home to their shame in last years Ferrari.

"Up the Workers" "You have nothing to lose except your chains".

1nilandwe... · Sep 16, 2012

Alternatively, they could turn up to work for a company which is well run and which honours the contracts which have been signed.

Surely you must see that cutting your whole workforce's wages just before they go out to work for you is an insane thing to do? Hardly the way to get them to run into the ground for you in front of a crowd baying for blood, for a club which lets face it, the vast majority of them couldn't give 2 shits about. Hardy the way to motivate them and show that you've got their interests at heart, and you're not going to pull the rug from under their carpets in 6 months time leaving them without a job.

I read a comment that some of the players want to use Arsenal as a shop window to get a move away. I cannot blame them one bit. What is the incentive for them to stick around at this toxic hole of a club?

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Sep 16, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
And those players have left the club whilst the chums remain. If a manager is more best mates with his players it can make him be seen as a soft touch which isn't that much at odds with the weak displays we saw.

Oh ok so Thorn forced Gael out of the club so his chums could remain :facepalm:

btw last time I checked ROD was still at the club unless someone else came on as sub yesterday

This pally, mates and chums atmosphere and we don't take training seriously is just speculation because the players said they like him and they add a y onto everyone's name

Mucca Mad Boys · Sep 16, 2012

PVA said:
Thorn - 3 points in 3 games

Shaw - 0 points in 3 games

Maybe he wasn't so bad after all?

Thorn was against arguably stronger opposition.

Mucca Mad Boys · Sep 16, 2012

lordsummerisle said:
"Up the Workers" "You have nothing to lose except your chains".

Wahey, bit of Karl Marx thrown in there!

But I don't think footballers can be classed as the exploited proletariat!

Sick Boy · Sep 16, 2012

1nilandwe... said:
Exactly! It's worked for the Tories so why not for us?!?! Slash slash slash. I bet they're all on disability as well!!! (Insert David Bell joke here). And I'm pretty sure some of them are immigrants! Get rid of them all and their flavoursome cuisine!

Priceless.

Sick Boy · Sep 16, 2012

CCFC said:
This pally, mates and chums atmosphere and we don't take training seriously is just speculation because the players said they like him and they add a y onto everyone's name

I wonder why they liked him so much, eh?

Throughout his reign the players didn't look fit enough, even this season, after Thorny's gruelling pre-season they still don't look fit enough. The club's demise last season and this season is collective of course, but he has to take a large part of the blame. It is unbelievable that even now some defend him, despite the damage that he has contributed to the club....it makes me so angry!!

corky · Sep 16, 2012

The CableGuy said:
Don't be daft man.

Its all clearly Bobby Gould's fault.

I think the real person to be blamed has to be Jimmy Hill,if he didn't put money in the club & get it run properly & bring it into the 1st division proper we wouldn't have this problem now .

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Sep 16, 2012

Sick Boy said:
I wonder why they liked him so much, eh?

Throughout his reign the players didn't look fit enough, even this season, after Thorny's gruelling pre-season they still don't look fit enough. The club's demise last season and this season is collective of course, but he has to take a large part of the blame. It is unbelievable that even now some defend him, despite the damage that he has contributed to the club....it makes me so angry!!

Yea of course he has some blame, we were shit for some reason. But to say we didn't take training seriously is just speculation.

Steve Harrison is a very experienced coach and worked under many managers, I would guess he would have a large input into training methods as well. So I can't see a man with his experience taking training lightly

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 16, 2012

CCFC said:
Oh ok so Thorn forced Gael out of the club so his chums could remain :facepalm:

btw last time I checked ROD was still at the club unless someone else came on as sub yesterday

This pally, mates and chums atmosphere and we don't take training seriously is just speculation because the players said they like him and they add a y onto everyone's name

Yes, that's clearly what I meant. What I and others are just driving at is that Thorn failed to command proper respect or discipline-a soft touch, in other words.

sky blue john · Sep 16, 2012

FFS leave the man alone your all idiots if you think he is responsible for the last three results !!!!
You got what you wanted he is no longer here.
Part of the problem is unrealistic supporters who think all the freebies we signed in the
Summer are world beaters !!!
Also the team we had last year is a million times better than the existing one !!!!

sky blue john · Sep 16, 2012

Also Alex Ferguson couldn't do anything with the group of players we currently have !!!

The real people to blame are the owners selling our best players and replacing with shit.
Whoever is the next manger the owners will have to support them in the loan and transfer market else expect more of the same folks.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 16, 2012

sky blue john said:
FFS leave the man alone your all idiots if you think he is responsible for the last three results !!!!
You got what you wanted he is no longer here.
Part of the problem is unrealistic supporters who think all the freebies we signed in the
Summer are world beaters !!!
Also the team we had last year is a million times better than the existing one !!!!

Nobody has said that to be fair. Is it unrealistic to deem them better than League One relegation fodder though?

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 16, 2012

sky blue john said:
Also Alex Ferguson couldn't do anything with the group of players we currently have !!!

The real people to blame are the owners selling our best players and replacing with shit.
Whoever is the next manger the owners will have to support them in the loan and transfer market else expect more of the same folks.

What complete twaddle.

Sick Boy · Sep 16, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
What complete twaddle.

It is one of my favourites.

Coventry City FC- The lower league version of Liverpool & Newcastle combined.

sky blue john · Sep 16, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Nobody has said that to be fair. Is it unrealistic to deem them better than League One relegation fodder though?

your deluded !!!
we had hundreds of posts saying that we
had a team that was automatic or play off material and better than last year. All we needed was a better manager. Memory failing you ?

Sba180 · Sep 16, 2012

author :facepalm:

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 16, 2012

Sick Boy said:
It is one of my favourites.

Coventry City FC- The lower league version of Liverpool & Newcastle combined.

The idea that the best manager in the history of English football could do no better than a total novice...come on :facepalm:

RichieGunns · Sep 16, 2012

sky blue john said:
your deluded !!!
we had hundreds of posts saying that we
had a team that was automatic or play off material and better than last year. All we needed was a better manager. Memory failing you ?

They have the skill, they have the ability! They've shown this on several, all be it limited, occassions.

There is something very wrong within our club. Something that isn't being tackled, its just being swept under the carpit.

I hope, really i do, that this situation gets sorted soon because if i doesn't, we wont have a club anymore...

I think we need to move on. Harping on about Thorn this, Thorn that is not going to make our situation any better.

It's done, its happened, we can't change it, no ones got a time machine to go back and make sure it doesn't happen (though i know some would probably go a lot further back than Thorn, I'd go back to before Richardson and makes sure he never got his hands on our club).

We have to look to the future, however bad it may look right now we have to stop looking back!

Only one man to blame for this- Thorn (3 Viewers)

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