Other clubs getting bitter... (8 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

With you Otis and maybe if enough of us say it fisher will see sense. Sisu what do you think is fair? Pay it please!!

 

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[BurbageSkyBlues]

Again. Rubbish. I never defended Thorn carte blanche. My issue was, as clearly stated, that for SISU to enter a season after they had seen the club finish 18th, and lose or sell King, Gunnarason, Jutkiewitz, Turner and Westwood; then to fund a rookie manager with less than 2 months experience within the bottom 3 in the league and expect us to finish anywhere else was crazy of them.

You just wanted to blame Thorn. Things must be easy in your life. However, I tried to see the bigger picture.

They forced people to hand over shares 5 years ago. The promise was a better tomorrow from a 'debt free' position. Now they say they need a rent reduction after not accommodating a renegotiation as part of their due diligence.

There's one common denominator here. Five years on, we're on the lower league position for two generation, with gates half of those of five years ago, riddled with debt and staring down the barrel of a winding up order.

And still, the only real culpability you see is in Thorn's management, and ACL's swollen rent. Incredible

Well said, mmm

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

MMM ditto.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

With you Otis and maybe if enough of us say it fisher will see sense. Sisu what do you think is fair? Pay it please!!

But wouldn't that be showing your cards? If we start paying 300k, ACL won't offer, say, for arguments sake, 200k, would they?

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Got to laugh, 'showing your cards' when there is a long standing legal contract in place... law of the jungle not the rule of law.

 

[Grendel]

Got to laugh, 'showing your cards' when there is a long standing legal contract in place... law of the jungle not the rule of law.

How much to you earn at ACL and what do you do there?

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Grendel it's nothing to do with ACL its the law of the land- you do understand that, right?. If businesses just ignored contracts everything would collapse in a heap.

...and you dont try and renegotiate a contract [out of term] by non payment and trying to damage the reputation of the contracted party- you do it in a professional business-like manner, not like a bunch of cowboys.

 

[Tonylinc]

With SBP all the way. Sisu have to decide on a "fair rent" AND PAY IT. From their point of view it will be a start at re-building some bridges. Remember that after all this stuff has been settled they still have to deal with the stadium owners.

 

[wingy]

With you Otis and maybe if enough of us say it fisher will see sense. Sisu what do you think is fair? Pay it please!!

Think there may be an issue here.

If ACL accepted an arbitary level of payment from sisu i'm pretty sure it would cloud the legal position that currently supports their legal rights.

If ACL accepted a notional level ,there is no gaurantee that sisu may stop again further down the line .

The best thing Sisu could do as a gesture would be to top up the Escrow , as legally instructed ,if they wish to continue the Strike and get

through to the end of the season ,when both parties would have time and room to either renew the marriage vows or take the divorce route.:thinking about:

 

[Grendel]

With SBP all the way. Sisu have to decide on a "fair rent" AND PAY IT. From their point of view it will be a start at re-building some bridges. Remember that after all this stuff has been settled they still have to deal with the stadium owners.

Legally I would guess ACL would be very reluctant to accept a payment below the full amount for very obvious reasons.

 

[withers]

Not going to take any lectures on ethics from the manager of MK effing Dons

 

[Otis]

Legally I would guess ACL would be very reluctant to accept a payment below the full amount for very obvious reasons.

One of their statements though quite clearly talked of a payment of 'some' rent.

 

[Otis]

Not going to take any lectures on ethics from the manager of MK effing Dons

Yeah. It's like living next door to Robert Mugabe and have him telling you that your leylandii are 6 inches taller than the legal limit required.

 

[Grendel]

One of their statements though quite clearly talked of a payment of 'some' rent.

I think that was actually a bit of a smokescreen. They are paying march day costs but I would assume that is separate to actual rent.

 

[Tonylinc]

Legally I would guess ACL would be very reluctant to accept a payment below the full amount for very obvious reasons.

Any rent paid by Sisu could be accepted by ACL "without prejudice", thus un-affecting their legal rights to pursue CCFC for the shortfall.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Any rent paid by Sisu could be accepted by ACL "without prejudice", thus un-affecting their legal rights to pursue CCFC for the shortfall.

I agree. It would show a tiny bit of good faith in my eyes

 

[ashbyjan]

Can we stop talking about fair rents, average rents, any rents - SISU don't want to pay any rent because they simply want to break ACL - even pro SISU posters have agreed that this is what is going on. If SISU were negotiating openly to buy at fair price then we could be discussing whether we like them as the arena owners etc but this underhand deliberate undermining of a company to get it cheap and flip it is the distasteful face of capitalism. Don't believe CCFC will be stadium owners even if SISU get it - it will be sold and CCFC will remain tenants.

 

[Grendel]

Can we stop talking about fair rents, average rents, any rents - SISU don't want to pay any rent because they simply want to break ACL - even pro SISU posters have agreed that this is what is going on. If SISU were negotiating openly to buy at fair price then we could be discussing whether we like them as the arena owners etc but this underhand deliberate undermining of a company to get it cheap and flip it is the distasteful face of capitalism. Don't believe CCFC will be stadium owners even if SISU get it - it will be sold and CCFC will remain tenants.

If ACL believe that why don't they just agree on the figure fisher wants, actually reduce it? Then sisu will reject the offer and the truth will be confirmed.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If ACL believe that why don't they just agree on the figure fisher wants, actually reduce it? Then sisu will reject the offer and the truth will be confirmed.

He's right!! Acl show sisu up for the monsters they are and the discussion changes. Completely agree!! Well said

 

[Tonylinc]

Can we stop talking about fair rents, average rents, any rents - SISU don't want to pay any rent because they simply want to break ACL - even pro SISU posters have agreed that this is what is going on. If SISU were negotiating openly to buy at fair price then we could be discussing whether we like them as the arena owners etc but this underhand deliberate undermining of a company to get it cheap and flip it is the distasteful face of capitalism. Don't believe CCFC will be stadium owners even if SISU get it - it will be sold and CCFC will remain tenants.

Your absolutely correct. What on earth was I thinking (that Sisu were on the level......stupid me)

 

[ashbyjan]

I would guess because the number Fisher wants is strategically set at below their costs etc. And maybe thats suddenly why Joy now questioning paying rates etc. If you move the goalposts often enough you can always ensure a non agreement.

 

[Otis]

Fair call.

We will see the true picture then won't we.

 

[Grendel]

I would guess because the number Fisher wants is strategically set at below their costs etc. And maybe thats suddenly why Joy now questioning paying rates etc. If you move the goalposts often enough you can always ensure a non agreement.

I don't think so. I think that if they offered a £200,000 rent and charged the arrears at the same level there would be no way that they could reject on the basis of unfairness.

You have constantly said that ACL can make money without the club so I do not really see the issue with that. ACL keep the gold mine and the club gets what it wants - and if it says no then we all know the true inyent

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Can we stop talking about fair rents, average rents, any rents - SISU don't want to pay any rent because they simply want to break ACL - even pro SISU posters have agreed that this is what is going on. If SISU were negotiating openly to buy at fair price then we could be discussing whether we like them as the arena owners etc but this underhand deliberate undermining of a company to get it cheap and flip it is the distasteful face of capitalism. Don't believe CCFC will be stadium owners even if SISU get it - it will be sold and CCFC will remain tenants.

Firstly, we will only be able to buy a 50% share at least till we get to prem, also, I'm not 100% sure (so correct me if I'm wrong), but isn't 1 of the clauses in any deal to buy the stadium that it'll be in CCFC's name, not SISUs (or any other owners)? ACL's duty regarding any deal is to safeguard the club.

Also, I don't think the council would share the half of the pie, too much money for them.

I agree this is showing capitalism in bad light - hey, that is the system!

 

[Grendel]

Interesting the sky blue trust view is that if you back the clubs stance on this issue you are "pro Sisu"

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I would guess because the number Fisher wants is strategically set at below their costs etc. And maybe thats suddenly why Joy now questioning paying rates etc. If you move the goalposts often enough you can always ensure a non agreement.

What would the SBT (trust) do for CCFC then!?

 

[wingy]

What would the SBT (trust) do for CCFC then!?

Represent poeple with a sense of fairness and deserved sceptism of our owners rather than duplicitous cocks like you for a start.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Represent poeple with a sense of fairness and deserved sceptism of our owners rather than duplicitous cocks like you for a start.

So... Keep paying rent that is over market value? Great. I don't even think the trust could raise 1.28 million for rent let alone the rest. In a capitalist system, football clubs cannot be owned by 'the fans', not practical. Evidence? How many trusts are there in the prem or championship? Pompey being the biggest fan owned club (if successful) in England? Says it all for me.

Funny how you call me "duplicitous" when it's me (and others) who are standing by CCFC, not ACL. I think you need to look at yourself.

 

[wingy]

Its not conscription to be a City fan its a free choice ,there are no badges of honour be you a ST ,Member, whatever .I f I hold Sisu in contempt, its for me deserved, and no attempt to couch or stifle debate through the ,How can you call yourself a fan? Is going to achieve that aim.

 

[Tonylinc]

I suspect that I may well come under fire here from those Sisu supporting types SO before that happens let me set out my position.

Sisu entered into the purchase of our club AFTER due dilligence.
I assume that the rent was part of that process.
If they now wish to re-negotiate that rent (due to loss of income.....which was their own fault) then do so BUT only in the right way.
Stopping any payment IS NOT the right way.

To do so only tells me that they have another agenda. ie to see ACL and Higgs become distressed.
That is not the correct way to go about things.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Its not conscription to be a City fan its a free choice ,there are no badges of honour be you a ST ,Member, whatever .I f I hold Sisu in contempt, its for me deserved, and no attempt to couch or stifle debate through the ,How can you call yourself a fan? Is going to achieve that aim.

Ok, I've never questioned whether you support CCFC or not, on CJ who has took extreme stances such as "I hope ACL lock us out".

It is a right to hold any owners in contempt, but say I'm treacherous for having a different opinion is disgraceful on your part, when so happens to be you're supporting the other side here, not me.

 

[mrtickle]

Grendel it's nothing to do with ACL its the law of the land- you do understand that, right?. If businesses just ignored contracts everything would collapse in a heap.

...and you dont try and renegotiate a contract [out of term] by non payment and trying to damage the reputation of the contracted party- you do it in a professional business-like manner, not like a bunch of cowboys.

It's the law to pay tax but I don't see Starbucks doing that. It's all part of their hardball negotiation. Whilst I don't like SISU, I love the club. I don't think the council have been fair to the club. If it takes sisu not paying for the club to get a better deal I don't care.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

No Starbucks didn't break the law, they used international tax mechanisms to gain benefits- not ethical but legal.
Sisu are breaking the law (allegedly melud), and that means placing the club at risk, legally, financially and with the FL. That's not the way to run any reputable business.

 

[Grendel]

No Starbucks didn't break the law, they used international tax mechanisms to gain benefits- not ethical but legal.
Sisu are breaking the law (allegedly melud), and that means placing the club at risk, legally, financially and with the FL. That's not the way to run any reputable business.

It isn't unless it gets the correct result - then it is.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Grendel that attitude is exactly why we are unlikely to 'get away' totally with this - because such cowboy practices undermine the financial, legal and operational basis of the football league; can they leave it be as a shoddy business precedent....