Palmer Suspension (7 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

As in "appropriate" would be whether he gets a yellow or a red depending on his actions.

It really is cut & dry unfortunately.

View attachment 34665

Nice one, you could have posted that a few pages back

Which rule does it come under? Would have thought law 12 which seems to have things about substitutes but can't spot it there. Admittedly I'm skimming sat in a line of traffic!

 

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[Frostie]

And yet:

View attachment 34666

Wrong section, that's for Team Officials.
Either way you could hardly say it wasn't "blatant" anyway!

Nice one, you could have posted that a few pages back

Which rule does it come under? Would have thought law 12 which seems to have things about substitutes but can't spot it there. Admittedly I'm skimming sat in a line of traffic!

Yep. L12 S3 - Cautionable Offences

 

[shmmeee]

Wrong section, that's for Team Officials.
Either way you could hardly say it wasn't "blatant" anyway!



Yep. L12 S3 - Cautionable Offences

IT was neither disrespectful nor disruptive, nor an attempt to fool the ref or impact the game. The idea that’s what the rule is for is ludicrous. If you read it by the letter you’d have to book ever player who leave the pitch without asking first, you’d also be booking half the squad. Obviously that’s not the rule so clearly there’s discretion. If you think celebrating a last minute winner is disrespectful or impacting the game I don’t know what to say. The rule needs to go.

 

[Frostie]

IT was neither disrespectful nor disruptive, nor an attempt to fool the ref or impact the game. The idea that’s what the rule is for is ludicrous. If you read it by the letter you’d have to book ever player who leave the pitch without asking first, you’d also be booking half the squad. Obviously that’s not the rule so clearly there’s discretion. If you think celebrating a last minute winner is disrespectful or impacting the game I don’t know what to say. The rule needs to go.

No, I think he entered the field of play without the referee's permission.
It's as obvious a yellow card as you will ever see which KP himself admits?

 

[shmmeee]

No, I think he entered the field of play without the referee's permission.
It's as obvious a yellow card as you will ever see which KP himself admits?

Which half the subs bench does every match without a mention. We’re going in circles.

 

[David O'Day]

No, I think he entered the field of play without the referee's permission.
It's as obvious a yellow card as you will ever see which KP himself admits?

I think the point he is making is the law was not really written for situations such as this. I see why it is but it's clearly intended for players seeking to gain an advantage while the game is in play. Also his point about why was not every city sub who entered the pitch booked? This looks like either a mistake by the ref or that he is allowed a degree of subjectivity on who gets cautioned for this offence?

 

[Frostie]

It's impossible for the ref to win...

We want them to be consistent & apply the laws of the game to the letter yet also simultaneously being empathetic, apply common sense or just plain ignore them when it suits.

Yes, other players began to run on the pitch, by rights he could book them all, but he also has to think about managing the game & the situation. The ref glared at them & they thought better of it & retreated. Palmer did not. Unless we're saying we want Dasilva banned too I'm not sure what we're campaigning for here?



I think the ref handled the situation perfectly, understood the emotion & gravitas of the situation & cut them a little leeway & I'm sure his assessor will cut him some slack for that too.
A substituted player sprinting the entire width of the pitch for a knee slide in front of the fans is very different though & had he not booked him he'd be getting at least a stern word himself from the assessor.
I would have done the exact same if I was refereeing tbh.

 

[shmmeee]

It's impossible for the ref to win...

We want them to be consistent & apply the laws of the game to the letter yet also simultaneously being empathetic, apply common sense or just plain ignore them when it suits.

Yes, other players began to run on the pitch, by rights he could book them all, but he also has to think about managing the game & the situation. The ref glared at them & they thought better of it & retreated. Palmer did not. Unless we're saying we want Dasilva banned too I'm not sure what we're campaigning for here?



I think the ref handled the situation perfectly, understood the emotion & gravitas of the situation & cut them a little leeway & I'm sure his assessor will cut him some slack for that too.
A substituted player sprinting the entire width of the pitch for a knee slide in front of the fans is very different though & had he not booked him he'd be getting at least a stern word himself from the assessor.
I would have done the exact same if I was refereeing tbh.

Yes consistent. Book everyone who enters/leaves the pitch without permission, or admit it’s a judgement call and this was a poor one.

 

[shmmeee]

Genuinely can’t believe people are defending booking players for celebrations. Palmers yellow was a joke. Diallos was too. It all needs to go. Completely antithetical to the spirit of the game.

 

[SBT]

Unless we're saying we want Dasilva banned too

Is it too late for us to appeal to the FA on this one?

 

[David O'Day]

It's impossible for the ref to win...

We want them to be consistent & apply the laws of the game to the letter yet also simultaneously being empathetic, apply common sense or just plain ignore them when it suits.

Yes, other players began to run on the pitch, by rights he could book them all, but he also has to think about managing the game & the situation. The ref glared at them & they thought better of it & retreated. Palmer did not. Unless we're saying we want Dasilva banned too I'm not sure what we're campaigning for here?



I think the ref handled the situation perfectly, understood the emotion & gravitas of the situation & cut them a little leeway & I'm sure his assessor will cut him some slack for that too.
A substituted player sprinting the entire width of the pitch for a knee slide in front of the fans is very different though & had he not booked him he'd be getting at least a stern word himself from the assessor.
I would have done the exact same if I was refereeing tbh.

So by that logic the ref doesn't have to automatically book anyone as he has the ability to be subjective. Thanks for confirming.

Also the law in question is clearly designed to deal with players who enter the pitch during play.

 

[Frostie]

Yes consistent. Book everyone who enters/leaves the pitch without permission, or admit it’s a judgement call and this was a poor one.

In your opinion as a biased Coventry fan. If I was neutral I would say it was a very good judgment & I'm certain the FA & PGMOL would say the same.

Genuinely can’t believe people are defending booking players for celebrations. Palmers yellow was a joke. Diallos was too. It all needs to go. Completely antithetical to the spirit of the game.

That's a different argument & one which I can get behind. Also, the fact that accumulated yellows are competition specific but red cards are not is stupid too as is not taking into account replays in the accumulation count but again, not the refs doing.

 

[Calista]

If the rule wasn't there (or wasn't enforced for blatant acts like KP's) you'd be giving carte blanche for the whole bench to run on and join in with on-field celebrations, which would be chaos.
He was crazy to do what he did, and it's so disappointing because he could have been a weapon for us at Wembley, and the squad is stretched.
Hopefully COH will see it as a golden opportunity to showcase what he can do.

 

[David O'Day]

If the rule wasn't there (or wasn't enforced for blatant acts like KP's) you'd be giving carte blanche for the whole bench to run on and join in with on-field celebrations, which would be chaos.
He was crazy to do what he did, and it's so disappointing because he could have been a weapon for us at Wembley, and the squad is stretched.
Hopefully COH will see it as a golden opportunity to showcase what he can do.

nonsense

 

[shmmeee]

In your opinion as a biased Coventry fan. If I was neutral I would say it was a very good judgment & I'm certain the FA & PGMOL would say the same.


That's a different argument & one which I can get behind. Also, the fact that accumulated yellows are competition specific but red cards are not is stupid too as is not taking into account replays in the accumulation count but again, not the refs doing.

It’s the same argument. I’m not a Man Itd fan but think it’s a disgrace Diallo is suspended. Ever since this ludicrous rule around shirts came in people have been defending it as “you know the rule”, but not actually defending the rule.


Referees very clearly do not book every player who enters the pitch, not ever sub who celebrates with his team. This thread seems to have invented the new offence of “running too far and doing a knee slide” to back up the ref’s decision. It’s a poor law and one he could easily have ignored as refs do every single game.

 

[David O'Day]

It’s the same argument. I’m not a Man Itd fan but think it’s a disgrace Diallo is suspended. Ever since this ludicrous rule around shirts came in people have been defending it as “you know the rule”, but not actually defending the rule.


Referees very clearly do not book every player who enters the pitch, not ever sub who celebrates with his team. This thread seems to have invented the new offence of “running too far and doing a knee slide” to back up the ref’s decision. It’s a poor law and one he could easily have ignored as refs do every single game.

Wan-Bissaka is in the celebration huddle for the Diallo goal and wasn't booked.

 

[Calista]

This thread seems to have invented the new offence of “running too far and doing a knee slide” to back up the ref’s decision. It’s a poor law and one he could easily have ignored as refs do every single game.

I agree he could (and maybe should) have ignored it in this instance, but you can't say it's a poor law! The ref has to have control over who is allowed on the pitch, and be able to apply sanctions.

 

[Calista]

nonsense

Which bit, or all of it?

 

[stupot07]

I agree he could (and maybe should) have ignored it in this instance, but you can't say it's a poor law! The ref has to have control over who is allowed on the pitch, and be able to apply sanctions.

Yeah, the only person to blame is Kasey Palmer. The yellow card isn't going to be rescinded regardless of how we feel about it. The rule is clear, no other player or backroom staff did it. Yes occasionally subs do infringe the pitch but it's usually because they celebrating in front of them, so the infringement is minor. I can't ever remember seeing someone running 60-70 yards across the pitch to celebrate.

If this had been a wolves player no one on here would have an issues.if that had been an opposition player at the CSB we would be giving them pelters.

I agree that taking your shirt off shouldn't be a yellow.

It's the law even if the law is an ass.

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[shmmeee]

I agree he could (and maybe should) have ignored it in this instance, but you can't say it's a poor law! The ref has to have control over who is allowed on the pitch, and be able to apply sanctions.

It’s a poor law because it’s written in a way that means the subs who run on while warming up every game should be booked as should half the squad for any given last minute important winner. The bench celebrating isn’t something that should result in a ban. Short of abusive or dangerous or overly long celebrations frankly the ref should stay well out and even then I’d deal with retrospectively or with added time.

The reaction to this and the short rule is completely binary. Smug gits who didn’t like the player go “but you knew the rule “ and everyone else goes “that’s a fucking joke”. Seems like a pretty good indicator of a terrible rule. Needs rewriting to cover just offences that are outside of celebrations for me.

 

[shmmeee]

Also technically this covers the end of the game too until the ref leaves the pitch. Is that really the rule we want?

 

[Otis]

Yeah, the only person to blame is Kasey Palmer. The yellow card isn't going to be rescinded regardless of how we feel about it. The rule is clear, no other player or backroom staff did it. Yes occasionally subs do infringe the pitch but it's usually because they celebrating in front of them, so the infringement is minor. I can't ever remember seeing someone running 60-70 yards across the pitch to celebrate, and then nonchalantly walking back over the pitch to get back to the dug out.

If this had been a wolves player no one on here would have an issues.if that had been an opposition player at the CSB we would be giving them pelters.

I agree that taking your shirt off shouldn't be a yellow.

It's the law even if the law is an ass.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

That seems a very biased view there, stupot and coming from a place where you already don't really rate the player.

How many games have you seen with a finish like that, in a game as big as that?

And why have to mention "nonchalantly?" Was he booked for walking back nonchalantly?

I don't blame him at all. Just a player caught up in a most fantastic moment.

 

[Johnnythespider]

Couldn't he have just run around the pitch to join the celebrations, I remember Gyokeres doing it after a late goal once, he came out of the dugout like a whippet ran down the touchline then in front of the away end and joined in with the team in the corner, I guess he just got caught up in the moment and doubt he realised it would result in a ban. It's a shame he's going to miss the game whether as a starter or on the bench.

 

[Calista]

Wild celebrations are brilliant, the game would be pointless without them. But I really can't see what's wrong with the 11 players going crazy on the pitch, and everyone else going crazy off the pitch?

The rule is there for good reason, and contrary to the claim that it's binary, clearly refs can (and do) turn a blind eye to minor infringements. So we are only arguing about whether KP was asking for it, and in my view he was. He basically even said he was!

 

[David O'Day]

Wild celebrations are brilliant, the game would be pointless without them. But I really can't see what's wrong with the 11 players going crazy on the pitch, and everyone else going crazy off the pitch?

The rule is there for good reason, and contrary to the claim that it's binary, clearly refs can (and do) turn a blind eye to minor infringements. So we are only arguing about whether KP was asking for it, and in my view he was. He basically even said he was!

That isn't what the rule is there for. Basically it's a law that seems to be written with a view to stopping subs and subbed players from interfering with play and not to police celebrations.

 

[shmmeee]

All I’m saying is, come the fascist state, I know who in this thread to trust.

 

[chiefdave]

Wrong section, that's for Team Officials.
Either way you could hardly say it wasn't "blatant" anyway!



Yep. L12 S3 - Cautionable Offences

Thanks for that mate, just having a read

Think we can throw out the idea that the ref has no choice but to give a yellow card for the offences listed under ‘a player is cautioned if guilty of’ as the list contains multiple things we see happen over and over again every game without a caution being given. There would be nobody left on the pitch if the rules were applied on the basis that the officials have no discretion and have to apply the letter of the law

Think this is where the frustration is coming from. I can’t imagine any Wolves fan, or any football fan for that matter, would have complained if Palmer hadn’t been cautioned.

Couple that with things like the kung fu kick on O’Hare going unpunished after we’ve seen several of our players recently pick up injuries without cautions being given and you’re going to have unhappy supporters who don’t have confidence in officiating

 

[MalcSB]

Yeah, the only person to blame is Kasey Palmer. The yellow card isn't going to be rescinded regardless of how we feel about it. The rule is clear, no other player or backroom staff did it. Yes occasionally subs do infringe the pitch but it's usually because they celebrating in front of them, so the infringement is minor. I can't ever remember seeing someone running 60-70 yards across the pitch to celebrate, and then nonchalantly walking back over the pitch to get back to the dug out.

If this had been a wolves player no one on here would have an issues.if that had been an opposition player at the CSB we would be giving them pelters.

I agree that taking your shirt off shouldn't be a yellow.

It's the law even if the law is an ass.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Does he walk nonchalantly back across the pitch. Looking at the video in Frosties post #253 above, it looks like Palmer walking back behind the goal and around the perimeter of the pitch. Albeit at long distance.

 

[stupot07]

That seems a very biased view there, stupot and coming from a place where you already don't really rate the player.

How many games have you seen with a finish like that, in a game as big as that?

And why have to mention "nonchalantly?" Was he booked for walking back nonchalantly?

I don't blame him at all. Just a player caught up in a most fantastic moment.

Sorry Otis, if it had been Pirlo (aka Sheaf) I would also say it was his fault. It's nothing to do with how much I do and don't rate a player. It's not biased it's fact.

You could that about any intensly emotional situation good or bad. Non of the other players or staff did it, they showed self control in an emotional situation, Palmer decided to run 60 yards across the pitch and knee slide.

I'll take back the nonchalantly bit.

You don't blame him, that's fine. I do, that's fine.

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[stupot07]

Does he work nonchalantly back across the pitch. Looking at the video in Frosties post #253 above, it looks like Palmer walking back behind the goal and around the perimeter of the pitch. Albeit at long distance.

To be fair, I can't remember, I'm going by what someone else has said earlier in the thread.

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[MalcSB]

To be fair, I can't remember, I'm going by what someone else has said earlier in the thread.

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I thought you might be.

 

[stupot07]

I also wondered this. Don’t quote me but from memory pretty sure KP trotted back across the pitch to get back to the bench as well .

This was the post

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[MalcSB]

This was the post

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Just goes to show you cant rely on anything said on here.

 

[Otis]

Sorry Otis, if it had been Pirlo (aka Sheaf) I would also say it was his fault. It's nothing to do with how much I do and don't rate a player. It's not biased it's fact.

You could that about any intensly emotional situation good or bad. Non of the other players or staff did it, they showed self control in an emotional situation, Palmer decided to run 60 yards across the pitch and knee slide.

I'll take back the nonchalantly bit.

You don't blame him, that's fine. I do, that's fine.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Fine, but as I said, just because other players didn't run on, doesn't make it wrong for Palmer to run on (given the sensational moment that had just taken place)

Some players celebrate more than others. Some go crazy, others are a bit more reserved.

We are the same as fans in the stadium. Some jump up and down when we score, others just stand up and clap.

Palmer has been through so much shit of late, I am not at all surprised that he was fired up on Saturday and what a release that proved to be.

I am just assuming.of course, but the events at Hillsborough really did upset him greatly.

Others didn't run on, but I don't think you can hold all players to the same account in their thought processes.

No doubt if he thought about it, he may not have ran on, but if anyone thinks that, that goal went in and it crossed his mind that he would be booked, is just plain daft in my opinion.

I'm sure as soon as he got there and joined in and it settled down a little, he then realised

In such a fabulous day, I don't think anyone should be blamed for anything.

Robins made a mistake too, but I don't blame him for that either. The emotion got the better of him, just as it did, Palmer.

 

[Warwickhunt]

It's a very emotive subject and letter of the law is a yellow card! But all this focus on the Palmer Booking is taking the heat off the Ref and VAR for the incident against COH isn't it? That's the one that should be looked at again!