Nick
Administrator
It depends if clowns like you with no interest in CCFC still keep trying to blow smoke up their arses at every opportunity or try to make out they aren't giving tickets away.
If giving tickets away destroys their income won't it be OK by you?
Your paranoia is showing again.It depends if clowns like you with no interest in CCFC still keep trying to blow smoke up their arses at every opportunity or try to make out they aren't giving tickets away.
Your paranoia is showing again.
It's a shame your reply to my PM explaining why you needed 2 accounts to push your nonsense licking the arse of everybody but CCFC at the same time isn't showing either.
It isn't paranoia either, it's fact.
I think you need to check your blood pressure.
Fuck me how long did that take to whack up?Average attendance 6 mths to 31/12/2015 - 15331
Average attendance 6 mths to 31/12/2016 - 16102
Average league attendance 6 mths to 31/12/2017- 16207 (with one game still to play)
F&B spend per head at rugby matches 2016 £6.32 2015 £5.84
How many free tickets are actually taken up ? Clearly the published accounts show significant Sporting income. It costs Wasps next to nothing to offer empty seats for free in a stadium that is statistically half empty on average but it could gain them income contribution from other sources, even attract future paying customers. I would guess actual take up of free tickets (ie those actually used) is significantly less than 1000 for league games. There might be more for cup games but most clubs budget cup games as extra income above the budget. It is irrelevant to focus on the numbers on offer, it is the take up of free tickets that is significant, clearly the sporting income of Wasps compares favourably with other leading rugby teams and yet Wasps are still not the best supported. Wasps are still trying to endear themselves to the local community free tickets is a tried and tested marketing ploy and they would know the take up and plan accordingly as to whether it is worth it. A group game against a French team that will bring few fans in a match that could be irrelevant in terms of qualification is not a match to judge the financial performance of the group but to create atmosphere and maximise income then free tickets would seem a sensible ploy in a ground half full or less
in year to 30/06/2016 Wasps had Sporting turnover of 12m out of total of 31m and loans outstanding 43m the same year Saracens the European champions 2017 had a sporting turnover of £11.2m out of a turnover of 15m and loans outstanding of 43m. In 2016 Turnovers total Exeter 17m Leicester £19m Northampton £9M Bath £17m Gloucester £15m
F&B is clearly significant at 6.32 per head if that is maintained. Rugby fans are a different breed to football fans. Significant numbers turn up several hours before the match and stay after the match to drink & eat. If the 6.32 per head has been maintained then so far this season just on league games Wasps have a F&B turnover of £512k so far after 5 matches in the league
I do wish people would look at the easily available facts rather than dress up hearsay and hopeful opinion as certainty
Lol. You haven't read the conversation have you.Is this not correct then .....
CCFC retaining 100 per cent of ticket sales revenue.
The club also receives a slice of income from car parking and half of food and drink sales on matchdays?
So if we managed to give away extra free tickets if they bought food and drink would we not get 50%
Where are you getting all the attendance figures from. Most of thr time they don't release the figure's especially when its a lower crowd?Average attendance 6 mths to 31/12/2015 - 15331
Average attendance 6 mths to 31/12/2016 - 16102
Average league attendance 6 mths to 31/12/2017- 16207 (with one game still to play)
F&B spend per head at rugby matches 2016 £6.32 2015 £5.84
How many free tickets are actually taken up ? Clearly the published accounts show significant Sporting income. It costs Wasps next to nothing to offer empty seats for free in a stadium that is statistically half empty on average but it could gain them income contribution from other sources, even attract future paying customers. I would guess actual take up of free tickets (ie those actually used) is significantly less than 1000 for league games. There might be more for cup games but most clubs budget cup games as extra income above the budget. It is irrelevant to focus on the numbers on offer, it is the take up of free tickets that is significant, clearly the sporting income of Wasps compares favourably with other leading rugby teams and yet Wasps are still not the best supported. Wasps are still trying to endear themselves to the local community free tickets is a tried and tested marketing ploy and they would know the take up and plan accordingly as to whether it is worth it. A group game against a French team that will bring few fans in a match that could be irrelevant in terms of qualification is not a match to judge the financial performance of the group but to create atmosphere and maximise income then free tickets would seem a sensible ploy in a ground half full or less
in year to 30/06/2016 Wasps had Sporting turnover of 12m out of total of 31m and loans outstanding 43m the same year Saracens the European champions 2017 had a sporting turnover of £11.2m out of a turnover of 15m and loans outstanding of 43m. In 2016 Turnovers total Exeter 17m Leicester £19m Northampton £9M Bath £17m Gloucester £15m
F&B is clearly significant at 6.32 per head if that is maintained. Rugby fans are a different breed to football fans. Significant numbers turn up several hours before the match and stay after the match to drink & eat. If the 6.32 per head has been maintained then so far this season just on league games Wasps have a F&B turnover of £512k so far after 5 matches in the league
I do wish people would look at the easily available facts rather than dress up hearsay and hopeful opinion as certainty
Wouldn't that be terrific!If giving tickets away destroys their income won't it be OK by you?
Yup.£80k from 13k tickets but without the ticket price to cover the increase staffing and security etc. £6 per head spend likely to be heavily skewed by corporate attendees in any case.
£80k from 13k tickets but without the ticket price to cover the increase staffing and security etc. £6 per head spend likely to be heavily skewed by corporate attendees in any case.
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Where are you getting all the attendance figures from. Most of thr time they don't release the figure's especially when its a lower crowd?
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Not always the case, I know people who are mad on freebies and go because it's free (not just that) but groupon etc too. They would quite easily go and get a free meal or day out and not spend a penny there.I did say IF they maintained the per head figure fp but it is very probable that 12800 extra tickets that cost little would generate income isn't it. There are some costs but the stewarding and police costs etc are not as big as for football and all stands are already open . Is it skewed by hospitality yes quite likely but not entirely and perhaps people with free tickets might feel free to spend on other things. The likelihood of 12800 free ticket holders actually turning up is pretty remote isn't it ?
Fuck me how long did that take to whack up?
You can keep banging the drum reg Wasps till your hearts content but you know as well as everyone else Wasps gates (paying customer) are looking like there going down. Now I’m pretty sure like others here who have posted it’s been mentioned are a heck more than the 1,000 tickets your post indicated dishes out.
You don’t know nor do I but don’t belittle anyone just because they believe or make assumptions. My belief like many others close to Wasps is there is a problem around the corner.
I do, but if giving away 2 free for every council employee and 4,000 for another game is less than before then how many were they giving away then?
I'll say it again as you are a bit slow, the club gets ~15% of F&B turnover, so does Wasps, the remaining 70% is part income & part costs for service partners Compass who run the catering, it is up to them to make their profit from that part.
Average attendance 6 mths to 31/12/2015 - 15331
Average attendance 6 mths to 31/12/2016 - 16102
Average league attendance 6 mths to 31/12/2017- 16207 (with one game still to play)
F&B spend per head at rugby matches 2016 £6.32 2015 £5.84
How many free tickets are actually taken up ? Clearly the published accounts show significant Sporting income. It costs Wasps next to nothing to offer empty seats for free in a stadium that is statistically half empty on average but it could gain them income contribution from other sources, even attract future paying customers. I would guess actual take up of free tickets (ie those actually used) is significantly less than 1000 for league games. There might be more for cup games but most clubs budget cup games as extra income above the budget. It is irrelevant to focus on the numbers on offer, it is the take up of free tickets that is significant, clearly the sporting income of Wasps compares favourably with other leading rugby teams and yet Wasps are still not the best supported. Wasps are still trying to endear themselves to the local community free tickets is a tried and tested marketing ploy and they would know the take up and plan accordingly as to whether it is worth it. A group game against a French team that will bring few fans in a match that could be irrelevant in terms of qualification is not a match to judge the financial performance of the group but to create atmosphere and maximise income then free tickets would seem a sensible ploy in a ground half full or less
in year to 30/06/2016 Wasps had Sporting turnover of 12m out of total of 31m and loans outstanding 43m the same year Saracens the European champions 2017 had a sporting turnover of £11.2m out of a turnover of 15m and loans outstanding of 43m. In 2016 Turnovers total Exeter 17m Leicester £19m Northampton £9M Bath £17m Gloucester £15m
F&B is clearly significant at 6.32 per head if that is maintained. Rugby fans are a different breed to football fans. Significant numbers turn up several hours before the match and stay after the match to drink & eat. If the 6.32 per head has been maintained then so far this season just on league games Wasps have a F&B turnover of £512k so far after 5 matches in the league
I do wish people would look at the easily available facts rather than dress up hearsay and hopeful opinion as certainty
Not always the case, I know people who are mad on freebies and go because it's free (not just that) but groupon etc too. They would quite easily go and get a free meal or day out and not spend a penny there.
Don't doubt that some will go and buy a few beers though.
I think I know about 7 people who have been on freebies, none of them would actually pay to go. A couple of them would have bought 3 pints or so though.
Don't think its been mentioned but where do these freebies come from? In New Zealand company's take up sponsorships with local grounds/rugby/football teams and included in the sponsorship are x amount of tickets per game/event to be given to who ever they want to. So in affect on gameday they are free tickets but in reality paid via annual sponsorship,.I think I know about 7 people who have been on freebies, none of them would actually pay to go. A couple of them would have bought 3 pints or so though.
Just had a look at the fixtures for this season vs last season in terms of corresponding fixtures
Wasps home attendance's (corresponding fixture last season) [+/-% crowd]
Sale 12,108 (12329)
Quins 12,806 (16,004)
Bath 15,488 (26,292)
Newcastle 16,073 (15, 033)
Leicester 22,148 ( 27,930)
Total 78,623 (97,588) -18965 (-20%)
Ave 15,724 (19,516)
Down 20% on last season.
Will be interesting to see the next set of accounts. I'll be surprised if they are as healthy as the last set.
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Sorry if you feel belittled but come up with some provable facts for your assertions. So far the only thing put forward is that there are a lot of free tickets available something most accept but have no idea as to how many are taken up. In theory with average crowds of 16k then there is a possible 16k free tickets available every match on top of those given away already. But they don't affect the financials.
Not banging any drum for wasps. I do not want them here and never have. But it is about know your enemy. Because unless you do then it is harder to understand how it all affects Ccfc which is the club important to me for the last 50 years. Wasps are here and in my opinion though there might be peaks and troughs I don't see them leaving in any manner or soon Also understanding and investigating finances is what I do and I am good at it - that doesn't mean I always get it right but I give an informed opinion based on knowledge and experience
In terms of crowds head to head in fixtures crowds are down 17% currently. Year on year comparing financial periods they are fractionally up. It is the finances that will make or break.
- So how did they achieve a 12m sporting turnover in 2016 if it is all based on free tickets?
- how many free tickets are taken up? Unless you know that you have no idea about how the finances are affected so assertions of going bust because of it have no firm basis
- is the wasps operation unusual financially?
- why is something close that brings it all down and what is it?
- what is it that brings wasps down?
So prove your points. I enjoy an informed discussion just ask NW or fp
Finally about 10 minutes...... but like I said finances are my expertise and I know where and what to look for...... and no thanks Mrs OSB is more than enough for me
Knew I was right! Great bit of work.
20% down on gates and stacks of free tickets included in those attendances.
Just had a look at the fixtures for this season vs last season in terms of corresponding fixtures
Wasps home attendance's (corresponding fixture last season) [+/-% crowd]
Sale 12,108 (12329)
Quins 12,806 (16,004)
Bath 15,488 (26,292)
Newcastle 16,073 (15, 033)
Leicester 22,148 ( 27,930)
Total 78,623 (97,588) -18965 (-20%)
Ave 15,724 (19,516)
Down 20% on last season.
Will be interesting to see the next set of accounts. I'll be surprised if they are as healthy as the last set.
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I'd agree, and you'd assume it was always in their plan to hand out masses of free tickets.Got to look at the whole picture and people focussing on the amount of free tickets available without having a clue about take up and saying Wasps are in terminal trouble seems on the data available a nonsense to me.
Agreed.I'd agree, and you'd assume it was always in their plan to hand out masses of free tickets.
Of course, they also use it in their marketing to show how popular the Wasps move has been, and I think it's worth pointing out it's only popular in the same way the Formula Renault series was at Silverstone, in terms of you're handing somebody a free ticket rather than them actively *wanting* to go.
So (as with just about everything Wasps!) I'd say it's just not possible to say if the plan is working out for them yet or not.
Just had a look at the fixtures for this season vs last season in terms of corresponding fixtures
Wasps home attendance's (corresponding fixture last season) [+/-% crowd]
Sale 12,108 (12329) [-2.3%]
Quins 12,806 (16,004)[-20%]
Bath 15,488 (26,292) [-41.1%]
Newcastle 16,073 (15, 033) [+7%]
Leicester 22,148 ( 27,930) [-20.7%]
Total 78,623 (97,588) [-18965 (-20%)]
Ave 15,724 (19,516)
Down 20% on last season.
Will be interesting to see the next set of accounts. I'll be surprised if they are as healthy as the last set.
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Likewise you can't compare last 6 months to the corresponding period last season and drawer any valid conclusions. We're literally talking 5-6 games and different teams, ticket promotions, etc. Christmas gates are always higher, so I imagine this seasons Xmas fixture against Gloucester will be significantly higher than last seasons 15,700.You cannot compare the gates of corresponding fixtures and draw any meaningful conclusions.
Lots of factors come in to play that may affect the overall attendances on a particular day, these same factors apply equally to football as they do rugby.
The weather.
What else is on that day.
The significance of the game.
This years price increases.
Early season games.
The day of the week it's played.
Examples:
The Bath game last year, that was on Christmas Eve and included a firework display after the game.
Winning the Leicester game last year meant the team would go top of the league.
The Newcastle game this year was on the same day as an England international game.
I get all that OSB and I understand why you're comparing time periods but that's not comparing like for like.
For example last season vs bristol is in that 6 month window (12,250), whilst the biggest fixture of the season Leicester (22k) is in this 6 month window (it was was in April last season IIRC) - that makes a big difference, especially as they would have probably given a fair few free tickets or offers for the Bristol game, whereas Leicester probably wouldn't have had any offer and limited freebies. (Yes apologies, it was the wrong quins fixture, it was c15k down by about 700).
Not saying they are in trouble and I get exactly why they are giving away tickets and I'm not saying they are in trouble, but like us when we moved into the Ricoh, their is a steady drop off in attendance, whether that's paying customers or freebies, but I would say giving up to 13k free tickets suggests there are concerns creeping in. Don't forget their catchment is a lot bigger, they are actively trying to recruit from Birmingham, solihull, and the wider midlands area - and for a lot of the games they're getting less than we were getting on occasions in the 3rd tier of English football. We know that the lower thr crowds the worse the atmosphere and match day experience so that will impact on them too.
I don't think they will fail, but I do feel they will be uncomfortable and all may not be hunky dory.
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