Rebecca Long-Bailey sacked (1 Viewer)

[chiefdave]

Because there’s no reason to suggest the US police learned it from the Israelis

Had a quick google to see if there is any truth to it and this came up from Amnesty which seems to suggest US police receive training from Israeli forces:

When the U.S. Department of Justice published a report Aug. 10 that documented “widespread constitutional violations, discriminatory enforcement, and culture of retaliation” within the Baltimore Police Department (BPD), there was rightly a general reaction of outrage.

But what hasn’t received as much attention is where Baltimore police received training on crowd control, use of force and surveillance: Israel’s national police, military and intelligence services.

Baltimore law enforcement officials, along with hundreds of others from Florida, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, California, Arizona, Connecticut, New York, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Georgia, Washington state as well as the DC Capitol police have all traveled to Israel for training. Thousands of others have received training from Israeli officials here in the U.S.

Where Do Many Police Departments Train? In Israel

 

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[Nick]

Another fucking rabbit hole looking up Krav Maga and US police. Judging by some of the videos of the brutality, it's safe to say some of them have trained in it (or think they have and are trying it on people).

 

[Skybluefaz]

It still doesn't explain why that line in the article is offensive to Jewish people?

I mean, the Israeli special forces have invented a martial arts discipline that police can learn. It's not really a conspiracy theory to say that police may have learnt (or tried to) learn it.

To then try to link it that the jews were training up the police to kill black people is more batshit mental.

With added context if you are unaware of the links between Labour and antisemitism I think you should begin to see why she was sacked. If you take the context away from the white lives matter plane, the guy has done nothing wrong. Same here.

 

[shmmeee]

Had a quick google to see if there is any truth to it and this came up from Amnesty which seems to suggest US police receive training from Israeli forces:

Where Do Many Police Departments Train? In Israel

But as I posted they deny teaching the knee on neck move.

I’m already far deeper into this than I care to be TBH. Just trying to provide some context.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Depends on your point of view. I’m not sure 0.07% of your members classes as institutional.

What you on about institutional?

 

[Nick]

With added context if you are unaware of the links between Labour and antisemitism I think you should begin to see why she was sacked. If you take the context away from the white lives matter plane, the guy has done nothing wrong. Same here.

Even with the links, where is the offensiveness at the suggestion?

I mean, Israeli forces have their own martial art that they do train police in. It's not exactly saying the jews have mindwashed the police to go and kill black people, is it?

 

[chiefdave]

Seems to me he wanted her out, and found a reason, weak as it is, to do it.

Hope you're not suggesting theirs an ulterior motive for Starmer sacking the Corbyn supporting Long-Bailey but promoting the anti-Corbyn Reeves?

 

[Nick]

But as I posted they deny teaching the knee on neck move.

I’m already far deeper into this than I care to be TBH. Just trying to provide some context.

2 second google shows Krav Maga training doing that move.

Not sure that it is really a conspiracy to suggest that or it's anti semetic.

Surely inventing something as being anti semetic that isn't to sack somebody is just as bad as being anti semetic?

Fucking hell. Im going back to watching Israeli forces fucking people up on youtube.

 

[chiefdave]

But as I posted they deny teaching the knee on neck move.

It appears that the denial may have been added after Long-Bailey was sacked but that's just from twitter and I'm struggling to trace the origin of that claim to verify. There's certainly plenty of pictorial evidence being thrown out on social media to establish it is a tactic used by Israeli forces. Certainly think there's at least an element of doubt about the denial.

 

[skybluetony176]

Strong leadership. Unlike Boris lad who couldn’t get permission from the man he needed to sack to sack him after apparently taking his family for a death drive to test his eyes. The difference is so glaringly obvious even Dominic Cummings can see it while recovering from Covid. Apparently.

 

[Ian1779]

What you on about institutional?

The claim was that Labour was institutionally racist however complaints made to the General Secretary accounted for 0.07% of the membership in total.

Which was less than the same figure for AS and Islamaphobia in the Conservative Party.

 

[shmmeee]

2 second google shows Krav Maga training doing that move.

Not sure that it is really a conspiracy to suggest that or it's anti semetic.

Surely inventing something as being anti semetic that isn't to sack somebody is just as bad as being anti semetic?

Fucking hell. Im going back to watching Israeli forces fucking people up on youtube.

OK I really don’t care one way or another and this is me on auto argue so gonna leave it after this (maybe), but I’m guessing what they teach police isn’t straight up Krav Maga but some subset used for policing specifically. And in that they don’t say “if you’re arresting someone stick your knee on their neck”.

 

[shmmeee]

It appears that the denial may have been added after Long-Bailey was sacked but that's just from twitter and I'm struggling to trace the origin of that claim to verify. There's certainly plenty of pictorial evidence being thrown out on social media to establish it is a tactic used by Israeli forces. Certainly think there's at least an element of doubt about the denial.

That article was from 10th June. I don’t think there’s a conspiracy here. Just a twitchy new leader, a careless SC member, and a whole load of disingenuous outrage on all sides.

 

[Nick]

OK I really don’t care one way or another and this is me on auto argue so gonna leave it after this (maybe), but I’m guessing what they teach police isn’t straight up Krav Maga but some subset used for policing specifically. And in that they don’t say “if you’re arresting someone stick your knee on their neck”.

No I know you aren't arguing, I'm just still trying to find out how it's offensive to Jewish people.

People in the thread are saying strong leadership and stuff but why is it offensive? If he's made up a reason to sack somebody he seems a bit of a pussy.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

The Labour Party are suffering from an over-reaction to the theory that any criticism of the Israeli state or its policies (e.g. in its atrocious actions towards Palestine, in contravention of myriad UN Security Council resolutions) is anti-Semitic.
It isn't - it's anti-Israeli.
I have nothing against any person of Jewish faith (or any other, for the record), individually or collectively. But i will not support the Israeli economy by buying any of their produce or by spending my money by going there.

But i agree it is nonsense to suggest that the Israeli special forces deliberately and directly trained the US police in their dubious control and restraint techniques to murder George Floyd. They probably got it off the internet the same as Nick did.
But even if they did train them, it still isn't anti-Semitic - it's anti-Israeli.

(sorry - too many buts!)

 

[Skybluefaz]

The claim was that Labour was institutionally racist however complaints made to the General Secretary accounted for 0.07% of the membership in total.

Which was less than the same figure for AS and Islamaphobia in the Conservative Party.

I'm not suggesting that it was institutional. Starmer cannot appear to be weak on it though because of public perception.

 

[Nick]

Called this when I saw the tweet this morning then the hasty apology tweet a couple of hours later.

Shared an article where it repeated the conspiracy theory that Israel trained the cops who killed George Floyd, proper bat shit stuff that shouldn’t have made it into a national newspaper in the first place.

But you said it was a bat shit conspiracy? What's the issue with that being in a national newspaper?

This is why politics confuses me, are people just seeing it being labelled as offensive and going with it?

 

[Nick]

I'm not suggesting that it was institutional. Starmer cannot appear to be weak on it though because of public perception.

But why is it offensive to Jews for fuck sake?

Put me out my misery

 

[Ian1779]

I'm not suggesting that it was institutional. Starmer cannot appear to be weak on it though because of public perception.

Of which I agree - sorry I think I misunderstood your point.

There is a whole other discussion over the validity of the AS ‘crisis’ - save that for the thread when the EHRC report comes out.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

If he didn't want her in the SC, why did he appoint her and not Reeves in the first place?

 

[shmmeee]

But you said it was a bat shit conspiracy? What's the issue with that being in a national newspaper?

This is why politics confuses me, are people just seeing it being labelled as offensive and going with it?

Having read up more in this thread than before I’ll happily modify that. I thought the conspiracy was that those specific cops were trained to kill George Floyd, as opposed to “they learned Krav Maga” which is what it seems.

I think you’re right that it’s not particularly offensive in that context.

 

[Nick]

Having read up more in this thread than before I’ll happily modify that. I thought the conspiracy was that those specific cops were trained to kill George Floyd, as opposed to “they learned Krav Maga” which is what it seems.

I think you’re right that it’s not particularly offensive in that context.

This is why it's all not all bad being an annoying think c**t like me to figure things out.

Would be funny if somebody asked the leader to explain why it was offensive. Maybe Boris before busting out some krav maga in the commons

 

[Ian1779]

If he didn't want her in the SC, why did he appoint her and not Reeves in the first place?

Reeves... she’s got a big thing for austerity. Maybe not a good look for Labour....

 

[David O'Day]

Not a RLB fan but i'm uncomfortable which this.

I don't think what Maxine Peake said was anti-semitic and sometimes I do worry that we cheapen the very real need to tackle AS in the Labour Party and in wider society by classifying legitimate criticism of Israel and the state of Israels actions as AS.

 

[hill83]

Have I piled in too early saying good then? Any Jewish people on?

 

[David O'Day]

Reeves... she’s got a big thing for austerity. Maybe not a good look for Labour....

Since when? she was shadow chief sec and played a large part in Labours economic policies in the Miliband years that were very scandi.

 

[Nick]

The quote is in the article. So many people are jumping on saying it's anti semetic. Have they looked?

 

[chiefdave]

That article was from 10th June. I don’t think there’s a conspiracy here. Just a twitchy new leader, a careless SC member, and a whole load of disingenuous outrage on all sides.

An edit has been made this afternoon it seems. The original was:

"Though a spokesperson from the Israeli police has denied this, a 2016 Amnesty International report said that hundreds of law enforcement officials had traveled to Israel for training."

The new version is:

"A spokesperson for the Israeli police has denied this, stating that “there is no tactic or protocol that calls to put pressure on the neck or airway”."

No longer any mention of the Amnesty report.

 

[clint van damme]

Hope you're not suggesting theirs an ulterior motive for Starmer sacking the Corbyn supporting Long-Bailey but promoting the anti-Corbyn Reeves?

Reeves who has had her own antisemitic controversy but that seems to be conveniently ignored.

 

[Nick]

Have a look at how many people are going on about it being offensive to Jewish people and it's a conspiracy? Journalists too.

No attempt to even look to see why is offensive, just repeating things.

 

[Ian1779]

Since when? she was shadow chief sec and played a large part in Labours economic policies in the Miliband years that were very scandi.

Did you not see the infamous article where she said ‘Labour would have cut deeper than the Tories’ re: Austerity

If we are talking about how things look then sticking her as a front line shadow cabinet is not good for an anti-austerity party (if that’s what we even are anymore)

 

[shmmeee]

Did you not see the infamous article where she said ‘Labour would have cut deeper than the Tories’ re: Austerity

If we are talking about how things look then sticking her as a front line shadow cabinet is not good for an anti-austerity party (if that’s what we even are anymore)

She didn’t say that. What she said was:



"Nobody should be under any illusions that they are going to be able to live a life on benefits under a Labour government," she said. "If you can work you should be working, and under our compulsory jobs guarantee if you refuse that job you forgo your benefits, and that is really important."

She added: "It is not an either/or question. We would be tougher [than the Conservatives]. If they don't take it [the offer of a job] they will forfeit their benefit. But there will also be the opportunities there under a Labour government.


There’s no reason to think Labour are currently pro austerity either.

 

[Skybluefaz]

But why is it offensive to Jews for fuck sake?

Put me out my misery

In itself it may very well not be, same as the white lives matter plane isn't. If Starmer had not dealt with this though when Long-Bailey retweets an article that directly links Israel to the killing of George Floyd it would be massively damaging to what he is trying to achieve. That is why I think it is good leadership. Done.

 

[shmmeee]

Reeves who has had her own antisemitic controversy but that seems to be conveniently ignored.

That was even weaker. It was Nancy Whatsherface the first woman MP to take her seat she was celebrating. Who was an antisemite but hardly current or clear cut considering the prevailing views at the time.

 

[Ian1779]

She didn’t say that. What she said was:



"Nobody should be under any illusions that they are going to be able to live a life on benefits under a Labour government," she said. "If you can work you should be working, and under our compulsory jobs guarantee if you refuse that job you forgo your benefits, and that is really important."

She added: "It is not an either/or question. We would be tougher [than the Conservatives]. If they don't take it [the offer of a job] they will forfeit their benefit. But there will also be the opportunities there under a Labour government.


There’s no reason to think Labour are currently pro austerity either.

Really? Their policy on supporting renters during lockdown was very poor.

EDIT: I’m not actually suggesting they are pro -austerity but I certainly don’t want to see us drift back to being ambivalent about it.