Rebecca Long-Bailey sacked (2 Viewers)

[Ian1779]

She didn’t say that. What she said was:



"Nobody should be under any illusions that they are going to be able to live a life on benefits under a Labour government," she said. "If you can work you should be working, and under our compulsory jobs guarantee if you refuse that job you forgo your benefits, and that is really important."

She added: "It is not an either/or question. We would be tougher [than the Conservatives]. If they don't take it [the offer of a job] they will forfeit their benefit. But there will also be the opportunities there under a Labour government.


There’s no reason to think Labour are currently pro austerity either.

Really? Their policy on supporting renters during lockdown was very poor.

EDIT: I’m not actually suggesting they are pro -austerity but I certainly don’t want to see us drift back to being ambivalent about it.

 

---

[shmmeee]

Really? Their policy on supporting renters during lockdown was very poor.

It was what could be done legally without a time consuming legislature change and if that’s the best evidence you have for them being pro austerity it’s pretty weak. Starmer is on the left of the party, stop fighting shadows.

 

[Nick]

In itself it may very well not be, same as the white lives matter plane isn't. If Starmer had not dealt with this though when Long-Bailey retweets an article that directly links Israel to the killing of George Floyd it would be massively damaging to what he is trying to achieve. That is why I think it is good leadership. Done.

I mean have you looked at what was said in the article and looked to see the facts about it before deciding it's good leadership?

Only have to look at social media and people are saying its disgusting because they have been told it's an anti semetic conspiracy but I don't they even know why its anti semetic.

Jews seem to be confused as me.

Again, how does the comment in the article offend Jewish people?

 

[Ian1779]

It was what could be done legally without a time consuming legislature change and if that’s the best evidence you have for them being pro austerity it’s pretty weak. Starmer is on the left of the party, stop fighting shadows.

See above

 

[shmmeee]

I mean have you looked at what was said in the article and looked to see the facts about it before deciding it's good leadership?

Only have to look at social media and people are saying its disgusting because they have been told it's an anti semetic conspiracy.

Jews seem to be confused as me.

Again, how does the comment in the article offend Jewish people?

It’s good politics even if it’s not right...

 

[Nick]

Is this where a politics argument starts but nobody can actually answer why its offensive and prove its offensive?

 

[shmmeee]

See above

If Labour start promising to roll back the state, especially with the current economic crisis, I’ll be right with you against them. But I’ve seen no hints that’s likely.

 

[Nick]

It’s good politics even if it’s not right...

Sounds like a pussy to me, by making up something is anti semetic and bringing Jewish people into it. He's going to actually offend Jewish people because he's using them as an excuse to get rid.

Again, that's using logic and facts rather than any political allegiance.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Radio news earlier stated she was sacked because she refused to delete....not for the retweet itself.

.....personally I'd sack anybody just for being on twitter....its wall to wall cunts and it's like digital litter.....folk even post tweets all over this place now too.

Kill Twitter.

 

[shmmeee]

Is this where a politics argument starts but nobody can actually answer why its offensive and prove its offensive?

Politics is about image not facts.

Offence is taken not given, some people are offended by it, or pretending to be. You might think their reasoning is weak, and I’d agree, but here we are.

We know the media and opposition and major Jewish groups will use it so you’ve got to get rid.

What’s offensive about a picture of a house with an England flag on it? Still got Thornberry sacked because the image was poor considering Labours issues with the patriotic working classes. Same for Jews here.

 

[Nick]

Politics is about image not facts.

Offence is taken not given, some people are offended by it, or pretending to be. You might think their reasoning is weak, and I’d agree, but here we are.

Yeah but the people pretending to be don't seem to know why they are.

Jewish people are actually more offended by them being dragged into it.

This is my issue about bandwagons and the media, nobody (including the media) really stops to check if the article was offensive or not.

 

[shmmeee]

Radio news earlier stated she was sacked because she refused to delete....not for the retweet itself.

.....personally I'd sack anybody just for being on twitter....its wall to wall cunts and it's like digital litter.....folk even post tweets all over this place now too.

Kill Twitter.

No MP should be on Twitter

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah but the people pretending to be don't seem to know why they are.

Jewish people are actually more offended by them being dragged into it.

This is my issue about bandwagons and the media, nobody (including the media) really stops to check if the article was offensive or not.

Jewish people, especially the organisations tend to be quite conservative and happy to beat Labour with any stick handy TBH.

 

[Nick]

I mean does this guy know why retweeting that article was offensive or bullying or is he just saying it because somebody else says it is offensive?

I'm glad I don't support a political party, they are all snidey little pricks.

 

[Nick]

Jewish people, especially the organisations tend to be quite conservative and happy to beat Labour with any stick handy TBH.

But it's not actually offensive, nobody can explain how it's offensive.

It's a group of middle aged white posh cunts deciding on everybody else's behalf. Much the same as some of the BLM stuff.

He clearly didn't have the bottle to get rid so thought up a reason without looking into it and will end up looking silly.

 

[Ian1779]

If Labour start promising to roll back the state, especially with the current economic crisis, I’ll be right with you against them. But I’ve seen no hints that’s likely.

My concern is that we see something like today, where he acted decisively (and probably correctly despite it being very flimsy) and yet on other things him and his shadow cabinet haven’t. Have I missed him calling for Jenrick to go - where the Daily Mail are rampant on it? Nandy not knowing if Trump was racist...

Some is good, and some is just baffling... this is why I worry.

 

[clint van damme]

That was even weaker. It was Nancy Whatsherface the first woman MP to take her seat she was celebrating. Who was an antisemite but hardly current or clear cut considering the prevailing views at the time.

we've been over this before, I don't disagree, but when you make decisions like this then you really need to make sure you're squeaky clean.
If it had been a Corbynite eulogising about Nancy Astor they'd have got rinsed. This is a very poor decision from Starmer. He's either implementing a zero tolerance on antisemitism or he's not.

This looks like it's zero tolerance for the left of the party but some leeway if you're a centrist.

 

[shmmeee]

But it's not actually offensive, nobody can explain how it's offensive.

It's a group of middle aged white posh cunts deciding on everybody else's behalf. Much the same as some of the BLM stuff.

He clearly didn't have the bottle to get rid so thought up a reason without looking into it and will end up looking silly.

Yeah and it’s used both ways, see sections of the Muslim community with the Tories. Race and identity in general have become a massive political football and no one knows how to deal with accusations because there’s such a fuzzy fine line between offensive and not.

What do you do if someone calls you racist? You can say you’re not but it’s just a thought in your head and you can’t prove that. So you gotta go on a course or make a public apology or lose your job or whatever because we’ve decided mob justice is a thing now.

The national conversation is fucked.

 

[clint van damme]

Radio news earlier stated she was sacked because she refused to delete....not for the retweet itself.

.....personally I'd sack anybody just for being on twitter....its wall to wall cunts and it's like digital litter.....folk even post tweets all over this place now too.

Kill Twitter.

you should be ashamed of yourself young man!

 

[Nick]

Yeah and it’s used both ways, see sections of the Muslim community with the Tories. Race and identity in general have become a massive political football and no one knows how to deal with accusations because there’s such a fuzzy fine line between offensive and not.

What do you do if someone calls you racist? You can say you’re not but it’s just a thought in your head and you can’t prove that. So you gotta go on a course or make a public apology or lose your job or whatever because we’ve decided mob justice is a thing now.

The national conversation is fucked.

I mean, it's been implied in the other thread im racist for trying to understand and asking questions about particular things.

Much like I am trying to do in this thread.

Anybody who does a Google can prove that the comment isn't a crazy conspiracy like you first thought. In this case it's really not hard to prove.

If we are getting to the point somebody can just decide something is racist or anti semetic when it actually isn't. It's a very worrying time.

 

[Grendel]

Seems to me he wanted her out, and found a reason, weak as it is, to do it.

that’s about the strength of it

 

[shmmeee]

we've been over this before, I don't disagree, but when you make decisions like this then you really need to make sure you're squeaky clean.
If it had been a Corbynite eulogising about Nancy Astor they'd have got rinsed. This is a very poor decision from Starmer. He's either implementing a zero tolerance on antisemitism or he's not.

This looks like it's zero tolerance for the left of the party but some leeway if you're a centrist.

We have, and I’m so glad Labour is back on the menu, we’ve missed a good row with only race, Brexit and Corona to talk about.

Nancy Astor was widely praised across the spectrum and in the media despite her historic views. You gotta read the room, you do get less latitude when you’re from the wing of the party prone to this stuff too, or you hang around with anti semites.

The Reeves AS thing always struck me as an attempt to deflect from issues in the left.

When you’re under the microscope throwing accusations back doesn’t help IMO. Maybe Reeves is an antisemite (I doubt it) but unfortunately this isn’t the time or the right people to make that accusation.

 

[Nick]

that’s about the strength of it

So why aren't they finding decent reasons? At least do a proper job.

Anybody can disprove his reason within minutes. Why not something she can't disprove.

Say she fucks dogs or something, how can she disprove that?

Guess he just relies on the politics robots to believe it and repeat it without asking any questions.

 

[shmmeee]

that’s about the strength of it

As if you wouldn’t have been on here crying racism if he hadn’t sacked her.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

you should be ashamed of yourself young man!

Appreciate the "young man" tag mate....

But don't try and shame me cos I believe twitter is a shitfest.....it does way more harm than good and you know it

 

[Nick]

This this c**t knows why its offensive?

 

[stupot07]

Let's be clear, shes been sacked as a shadow cabinet minister, she hasn't been sacked as an mp.

I can't see much wrong with the article but then I'm not Jewish so I dont understand how this would be viewed by them. But it is at least decisive action, and sends a clear message that anti-semitism wont be tolerated.

You can bet your house on that had Starmer not taken this action Boris and the Tories and the rightwing press would have been all over this. At the moment the only barb Boris has about starmer is that hes a lawyer by background.

She can count herself unlucky, but it doesn't mean she wont be back in the shadow cabinet in the future.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[shmmeee]

I mean, it's been implied in the other thread im racist for trying to understand and asking questions about particular things.

Much like I am trying to do in this thread.

Anybody who does a Google can prove that the comment isn't a crazy conspiracy like you first thought. In this case it's really not hard to prove.

If we are getting to the point somebody can just decide something is racist or anti semetic when it actually isn't. It's a very worrying time.

But you say something isn’t racist, who are you to make that judgement? Who is anyone? Do we just go with the representatives of each group? What stops those positions being captures by a fringe ideology? Do we go with the overall majority? But what about minority groups being abused by the majority?

And how racist is racist? It’s like sexual assault and a whole load of other things, one end of the scale is different to the others but we treat them all the same.

I’m not sure anyone’s got the answers right yet.

 

[clint van damme]

We have, and I’m so glad Labour is back on the menu, we’ve missed a good row with only race, Brexit and Corona to talk about.

Nancy Astor was widely praised across the spectrum and in the media despite her historic views. You gotta read the room, you do get less latitude when you’re from the wing of the party prone to this stuff too, or you hang around with anti semites.

The Reeves AS thing always struck me as an attempt to deflect from issues in the left.

When you’re under the microscope throwing accusations back doesn’t help IMO. Maybe Reeves is an antisemite (I doubt it) but unfortunately this isn’t the time or the right people to make that accusation.

I don't think Reeves is an antisemite, and I fully understand why she attended the Nancy Astor tribute.
But you can't give her that leeway and then sack someone for retweeting that interview with Maxine Peak, it's just not consistent.

 

[Grendel]

As if you wouldn’t have been on here crying racism if he hadn’t sacked her.

Who me? Never

 

[Nick]

But you say something isn’t racist, who are you to make that judgement? Who is anyone? Do we just go with the representatives of each group? What stops those positions being captures by a fringe ideology? Do we go with the overall majority? But what about minority groups being abused by the majority?

And how racist is racist? It’s like sexual assault and a whole load of other things, one end of the scale is different to the others but we treat them all the same.

I’m not sure anyone’s got the answers right yet.

I mean I could go and stand in court if it was an unfair dismissal case and ask questions about this particular situation and I'm thick as fuck.

You would think to get rid because of anti semetic stuff you would have to prove its anti semetic.

I mean, you would at least check if it was an anti semetic conspiracy theory before labelling it one wouldn't you? At least I can see where you get your love of labelling things conspiracy theory without checking.

If I said people in Jamaica smoke weed and my boss sacked me for racism. I'd be rubbing my hands together at the unfair dismissal claim coming my way.

 

[Nick]

Let's be clear, shes been sacked as a shadow cabinet minister, she hasn't been sacked as an mp.

I can't see much wrong with the article but then I'm not Jewish so I dont understand how this would be viewed by them. But it is at least decisive action, and sends a clear message that anti-semitism wont be tolerated.

You can bet your house on that had Starmer not taken this action Boris and the Tories and the rightwing press would have been all over this. At the moment the only barb Boris has about starmer is that hes a lawyer by background.

She can count herself unlucky, but it doesn't mean she wont be back in the shadow cabinet in the future.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Yeah but how's it anti semetic? If he's a lawyer then it makes him look even more silly.

 

[clint van damme]

Appreciate the "young man" tag mate....

But don't try and shame me cos I believe twitter is a shitfest.....it does way more harm than good and you know it

it depends who you follow, I've got discerning tastes.

 

[Grendel]

Yeah but how's it anti semetic? If he's a lawyer then it makes him look even more silly.

It’s a stupid think to retweet but if it was anyone but her she’s have kept her job - Starmer never wanted her around anyway

 

[Nick]

It’s a stupid think to retweet but if it was anyone but her she’s have kept her job - Starmer never wanted her around anyway

But why if it's not actually anti semetic?

It's like me going to somebodies employer saying they were racist against me for being Chinese and them sacking them without checking.