Ref again (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Ive said before a separate timekeeper linked to the clock on the big screen we pay enough for the game we want to see more of it not some little twat ref deciding he’s had enough at three minutes.
Shannerz
Well-Known Member
Didn't watch or pay any attention to the World Cup, but that tech's exactly what I hate about technology use for offsides.Was used in the World Cup.
Semi-automated offside: What is it and how does it work? - BBC Sport
How does the semi-automated offside system work?www.bbc.com
Nick
Administrator
Was even worse against Derby.
Pretty sure that was that Sam Allison, their second goal was about 4 feet out of play.
We were shit though, it's just refs don't help.
Sky Blue Goblin
Well-Known Member
I don’t man, unless the laws changed to match what Wenger wanted, I think I’d rather have it be as consistent as it can be especially with us playing such a high line atm.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Yeah ideal world we’d have a sensible offside rule. But as it is I’d rather it was accurate. Offside is the one area I’d be wary just because of that. Easier to go back to sensible rules that the Lino can judge.
Shannerz
Well-Known Member
It's not inconsistency with offside, though, as it's not subjective. It's ability to judge it.
I can accept a degree of leeway with offside.
Sky Blue Goblin
Well-Known Member
A degree is fine but it just seems like there’s an offside call constantly missed or incorrectly given. Wonder what the stats are, as probably just how it feels
Nuskyblue
Well-Known Member
I get that offside is not subjective, football is however played by human not robots so I think a bit of flex in the system is needed.
IMO if it takes more than 10 seconds to decide offside/onside the original decision should stand.
Shannerz
Well-Known Member
I think if you need lines on the pitch to tell then it should be original decision.
Your way would probably work better.
Ricketts
Well-Known Member
When I did my referees course they said if in doubt flag it offside. If you don’t flag it offside and they score you get all sorts of crap. Flag it offside before it gets contentious.
I didn’t agree and said the benefit of doubt is supposed to be with the attacker, I didn’t rise very far up the promotion ladder going against their cosy little union.
Warwickhunt
Well-Known Member
What's the point the Referee will always make the decision, the linesman against Burnley was adamant that it was a corner to city remember he was about 10 foot away, the Referee said its not and told the goalkeeper to playing but the linesman still kept flagging for a corner and still the Referee said no! The ref was 25 yards away for God Sake and they wonder why they get so much shit. As I said to the Misses being a Ref now gives you loads of ways to affect the outcome of games
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Offside is subjective. When was the ball played? Is a player interfering/gaining an advantage? etc. etc.
Everything about football is subjective & emotional, that's what makes it so good & so popular. VAR trying to sanitise it has made it infinitely worse.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
This is the key for me.
You have 22 grown men out on the pitch actively cheating, pure & simple. 22 men all out to con 1 referee. We are then apoplectic when a referee falls for it if it goes against us, but mostly silent or having a laugh about it if it's to our advantage. Until players are properly punished for cheating, rather than rewarded for it like Burnley, it will never end.
Adge
Well-Known Member
Yep-that’s fair. I’m sure you are aware that I also am an assessor and should be batting for the local FA’s I’m associated with. It has happened to me in years gone by and will continue unfortunately that performances on the pitch will only count for so much. If you don’t do the other side of things (politics etc) and attend the BBQ’s etc you will stall.
Perhaps Sam Allison and James Bell are partial to a hot dog/burger now and again……….
Adge
Well-Known Member
You don’t have to go back too far(if you wish to trawl through the posts) to find posts that said Sam Allison was the best Referee we had in ages when he was new on the scene which isn’t very long ago.
Nick
Administrator
The thing is, yeah, I love it when Wilson used to lie down on the ball in the last minute. However, if it became consistent in that things got punished, then it's part of the game. My issue is when you have a ref clearly not being consistent.
By all means be strict, petty, play right onto the rules and make sure every kick is taken from the right place. Do it for both teams and it's fair enough.
Refs cant just decide to start doing shit sometimes but not others, it's the same as the whole "going off at the nearest point" . Start making things actual rules and apply them properly and consistently.
Paterson took his shirt off to celebrate in the heat of the moment, it's a yellow card. Simple as that, regardless of who he plays for. Make things as clear cut as that.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I'm a big advocate of paying them more and then expecting incredible quality out of them. £50k isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things and the abuse they get the only people willing to take it up are there because they want to make it about themselves - as Clattenburg outright said.
I'd do something like £500k split between 38 games for PL refs and then stagger that down through the divisions. Allow foreign refs to come and chase the bag too and you end up with the best quality in the world in England.
Now you've got the best and they're well paid you introduce proper monitoring and performance reviews as well as interviews so they can justify themselves and add some clarity. A panel sit and review game footage and match reports from officials and clubs and grade the ref for performance. Staff these with people that have passed an intense FA course on the rule book but never actually refereed so they don't have their mates backs.
Any ref that has a particularly bad game or consistently average-poor grades get relegated to the league below where the pay is, for example, £200k. This isn't a temporary punishment as another high rated ref is then promoted to take their place and the only way of going back up a league is to consistently post exceptional grades.
Add to this a function to properly discipline the players. I like your cheating board suggestion but also the go-ahead to simply card all the infractions they leave out for potential abuse along with captains only talking to them. A few weeks of madness would ensue and then they'd get the message and fall into line. Once the pros don't show dissent anymore and give managers the opportunity/require them to submit reports to the panel and you take a lot of steam out knowing everyone will be looked at. This trickles down to grassroots as kids stop emulating their heroes.
It needs a huge reform but it's run by ex refs now who are only interested in keeping the status quo.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
I think the madcap celebrations are part of the entertainment, unless they are in anyway abusive or disrespectful to opposition fans or players I don't see that there is a big problem.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Montgomery blackburn second yellow lol
Stoke winner the handball wow
Stoke winner the handball wow
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Really enjoyed this from the Bundesliga. Couldn’t work with any of our officials who give red cards to people with their backs turned but still, interesting perspective
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
One thing he does well and makes clear in the video is frequent communication with the players so they can’t be surprised when a card is shown and they understand the decision.
A lot of the refs I’ve seen in our games just come across as stand offish and abrupt
A lot of the refs I’ve seen in our games just come across as stand offish and abrupt
Fans don't want consistency, they want referees who agree with them. As fans we routinely lose our shit over the consistent application of rules we didn't even know existed (the ref giving the ball to Portsmouth's keeper last week).
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Which is exactly my point - consistent application of the rules isn't what fans want at all. They just want the refs to do what feels right to them in the moment.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter, those are the rules, and we just want refs to be consistent right?
The ref made a mistake, it was a bad one, we all got upset. See also: most players over the course of the season. It happens, the question is how you get over it (if you ever do).
I’m not defending the ref, I thought he was shit. What I don’t want is this mentality of “refs have to be CONSISTENT” which has led to this VAR shite where half the game and all of the post-match is spent micro-analysing decisions that no-one can agree on as if there’s a right answer every time.