Conversely Stu re your second paragraph it could be taken the opposite way too.
Resolution one way or another but definite we're either in or off.
Then the Naming rights issue can progress IMO.
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Rent (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter dongonzalos
- Start date
Resolution one way or another but definite we're either in or off.
Then the Naming rights issue can progress IMO.
Nick
Administrator
Unless they are part of the resolution.
hutch1972
Well-Known Member
They need us there full stop.
Why else do a u turn on the legal stance.
Unless sisu have dropped the court case and just forgot to tell us !!!
But is it just about a rent deal?
I believe it's about securing the foundation for a move to BPA. But CRFC want some sort of certainty that CCC accepts the plan and will work with CCRC/CRFC to make it happen. The club needs a short term deal at the Ricoh, but Wasps have abandoned the previous talks. And ideally the club want the fans (Trust) on board and supporting the move.
It's a complicated situation that is best resolved by all parties meeting around the table with a neutral mediator leading the talks.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
bloody hell, article 50 will be easier than that session
Yep true.
Who knows the reality but if the hiatus over where we are going to play continues to harm that progress and income to Wasps model I think we're nearer to the nitty gritty of what it's about.
Nick
Administrator
I think having some some of mediator or independent in it would help get that idea also.
Of course they can't force a rental deal to be signed, but they can certainly try to nudge it along and also get an idea on what's going on.
It would put a stop to Fisher coming out and saying "Wasps said this" and Wasps coming out and saying "SISU".
Eastwood is back. Anderson has gone. Wasps say they want CCFC there and are prepared to talk.
Most points from Anderson were agreed, so there is a framework for negotiations.
Where is the dispute?
Nick
Administrator
The mediation is also to help prevent people from doing u turns and trying to play a pr game also....
Just because they suddenly woke up and decided that in fact the legal noise didn't matter, what happens if in a few weeks there is something else that stops talks which then does "need" a mediator. Otherwise it will just be U turns, Pr games from here onwards.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
makes perfect sense to me.
20 things we think we know....
1. CCFC, SISU, CRFC, WASPs, CCC + SB Trust have been invited to take part in the mediation.
2. Wasps didn't want to talk to CCFC due to outstanding legal's, but have changed their minds
3. Wasps haven't heard from anyone about mediation
4. MP confirmed he wrote to wasps about mediation
5. Wasps got the letter but didn't put it on the right persons desk
6. Wasps haven't heard from CCFC
7. CCFC have welcomed medication
8. CCFC want to talk to CRFC about moving to the Butts to get all year round access to non match day incomes
9. CRFC want to talk to CCFC
10. CRFC developing Butts to give them (not ccfc) access to year round non match day incomes
11. CCC will be doing all they can to help CCFC stay in Coventry
12. TF is still looking for a site for a new stadium
13. The Trust still haven't been told why the club shop ran out of pin badges before the Wembley final
14. The Welsh and Irish CCFC fans did make it to Wembley in the end
15. Wasps had 30,000+ at Ricoh last week, which was great success
16. Wasps gave away nearly all of those tickets
17. Mark Robins will be given a top 8 budget for next season
18. JR2 has gone very quiet
19. Lee Burge is staying
20. Michael Byng still hasn't sorted out his email issues
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
Why would a mediator assist in negotiations to get CCFC a fair deal, it would be SISUs job
To negotiate any deal, a mediator's job would be to get us to the point where both parties
Are willing to get round a table and negotiate the deal.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So. Any news from the club or SISU as to wether they'll accept Wasps invitation to talk? If not we'll need mediation.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You clearly don't understand how this works. It's amazing how SISU have ever done anything ever. According to some on here it's someone else's responsibility to do all the leg work, present it to SISU and then wait for them to say yes or no.
Nick
Administrator
A mediator won't really be able to force a deal either way.
They will be able to see if it's CCFC or Wasps taking the piss though. You would think that would also work with the FA / EFL if it came to wanting to move too.
I have to ask - why is CRFC and CCC invited to a mediation if it's just about a rent deal for CCFC?
Nick
Administrator
Would think it's about everything isn't it?
I just wish a "mediator" had been involved from the start and would have a pass to backhand anybody who tried to bullshit. It would have cut all of the PR games out and meant anybody who tried it would be called out instantly.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
because they have asked for it as part of when we move to the butts ?
Coventry City: Sky Blues chairman Tim Fisher outlines Butts Park Arena move
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
You **** I thought this was new big news , as mentioned in the other thread "big news today"
Yes. So it's not just about rent and we should gauge talks with Wasps from the point that the club wishes to move away within a foreseeable future.
Wasps want/need us at the Ricoh to help them secure a long term name sponsor and to keep the revenue and profit we generate for them. Their finances are not looking very good and they can hardly afford us leaving.
On the other hand, the Ricoh is too big for us unless we somehow returned to the PL and stayed there. We need to move away and BPA is apparently the most suitable option.
The mediator is usually called to settle disputes. At the moment there is no dispute. There may be all the things you mention during negotiations, but that is " normal ". It is only when there is deadlock or a breakdown that you need an outsider to mediate and get things going again.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
On the naming rights I made the point a long time ago that the club should either take a share of it for bringing exposure to the stadium much the same as how West Ham will be at the. Olympic stadium as part of their rental deal or even take the initiative and bring a naming rights deal in principle to the table as part of any rent negotiations. Joys supposed to be this business super woman, surely she has contacts in corporations who might be interested in naming rights.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
Realistically, how can having everyone in one room help ?
ie....
The mediator -
"so, CCFC / Wasps, we agree that Wasps are open to a rental agreement and CCFC want to leave Ricoh to move to Butts, so we are discussing a 1 year rental agreement"
As they are discussing this, you have the CFRC sitting there listening to the rental agreement and you will have Wasps sitting there listening to the rental agreement that CCFC and CRFC thrash out ?
How can that work ?
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
Perhaps we should go hard line and go straight to arbitration, that way they can talk for a bit
Then the arbitrator can make a final decision 'set in stone and bound by law" then SISU can
Sue the arbitrator.:emoji_smirk:
As I said, I don't believe it's just about rent. I think it's about an outline of the future of BPA/CRFC and CCFC. A roadmap, listing the steps needed to get from where everybody are today to the point where BPA is rebuilt/extended with CRFC and CCFC sharing the ground.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So have we asked for two sets of mediation? I can't see why CCC or CRFC need to be involved in any rental contract negotiations at the Ricoh, surely this is just a dispute between two private companies? And I can't see why Wasps would need to be involved in any planning dispute at the BPA.
If you were being sceptical you would say someone is trying to blur the lines if not separate mediation.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
For Wasps it is, the directors have a duty to secure the best income sources at best value for their business (as do CCFC). Is there a duty to help another company to move to other facilities and to give them favourable access short term to their (Wasps) own income sources at low cost/rent whilst they do it? No If it is short term there needs to be certainty not least for driving the solution
Have CCFC and their owners actually produced a plan & timeline to go forward? They have a stated preference and that in the short to medium term is to move from the Ricoh. If that is the case what is the incentive for (a) Wasps to be involved in planning & facilitating the move (b) offering a low rent and income access? If CCFC are going then it will be a commercial rate deal take it or leave it - and to get to BPA, should it ever happen, do CCFC have many other options short term? CCFC should have the plan by now and a clear direction
On the other hand if Wasps want them to stay why don't they bite the bullet and open talks with a direct formal approach to CCFC to negotiate a long term deal that suits both. If that was attractive to CCFC then the rest of the mediation/negotiation is not necessary. Wasps have the figures for the Arena to be able to know what they could offer.
Will mediation help, I respect the opinions on here that state that it will, personally in my opinion I am not sure it will, because the need (essentially financially) of one side or the other is not actually big enough yet. Try mediation if that is what all parties can be persuaded to do, I am not confident in it providing the results some expect
seems to me one of the first questions to put to CCFC & owners is do you want to stay at Ricoh medium to long term yes or no, followed if no by what is the plan & timeline to that
Similarly to Wasps do you want CCFC long term yes or no followed by if so what are you prepared to offer to make that a viable solution followed by are you prepared to offer a short term deal at similar or better to current?
It is well overdue that we all had certainty......................... fans, CCFC, CRFC, Wasps ............ and could then move on. But what we have is all sides trying to position themselves to put pressure on another party, actually solving little or anything
People tend understandably to look at the situations involved from CCFC perspective, I think you need to be more flexible & mobile in view points
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SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
People are calling for mediation to stop both parties spinning whatever they like. I thought we were all fed up of the spin, PR and lies? It won't guarantee a deal, no one expects it too. Do Wasps have a duty to assist CCFC? Well, the council assured us that them being here wouldn't be detrimental to CCFC. Therefore I would say yes they have a duty to talk and listen. I can understand why they are sceptical because of SISU agreeing deals and backtracking. That's where the mediator would come in. Maybe not an MP or the FL. Perhaps a financial expert?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I am not sure if the hospitality sell out is also exaggerated. I know JLR definitely had a fair number of people there, which I would suggest is free.
As for making a small fortune, not sure about that either due to the way the IEC is structured.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Seems odd to me. I don't care what anyone wants to call it but having someone independent in there who can verify things when it all falls apart again has no downside as far as I can see. If a deal gets done then fantastic. If it doesn't then someone has overseen things and can report accurately to the likes of the Football League. Will leave no room for ambiguity.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
By now a meeting should have been arranged. If not already happened.
You would have to pray that SISU wouldn't be daft enough to try the postering approach again. After the last two disastrous results from that approach.
You would have to pray that SISU wouldn't be daft enough to try the postering approach again. After the last two disastrous results from that approach.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
To be fair Inhdnt thought about needing evidence for the FL, though I'd be surprised to see them go against a member. Mostly it seems more for our morbid curiosity.
My main issue with it is it's inappropriate at the moment and it's the first step rather than just put an offer in. More hoops to jump through and reasons not to just act like grown ups and get a deal done or not.
Case in point, here we are discussing why Wasps didn't jump through an unnecessary hoop rather than why our owners have yet again let it get to the point where we don't know where we are playing in a years time.
We need a deal. I don't know or care whether Wasps need us, that's to discuss on their forum. From our end we aren't in a position to be making demands IMO. Short of keeping enough fans onside by pointing at Wasps and CCC until the mystery end game, I don't see the point.
Astute
Well-Known Member
People are desperate for them not to be involved?
More like some are desperate to twist the truth to put blame on others. They are all to blame.
They're all capable of negotiating. But what is needed is those who can make the decisions to be included. It is no good leaving it to Fisher. The last time he thought he got a good deal he got overruled by Joy. It should be Joy and whoever is in charge of Wasps. And both of them knowing that all details will be known when negotiations have concluded. If no agreement is made then maybe mediation could happen. But why should it be a councillor, MP or even MEP. Not done anything good for us so far.
Yes. Fisher has his own business and is "swamped". Joy says we need a new CEO. The job of the CEO is to deal with things like this. Tim only came back because things were not working under Andersen. Joy should let her new CEO suss it out - as Andersen did last time - and see if he can get further. Then Joy should either give him the ok to sign up, or come up herself, or hand it to Tim to bring it to a conclusion.
Basically we are waiting for the new CEOon SISU's side. Wasps have their man back and are ready to go - apparently.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Former MPs (there are no MPs at present, Parliament was dissolved) are not bothered about CCFC at the moment they have other things on their minds.
thekidfromstrettoncamp
Well-Known Member
I think todays events on other matters will have really pushed things along (I think not) by the way has any journalist asked Sisu sorry CCFC if they are ready to talk.