I have no idea if the FA has that many refs floating around that they're able to do this. But I don't imagine that a 'top' ref is much more likely to deliberately perform badly to help out a local team than a player is.
Whichever way you want to look at it, he shouldn't be given a game which involves a team local to him. Plenty of other games he could have been given which completely eliminates anyone drawing any conclusions either way.
I have no idea if the FA has that many refs floating around that they're able to do this. But I don't imagine that a 'top' ref is much more likely to deliberately perform badly to help out a local team than a player is.Surely there was a southern England ref who could have been appointed? To avoid any suggestion of bias.
It would have been a swap, not a need for an additional match official.I have no idea if the FA has that many refs floating around that they're able to do this. But I don't imagine that a 'top' ref is much more likely to deliberately perform badly to help out a local team than a player is.
I don't think it's necessarily that straightforward, but more than anything I think people just need to accept that when referees are crap it's almost always for non-nefarious reasons.It would have been a swap, not a need for an additional match official.
They really should have to say why such on field decisions were made. Some accountability would help.
Including David Coote?I don't think it's necessarily that straightforward, but more than anything I think people just need to accept that when referees are crap it's almost always for non-nefarious reasons.
Eccles after the 90 and Allen after the goal were very annoyed at the refPerhaps they had been told that dissent would result in a booking or a red card.
Given the apparent bias, they may have heeded that for a change.
Yes - even David Coote, the most famous of all compromised refs in the history of shit refs, didn't make decisions based on which local team he supported.Including David Coote?
How many proven cases have there been in this country in the last 25 years?The trouble with your assertion “almost always for non- nefarious reasons” is that, by definition, it means that sometimes they are crap for nefarious reasons.
But he was making decisions for nefarious reasons wasn’t he?Yes - even David Coote, the most famous of all compromised refs in the history of shit refs, didn't make decisions based on which local team he supported.
You tell me, was he? He wasn't removed from his job for anything he did during a game.But he was making decisions for nefarious reasons wasn’t he?
You didn’t limit the range or definitions of nefariousnes.
How often are complaints actually investigated beyond the “ referees decision is final?”How many proven cases have there been in this country in the last 25 years?
I’d laugh at that too depending on the gameMany year ago, a colleague recounted a conversation he had had with a crap ref, along these lines. No idea if it is apochryphal or not, but it amused me at the time.
Player - “ If I called you a c unit would you book me?”
Ref - “Yes”
Player - “If I thought you were a c unit would you book me?”
Ref - “No”
Player - “ In that case, I think you are a c-unit”
Supposedly no booking
to be fair it never got that far as the coke video came outYou tell me, was he? He wasn't removed from his job for anything he did during a game.
"To be fair" there's no proof that Coote was doing anything other than mouthing off in private about a known douchebag who had given him shit over a contentious decision.to be fair it never got that far as the coke video came out
it was likely they'd start to question decisions he gave against liverpool and look into them in further detail
The two decisions were the foul not given for the shoulder in the back at one end and two seconds later decision given spurs wayHow often are complaints actually investigated beyond the “ referees decision is final?”
My problem is that I am a cynical, suspicious bastard who finds it very difficult to understand why identical fouls within 5 minutes of each other are given to one team but not the other.
To take it away from my Sky Blue specs, how was Dragusic not given at least a second yellow yesterday. Spurs should have been down to 10 men in normal time. The ref gave Spurs far too much respect - in my view. Some of Spurs tackling was far more agricultural than Tamworth’s.
Sub-conscious bias. We all have it in us, one way or another. We'll of course never know if Tom Kirk was driving back down the motorway laughing to himself that he very nearly got his mates Sheffield Wednesday team into the next round, but I know what I watched on Saturday evening.I have no idea if the FA has that many refs floating around that they're able to do this. But I don't imagine that a 'top' ref is much more likely to deliberately perform badly to help out a local team than a player is.
Sub-conscious bias obviously exists, but I'm not aware of any meaningful way we can control for it, and filtering referees according to where they live certainly doesn't. It makes no more sense to assume a referee from Yorkshire will perform badly in Saturday's game than it does to assume that Yorkshire's own Liam Kitching will do the same.Sub-conscious bias. We all have it in us, one way or another. We'll of course never know if Tom Kirk was driving back down the motorway laughing to himself that he very nearly got his mates Sheffield Wednesday team into the next round, but I know what I watched on Saturday evening.
He got a lot wrong, was extremely biased to one team and his mark from the assessors will be low, and that's a slight consolation I suppose.
Apart from that is complete and utter bollocks.Sub-conscious bias obviously exists, but I'm not aware of any meaningful way we can control for it, and filtering referees according to where they live certainly doesn't. It makes no more sense to assume a referee from Yorkshire will perform badly in Saturday's game than it does to assume that Yorkshire's own Liam Kitching will do the same.
So none of these referees have ever shown unconscious bias during a game?Apart from that is complete and utter bollocks.
Michael Oliver from Ashington - Never refereed a Newcastle or Sunderland match
Martin Atkinson from Bradford - Never refereed a Bradford or Leeds match
Craig Pawson from Sheffield - Never refereed a Sheff Utd, Sheff Wed, Doncaster or Rotherham match, refereed 1 Barnsley match
Peter Bankes from Merseyside - Never refereed a Liverpool, Everton or Tranmere match
Robert Jones from Merseyside - Never refereed a Liverpool, Everton or Tranmere match
Seems the FA think you can control it.
Embarass them by getting them to explain themselves on camera, immediately post match, to managers who have identified issues. As Lampard had.Sub-conscious bias obviously exists, but I'm not aware of any meaningful way we can control for it, and filtering referees according to where they live certainly doesn't. It makes no more sense to assume a referee from Yorkshire will perform badly in Saturday's game than it does to assume that Yorkshire's own Liam Kitching will do the same.
Have to make a conscious decision to try it though.So none of these referees have ever shown unconscious bias during a game?
If the FA want to stop certain referees from refereeing certain games to protect them from the howls of complaint from hyper-partisan fans then that's fine. But I don't think it's doing anything to improve the actual standard of refereeing.
I think referees should be able to speak to the press if they want to, and I'm all for more transparency with refs explaining how/why they made certain decisions. But if the intention is explicitly to "embarass them" then obviously it's not going to help anyone. I respect anyone who faces the press after a bad game, but no player, manager or referee is going to rush to speak if they know that copping to an honest mistake is going to result in people demanding they're instantly sacked for it.Embarass them by getting them to explain themselves on camera, immediately post match, to managers who have identified issues. As Lampard had.
Mind you, VAR might have helpedHave to make a conscious decision to try it though.
Your approach seems submissive and mere acceptance of the status quo.
Shouldn’t be a choice, like for managers or head coaches.I think referees should be able to speak to the press if they want to, and I'm all for more transparency with refs explaining how/why they made certain decisions. But if the intention is explicitly to "embarass them" then obviously it's not going to help anyone. I respect anyone who faces the press after a bad game, but no player, manager or referee is going to rush to speak if they know that copping to an honest mistake is going to result in people demanding they're instantly sacked for it.
If you can prove that it's a big factor in referees underperforming then I'm all for action to stamp it out - what's your evidence though?Have to make a conscious decision to try it though.
Your approach seems submissive and mere acceptance of the status quo.
Whichever way you want to look at it, he shouldn't be given a game which involves a team local to him. Plenty of other games he could have been given which completely eliminates anyone drawing any conclusions either way.
Don’t make the decision contentious then. Easy."To be fair" there's no proof that Coote was doing anything other than mouthing off in private about a known douchebag who had given him shit over a contentious decision.
Oh yeah it’s a breeze this refereeing larkDon’t make the decision contentious then. Easy.
Mental. I couldn’t see a foul from the other end and nor can I on any of the replays/angles. BTA doesn’t even jump into the keeper - if anything his own player impedes him.Just read on the Football Insider website that:
"Coventry were rightly disallowed a second goal in normal time before being taken to extra time and penalties in their FA Cup third round win over Sheffield Wednesday, Keith Hackett has said."
Three guesses where Keith Hackett is from... you got it in one... Sheffield!
Neither do PGMOL refereesMental. I couldn’t see a foul from the other end and nor can I on any of the replays/angles. BTA doesn’t even jump into the keeper - if anything his own player impedes him.
But again, I don’t know what a foul is any more.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?