covmark
Well-Known Member
Why should he keep his nose out, because he dares to say something you don't agree with, and something that goes against PWKH, got to say some people on here are so far up his arse they're tickling his tonsils.
Rioch calls out Higgs/PWKH (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter mattylad
- Start date
Why should he keep his nose out, because he dares to say something you don't agree with, and something that goes against PWKH, got to say some people on here are so far up his arse they're tickling his tonsils.
Desperados
New Member
Still seems an odd situation, especially with there being no reference to the club waiting on the outstanding invoice in the statement last night?
Like i said, fair play to Rioch, shows he cares and we want people like that at our club. Just all the other bull shite from both sides makes your head spin!
mattylad
Member
I have noted on a few threads that certain posters bring out this ridiculous torrent of nonsense whenever it does not fit there own polarised view. When they say things like "keep his nose out" they actually of course mean not say anything that is directly against my own thoughts, however had it been pro that persons thoughts aka yesterdays PWKH post then they would be lauding the statement for all its worth. Thankfully there are many who can see through these double standards and so debate a point as raised without needing to try to dumb a thread down.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Will wait to see what Pwkh says in reply. Why can't we have them all together??? Rioch good man!! Pwkh seemingly good man. Sisu seemingly very bad men and women
kg82
Well-Known Member
Got to agree. The hatred some people feel for either side makes them blinkered. Pointless trying to reason. And because of that, I'm out.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Fair play to Rioch for coming out saying it as he sees it and it has been explained to him.
I do not doubt for one second his passion or commitment to the academy ...... nor do i doubt PWKH's similar commitment to the academy....... despite the two being on opposite sides of the fence. Frankly I find the personal attacks distasteful and lacking in respect. Rather than seeing yesterdays statement as blowing his own trumpet you could see it as expressing his passion and commitment to the youth at CCFC and the city, and how that is being frustrated by the owners of the club and others. That really so hard to believe that someone besides ourselves feels passionately about the academy but is not part of the football club ..... that he felt so passionately he drove the process over 10 years ago to provide the facilities without which the club would not have an academy at all (the club wasnt going to build it nor have they had the funds since to do so)..... as far as i can see PWKH has never had any credit for that.......... shouldnt he though? Seems to me there has been a lot of things done behind the scenes for CCFC over the decades that have gone un-noticed, unrewarded etc
Of course PWKH tells it as he sees it, we all have our own "truth" but at least he tells it..............he gives us information from the heart of the matter, he has to choose his words because of his position, given honestly it is consistent, plain english and given to us so we can make our own minds up having seen at least some facts .................. got a problem with it then question it, do not abuse it. Personal attacks are frankly out of order and only serve to cloud the issues, are they not murky enough? Do we not need proper information so we make our own minds up?
Just my opinion above
This is the legal situation..........
The contract for the academy usage is with CCFC Ltd which is in administration. Any billing done is done in line with the contract to CCFC Ltd it can not just be switched at a whim to a n other entity. CCFC Holdings who are now claiming to operate the academy have no booking or contract either with CSF who operate the centre or the Alan Higgs Trust. A football league academy is attached to the golden share, which the league say is with CCFC Ltd.
Any bills presented to the administrator will be dealt with in two ways, assuming he is not on holiday. Bear in mind that he can only act for CCFC Ltd and that company is non trading property subsidiary apparently. Firstly if it is for costs prior to his appointment he will record the debt and add it to the creditors total for possible settlement sometime in the future (that would include the additional poor weather hires and the maintenance). Most likely to become a bad debt for the AEH centre. Any claims for future hire will be rejected by the administrator as the company to which he has been appointed has no need to spend that money, indeed has no money to spend!. So that bars the academy if seen as owned by CCFC Ltd
The AEH can not bill CCFC H because there is no legal contract to do so. That company is owned by the same people who have been poor payers in the past, and have just wound a company up up leaving potential bad debts for AEH centre. The academy has no booking or contract if owned by CCFC H so simply can not legally use the facilities..... and yes if they did use it in those circumstances and there was an injury that could expose the AEH centre to an uninsured risk. Of course this booking issue was a problem that should have been obvious when the company structures were rearranged..... seems the attitude from ccfc was they will just accept it.
Given what we know and has gone on would you as CSF or the AEH Trust just accept someones word and let them carry on or would you require a proper contract enforceable in law that gets you the money and protects your rights? That takes time and proper confirmation/clearance. Also even if no connection via PWKH etc as a third party would you not be very careful about losing money by non payment given one part of the "football club" is in administration - I know I would. Final question does the academy actually still exist? ....... if it follows the golden share and that is in CCFC Ltd who can no longer provide/pay for facilities, staff, etc it may well not
Rioch saying he will pay this is admirable of him but it doesnt actually change the fact that there is no contract and that contract has to be with whoever owns the academy.
Final point that Rioch brought out the debt would seem not to be 12K
per Rioch
£10500 plus VAT for the maintenance
£4000 for additional hires during bad weather
£XK's for the hire charges April to June
so what are we looking at £30K + ?........... how much do we pay our coaches?
Rioch made a point of saying if was about the money it would be settled, but if more than that it was an information fishing exercise......... what shattering information could be gleaned from signing promptly a new contract and paying what is owed to a Charity?
I do not doubt for one second his passion or commitment to the academy ...... nor do i doubt PWKH's similar commitment to the academy....... despite the two being on opposite sides of the fence. Frankly I find the personal attacks distasteful and lacking in respect. Rather than seeing yesterdays statement as blowing his own trumpet you could see it as expressing his passion and commitment to the youth at CCFC and the city, and how that is being frustrated by the owners of the club and others. That really so hard to believe that someone besides ourselves feels passionately about the academy but is not part of the football club ..... that he felt so passionately he drove the process over 10 years ago to provide the facilities without which the club would not have an academy at all (the club wasnt going to build it nor have they had the funds since to do so)..... as far as i can see PWKH has never had any credit for that.......... shouldnt he though? Seems to me there has been a lot of things done behind the scenes for CCFC over the decades that have gone un-noticed, unrewarded etc
Of course PWKH tells it as he sees it, we all have our own "truth" but at least he tells it..............he gives us information from the heart of the matter, he has to choose his words because of his position, given honestly it is consistent, plain english and given to us so we can make our own minds up having seen at least some facts .................. got a problem with it then question it, do not abuse it. Personal attacks are frankly out of order and only serve to cloud the issues, are they not murky enough? Do we not need proper information so we make our own minds up?
Just my opinion above
This is the legal situation..........
The contract for the academy usage is with CCFC Ltd which is in administration. Any billing done is done in line with the contract to CCFC Ltd it can not just be switched at a whim to a n other entity. CCFC Holdings who are now claiming to operate the academy have no booking or contract either with CSF who operate the centre or the Alan Higgs Trust. A football league academy is attached to the golden share, which the league say is with CCFC Ltd.
Any bills presented to the administrator will be dealt with in two ways, assuming he is not on holiday. Bear in mind that he can only act for CCFC Ltd and that company is non trading property subsidiary apparently. Firstly if it is for costs prior to his appointment he will record the debt and add it to the creditors total for possible settlement sometime in the future (that would include the additional poor weather hires and the maintenance). Most likely to become a bad debt for the AEH centre. Any claims for future hire will be rejected by the administrator as the company to which he has been appointed has no need to spend that money, indeed has no money to spend!. So that bars the academy if seen as owned by CCFC Ltd
The AEH can not bill CCFC H because there is no legal contract to do so. That company is owned by the same people who have been poor payers in the past, and have just wound a company up up leaving potential bad debts for AEH centre. The academy has no booking or contract if owned by CCFC H so simply can not legally use the facilities..... and yes if they did use it in those circumstances and there was an injury that could expose the AEH centre to an uninsured risk. Of course this booking issue was a problem that should have been obvious when the company structures were rearranged..... seems the attitude from ccfc was they will just accept it.
Given what we know and has gone on would you as CSF or the AEH Trust just accept someones word and let them carry on or would you require a proper contract enforceable in law that gets you the money and protects your rights? That takes time and proper confirmation/clearance. Also even if no connection via PWKH etc as a third party would you not be very careful about losing money by non payment given one part of the "football club" is in administration - I know I would. Final question does the academy actually still exist? ....... if it follows the golden share and that is in CCFC Ltd who can no longer provide/pay for facilities, staff, etc it may well not
Rioch saying he will pay this is admirable of him but it doesnt actually change the fact that there is no contract and that contract has to be with whoever owns the academy.
Final point that Rioch brought out the debt would seem not to be 12K
per Rioch
£10500 plus VAT for the maintenance
£4000 for additional hires during bad weather
£XK's for the hire charges April to June
so what are we looking at £30K + ?........... how much do we pay our coaches?
Rioch made a point of saying if was about the money it would be settled, but if more than that it was an information fishing exercise......... what shattering information could be gleaned from signing promptly a new contract and paying what is owed to a Charity?
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rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
You have to pay your bills, why can't people see that i wonder how you run your homes frankly, because we haven't paid our bills has led us to having 10 points less than we should have and not knocking the play-off door. This isn't a suck up to PKWH , don't fucking know the bloke or really interested in him. It is just we are seemingly going down the same road as the Ricoh rent issue yet the money is there from the FA
ajsccfc
Well-Known Member
And you're diverting criticism to Gregor Rioch in the same way based apparently on him being loosely affiliated with the evil, villainous side.
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Due to th absence of any one from the Alan Higgs Trust (PKWH) replying to the comments made by either Steve Waggot yesterday or Gregor Rioch today you can only draw the conclusion that previous bills have been paid bad that an invoice has not been given for the apparent £12000.
You can not make a statement about people keeping their noses out of this business as we all know that JE,GH and PKWH all get their points put across either through accounts of their own or someone else.
Unless you or anyone else knows the true facts then it is all speculation. If SW an GR are wrong then I am sure someone would have come out and argued the point.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Noted thanks
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
What if as a result of it those kids futures are better secured if they experience a couple of months of turbulence?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
covmark
Well-Known Member
I'm not disputing that bills have to be paid, what I have issue with is you saying rioch should keep his nose out, why exactly, he is in the midst of the situation and has an opinion, like someone mentioned earlier in the thread if PWKH does this he is lauded for it, and whatever he says is taken as gospel because it supports yours and certain other posters viewpoints.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
But JE,GH, and PWKH are not employees of the business who haven't paid the bill again. I haven't heard the interview and will listen to it in a bit and will probably sympathise with his comments, but the bottom line has to be "here we are again" because a bill hasn't been paid. If the bill can't be paid because of the administration issue then tell us Mr Waggott as you seem to be the spokesman now.
hill83
Well-Known Member
There is it! Skybluestalk bingo. 1 point.
Just waiting on half term now for the full house.
Sub
Well-Known Member
PWKH Do you have to wait for a reply from the administrator or from SISU on this matter ?
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You are correct they are not employees of the company who allegedly have not paid the bill, but GR stated that all bills are paid up in advance, the point is that an invoice for the £12000 has not been received. I am sure that if you run a business you would not pay bills without an invoice.
mattylad
Member
He clearly says in the radio interview the reason they were looking to agree a deal through until June is to get the kids to the end of the season at which point more time will be available to sort a formal contract out. Where is the harm in that unless your motive is to gain further information now? We are not talking about just 17/18 year olds here were talking about kids as young as 11.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
I will eagerly await the response from the club and if the issue gets resolved and i see no reason why it shouldn't i will withdraw the "Rioch should keep his nose out" comment. Over to you Mr Waggott and co
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
BrisbaneBronco
Well-Known Member
Or they have conveniently misplaced that invoice more like.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I suppose if I was guessing Higgs want some longer term assurances than 3 months
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Look down the back of Tim's sofa, maybe?
hill83
Well-Known Member
That's it! He's figured it out. Case closed, nothing to see here.
mattylad
Member
We don't need more answers that say nothing thank you, we get enough of that from the other lot who own the club.
He will give you a cheque Friday for the money you want, will you accept it and let the kids back in next week.
Its a straight yes or no?
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
matty the whole damn situation is a mess............ if it were you and me booking for a minor league sunday team it wouldnt be a problem for us and no great financial risk to AEH ........... but we are not talking 50 quid a week. If SISU will refund Rioch in full then why not say yes we agree terms presented and pay AEH direct. Just do not see what other info they can gain, other than future commitments
Over the years there have been so many smoke & mirrors so much spin ............ this I cant help feeling is more
It all raises questions too.... like....
Who owns the academy?
Does the Foorball League academy still exist?
Will the academy continue?
Will it be category B ?
Where is funding coming from?
Will it be downsized?
Do they expect to be at AEH next season?
Are their alternatives for a cat B facilities elsewhere?
How will all the clubs problems affect recruitment?
when will they all stop going round in circles ? :thinking about:
Is there a commitment to the academy after June?
etc ...............
Over the years there have been so many smoke & mirrors so much spin ............ this I cant help feeling is more
It all raises questions too.... like....
Who owns the academy?
Does the Foorball League academy still exist?
Will the academy continue?
Will it be category B ?
Where is funding coming from?
Will it be downsized?
Do they expect to be at AEH next season?
Are their alternatives for a cat B facilities elsewhere?
How will all the clubs problems affect recruitment?
when will they all stop going round in circles ? :thinking about:
Is there a commitment to the academy after June?
etc ...............
hill83
Well-Known Member
Bit unfair asking that on here.
ajsccfc
Well-Known Member
So you think that Gregor Rioch should keep his nose out despite him being one of the people directly affected, and you haven't even given him the grace of hearing what he has to say on the matter first?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
In sure Rioch is desperate it happens then. I'm sure your retraction will mean everything to him.
mattylad
Member
He can answer it through whatever media process he wishes.
hill83
Well-Known Member
Fair enough
mattylad
Member
But the club has been able to quickly make other arrangements elsewhere without all of these "other requirements" that seem specific to playing at the Higgs centre? Plus the only ones being hurt in this are the kids. If payment is made this week let them back in to train and learn and then you still have three months to sort the rest out. If CCFC were planning on moving out and there is no reason why they would from the Higgs centre then surely it better to have three months confirmed bookings than nothing at all?
Is that not being petty and cutting off your nose to spite your face?
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