Shamima Begum Not Allowed Back. (1 Viewer)

[Grendel]

So let me get this right.

It is up to us now to prosecute those who commit crimes in other countries?

Yet you mention how bad it can be for others if the precedent is set for someone having their UK citizenship taken off them.

For once he is correct

 

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[Gazolba]

In the olden days, she'd have been burned at the stake for treason.
Nowadays, she's the victim.

 

[clint van damme]

In the olden days, she'd have been burned at the stake for treason.
Nowadays, she's the victim.

are you suggesting we return to burning people at the stake?

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

are you suggesting we return to burning people at the stake?

do you prefer public stoning?

 

[Grendel]

In the olden days, she'd have been burned at the stake for treason.
Nowadays, she's the victim.

Christ are you a resurrection of a Salem judge?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Christ are you a resurrection of a Salem judge?

1. Salem was witch trials not treason
2. The small number of people who were convicted were hanged, not burned at the stake.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

In the olden days, she'd have been burned at the stake for treason.
Nowadays, she's the victim.

People convicted of treason were predominantly hung, drawn and quartered. Burning was usually for being a heretic and even then was quite rare.

 

[shmmeee]

So let me get this right.

It is up to us now to prosecute those who commit crimes in other countries?

Yet you mention how bad it can be for others if the precedent is set for someone having their UK citizenship taken off them.

You can’t have it both ways. Either she’s innocent in the U.K. and it’s nothing to do with us and she should be allowed in with no restrictions, or we do have an issue with her and should apply our laws. As I say, I doubt the “country” she committed her crimes in has the ability or inclination to do anything right now.

 

[shmmeee]

In the olden days, she'd have been burned at the stake for treason.
Nowadays, she's the victim.

In the olden days your sister would’ve been raped for fun.

We moved on.

 

[Travs]

I’m not sure on the current situation, whether or not she has UK citizenship any more.

If at some point in the future, she “turns up at the UK border” then yes we should then treat her as a UK citizen (hopefully within the justice system).

What we shouldn’t do is lift so much as a finger to help her get back here...

 

[Astute]

You can’t have it both ways. Either she’s innocent in the U.K. and it’s nothing to do with us and she should be allowed in with no restrictions, or we do have an issue with her and should apply our laws. As I say, I doubt the “country” she committed her crimes in has the ability or inclination to do anything right now.

I can't have it both ways?

Either people get tried in other countries or we bring them all here for sentencing.

Did she commit any crimes in the UK?

 

[shmmeee]

I can't have it both ways?

Either people get tried in other countries or we bring them all here for sentencing.

Did she commit any crimes in the UK?

If she didn’t, why do you care if she’s let back in?

Not our problem, right?

 

[Astute]

If she didn’t, why do you care if she’s let back in?

Not our problem, right?

Is it just her you want brought back to stand trial or is it all of them that have left the UK to become terrorists? Sounds like it is in the thousands.

So let's bring back thousands of them. Let's put thousands of them in prison. How long do they get? Do they get to stay in the UK after their sentences? Do we try and keep an eye on them all?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Is it just her you want brought back to stand trial or is it all of them that have left the UK to become terrorists? Sounds like it is in the thousands.

So let's bring back thousands of them. Let's put thousands of them in prison. How long do they get? Do they get to stay in the UK after their sentences? Do we try and keep an eye on them all?

How can we stop them coming back if we are not keeping an eye on them all?

 

[skybluetony176]

Is it just her you want brought back to stand trial or is it all of them that have left the UK to become terrorists? Sounds like it is in the thousands.

So let's bring back thousands of them. Let's put thousands of them in prison. How long do they get? Do they get to stay in the UK after their sentences? Do we try and keep an eye on them all?

1000’s? It’s about 900 isn’t it? Many of who have been killed so I’m not sure where you’re getting thousands from.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Also I don’t think she is a victim solely. She was as a 15 year old but has committed acts since that are awful and criminal and should be held to account for in a just and fair manner

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

In the olden days your sister would’ve been raped for fun.

We moved on.

She would also have been the one convicted for pre-marital sex. Her fault for not being prudish enough that the bloke couldn't control himself.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Also I don’t think she is a victim solely. She was as a 15 year old but has committed acts since that are awful and criminal and should be held to account for in a just and fair manner

You shouldn't think shes a victim at all you idiot, she deserves -100 sympathy

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You shouldn't think shes a victim at all you idiot, she deserves -100 sympathy

A 15 year old manipulated to break the law ???? Mmmmmmm

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

A 15 year old manipulated to break the law ???? Mmmmmmm

She knew was she was doing, i knew what i was doing at 15 and so does every 15 year old... your making an invalid point

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

She knew was she was doing, i knew what i was doing at 15 and so does every 15 year old... your making an invalid point

I’m not The brain isn’t fully matured until after the teenage years. It doesn’t matter if you agree it’s a scientific fact

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

At What Age Is The Brain Fully Developed?

 

[Otis]

She knew was she was doing, i knew what i was doing at 15 and so does every 15 year old... your making an invalid point

My daughter is 15 and doesn't. Clearly not. She is very impressionable and at times, naïve.

It is a very valid point.

 

[Astute]

How can we stop them coming back if we are not keeping an eye on them all?

But some want to bring them back. That is unless it is just those who ask through the media.

If we start to bring them back how do we decide who does and who doesn't?

 

[Astute]

My daughter is 15 and doesn't. Clearly not. She is very impressionable and at times, naïve.

It is a very valid point.

But the older she got the worse she got. And at her present age she showed no remorse at all. That was the part that got me.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

But some want to bring them back. That is unless it is just those who ask through the media.

If we start to bring them back how do we decide who does and who doesn't?

Through the law I suppose

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

But the older she got the worse she got. And at her present age she showed no remorse at all. That was the part that got me.

I agree. She has been traumatised by her experiences I’m sure but hard to defend the lack of remorse or regret

 

[Otis]

But the older she got the worse she got. And at her present age she showed no remorse at all. That was the part that got me.

Yes, true. Do we know how long the radicalisation process took with her, to turn her?

 

[Grendel]

My daughter is 15 and doesn't. Clearly not. She is very impressionable and at times, naïve.

It is a very valid point.

I assume you agree 16 is an absurd age to allow the vote as well?

 

[Otis]

I assume you agree 16 is an absurd age to allow the vote as well?

Not absurd, but not a good idea.

My daughter's head of year rang me last week and said my daughter is one of the most mature students in her year.

Listening to my daughter talk about her peers, yep, at 16 they are not mature enough to make an informed choice I don't think.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not absurd, but not a good idea.

My daughter's head of year rang me last week and said my daughter is one of the most mature students in her year.

Listening to my daughter talk about her peers, yep, at 16 they are not mature enough to make an informed choice I don't think.

But how much do you think that'll change in the two years following? What I can't get is that 16 is considered fine to be mature enough regarding sex, relationships and to have and care for children, but not mature enough to think of who they might want to vote for.

 

[Otis]

But how much do you think that'll change in the two years following? What I can't get is that 16 is considered fine to be mature enough regarding sex, relationships and to have and care for children, but not mature enough to think of who they might want to vote for.

Two years is massive. If I look at my daughter when she was 13 and now at 15, the difference is palpable. Big difference between when she was 14 and now at 15 too.

2 years at that sort of age can be huge I would say.

 

[fernandopartridge]

So let me get this right.

It is up to us now to prosecute those who commit crimes in other countries?

Yet you mention how bad it can be for others if the precedent is set for someone having their UK citizenship taken off them.

The crime she is alleged to have committed is technically and likely to have been in this country in any case. It isn't illegal to go to Syria.

Her alleged crime is more to do with the Preparation of Terrorism rather than it in itself. Hence she should be tried here. There is also genuine public interest in understanding who and what radicalised her

 

[Deleted member 5849]

She knew was she was doing, i knew what i was doing at 15 and so does every 15 year old... your making an invalid point

Give 15yos the vote then...

 

[Otis]

Give 15yos the vote then...

It's very contradictory isn't it. Too young to vote, but at 15 they know exactly what they are doing.