Shot yourself in the foot, haven't you SISU (1 Viewer)

[torchomatic]

It would however have put them in a much better financial position than their self-imposed exile in Northampton.

Dont disagree. However if it's not a free deal then don't sell it to the fans as one. Be truthful. It's no better than SISU that way.

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[torchomatic]

So why get pedantic over terms when you know the point Hoffman was making was very valid?

I'm being pedantic because the offer wasn't free. At least you admit he was making a "point" rather than a genuine offer.


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[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Dont disagree. However if it's not a free deal then don't sell it to the fans as one. Be truthful. It's no better than SISU that way.

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To be honest I can't remember who said what at the time the proposition was raised, so I'm not sure who your comment was addressed to - presumably GH or the Telegraph headline writers?

Could we agree on a "no cash cost to SISU" deal?

Not that it matters, given that TF didn't want to discuss it anyway.....

Perhaps

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I'm being pedantic because the offer wasn't free. At least you admit he was making a "point" rather than a genuine offer.


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"Admit" suggests some form of guilt.

I've posted several times before that the whole point of GH's offer was to highlight the absurdity of SISU's stated position at the time that the Football League were considering what to do. Where he went wrong, was in believing that the FL might apply their rules rather than side-stepping them with their "discretionary" powers.

 

[torchomatic]

"Admit" suggests some form of guilt.

I've posted several times before that the whole point of GH's offer was to highlight the absurdity of SISU's stated position at the time that the Football League were considering what to do. Where he went wrong, was in believing that the FL might apply their rules rather than side-stepping them with their "discretionary" powers.

I will substitute the word admit to "acknowledge" then.

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[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I will substitute the word admit to "acknowledge" then.

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Fair do's

 

[Astute]

I am sure there was an offer to play at the Ricoh for free whilst in admin. And with the way SISU have run our club the last few years we wouldn't have rent payable half of the time. And the other half of the time they wouldn't pay anyway.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Sources? What experts saying we must own our ground? I mean finance experts, not "football experts" who are no better qualified than you or me to say what a viable business strategy is.

Stop this bullshit myth. The rent wasn't killing us, the wage bill and debt were and Sisu are responsible for both. Even with no rent Sisu have run up £53m of debt in 6 years of owning the club and have nothing but a relegation and 4 senior players to show for it.

The club needs access to more income, granted, perhaps they shouldn't have cut off the only viable route to getting it by stopping paying the rent? Perhaps they should actually market their product instead of letting it die in Nothampton? Perhaps the could rent some space a a fair deal and start these bank busting "revenue streams" Joy has lined up.

ALL of this ALL OF THIS about the club needing the Ricoh is bollocks. We need to control our costs and increase our outgoings, just owning a stadium won't do either and Sisu have shown no ability to maximise the club's income.

What owning the stadium WILL do is make the club more valuable in a sale scenario, after which we're back to square one with a shit ton of debt.

The club need to do what the club have repeatedly refused to do: fund a competitive team on the pitch and engage and enthuse fans off it. Not whine about property deals.

What a fine offering. Well done Sir!

 

[stupot07]

I am sure there was an offer to play at the Ricoh for free whilst in admin. And with the way SISU have run our club the last few years we wouldn't have rent payable half of the time. And the other half of the time they wouldn't pay anyway.

ACL knew full well that we would try to come out of admin before the season started so their 'free rent whilst in admin' was nothing more than a publicity stunt.


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[bigfatronssba]

ACL knew full well that we would try to come out of admin before the season started so their 'free rent whilst in admin' was nothing more than a publicity stunt.


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I don't deny it was a publicity stunt (more to show how stupid the move to Northampton is imo), but we have yet to find out what the hurry was in coming out of administration?

Why wasn't Appleton allowed to do his job properly and locate all the assets before putting the club up for sale?

 

[CCFCSteve]

To be honest I can't remember who said what at the time the proposition was raised, so I'm not sure who your comment was addressed to - presumably GH or the Telegraph headline writers?

Could we agree on a "no cash cost to SISU" deal?

Not that it matters, given that TF didn't want to discuss it anyway.....

This is the crux of the matter, whether GH's offer was genuine or not and/or ACLs offer of £150k p.a for 10 years was put to the Administrator rather than the club, the fact is that if the club/SISU were interested in either they could have confirmed this. If ACL (or GH) then retracted the offer then we'd know that there are other parties to blame.

However, all we have heard from TF/Joy/SISU is that they aren't going to negotiate with ACL/the council any more (I think the last excuse was that it was there fault we got deducted 10 more points) and will only return to the Ricoh if they own it. The need for ownership is a myth as has been discussed numerous times, ultimately it's all about ensuring you generate more than you spend. If costs are under control and the teams doing well, revenue will follow. Again, as has been covered numerous times, the additional income from remaining at the Ricoh runs into millions. Going to and remaining at Sixfields doesn't make financial sense unless there is an ulterior motive.

SISU are choosing for this club to remain outside of the city, nobody else.

 

[Sky Blue Spud]

This is the crux of the matter, whether GH's offer was genuine or not and/or ACLs offer of £150k p.a for 10 years was put to the Administrator rather than the club, the fact is that if the club/SISU were interested in either they could have confirmed this. If ACL (or GH) then retracted the offer then we'd know that there are other parties to blame.

However, all we have heard from TF/Joy/SISU is that they aren't going to negotiate with ACL/the council any more (I think the last excuse was that it was there fault we got deducted 10 more points) and will only return to the Ricoh if they own it. The need for ownership is a myth as has been discussed numerous times, ultimately it's all about ensuring you generate more than you spend. If costs are under control and the teams doing well, revenue will follow. Again, as has been covered numerous times, the additional income from remaining at the Ricoh runs into millions. Going to and remaining at Sixfields doesn't make financial sense unless there is an ulterior motive.

SISU are choosing for this club to remain outside of the city, nobody else.

Good post Steve and I believe that the ulterior motive that you eluded to is key.
Do SISU have a devious ulterior motive or, as I have mentioned previously, they have run out of ideas and don't know which way to turn.

 

[stupot07]

I don't deny it was a publicity stunt (more to show how stupid the move to Northampton is imo), but we have yet to find out what the hurry was in coming out of administration?

Why wasn't Appleton allowed to do his job properly and locate all the assets before putting the club up for sale?

The hurry was to try and a) avoid a 10 point penalty for coming out of the CVA in a second season, and b) get rid of the transfer embargo.

The second question is can't answer, but I really don't see it making much difference, Otium would still have outbid PH4.


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[mark82]

And Appleton did do his job properly. Just because we don't like the outcome doesn't mean he has done something wrong.

 

[bigfatronssba]

And Appleton did do his job properly. Just because we don't like the outcome doesn't mean he has done something wrong.

I'm afraid I cant agree with you there.

Putting a business up for sale before you know what assets are in the company is not good practice.

 

[bigfatronssba]

The hurry was to try and a) avoid a 10 point penalty for coming out of the CVA in a second season, and b) get rid of the transfer embargo.

The second question is can't answer, but I really don't see it making much difference, Otium would still have outbid PH4.


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The 10 point penalty was because a CVA couldn't be agreed, nothing to do with it being a new season. Ironically if we were still in admin at this moment in time we would now be in 5th place.

The FL allowed City to sign players on a one in one out basis anyway. The embargo had no affect our transfer activity.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

The hurry was to try and a) avoid a 10 point penalty for coming out of the CVA in a second season, and b) get rid of the transfer embargo.

The second question is can't answer, but I really don't see it making much difference, Otium would still have outbid PH4.


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I'd understood that the "second season penalty" wouldn't have applied until next season.

And if coming out of embargo was such an incentive, wouldn't Otium have filed their accounts a little sooner?

 

[kmj5000]

Wrong. His desk included getting the money back "plus a return".[/

Yes, CCFC would have made a profit too but Fisher still didn't even consider it! That's when SISU's game was rumbled wasn't it?

 

[kmj5000]

Another fallacy peddled as the truth. It wasn't "free". Far from it.

OK, at NO COST to SISU then?

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Another fallacy peddled as the truth. It wasn't "free". Far from it.

You might be right Torch... that said... the reality of playing in Northampton is far from attractive for all sorts of reasons none less than the reduced revenue and impact for years to come via FFP ...playing in Northampton WAS/IS a dreadful decision, with not one semblance of business credibility- there can only be one reason for so doing can't there?

 

[Covstu]

wow another thread on the same fucking subject!!!

 

[Astute]

wow another thread on the same fucking subject!!!

Yeah, and I don't go so I am doing something.

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

ACL have made no offer to CCFC - only to the Administrator - get real - we had no choice to leave Coventry thanks to CCC.

What total Bull. ACL could only talk to the administrator as he had legal charge of the Club until / after the sales was agreed.
And what is it with the 'We had no choice'? Are you Timmy?

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

Sadly this is a distinct possibility! All those experts and people in the know ALL agree that CCFC will not survive in the long term either unless the owners or the club own it's own stadium and have access to all revenue streams FACT!
Since neither the Council or ACL will allow this to happen then the owners had no choice than to move the club (short-term, 3 to 5 years!) away from the Ricoh.

I support NONE of the warring factions just my team & the manager, just back from yet another hugely entertaining 98 minutes with a couple of the new shirts, many congratulations to Steven Pressley & his 'united' squad! Just a great pity that so many supporters can't see the woods from the trees and get behind our very exciting side! PUSB! Leon & Jordan were both great.

Not a fact at all. The majority of clubs in the FL have lease arrangements for their stadiums. The difference is that the majority of clubs are run by decent well meaning owners, intent on supporting the local communities and fans whilst making a return on investment. I will agree this will require both parties to work to agree such an arrangement. But sadly JS & Timmy can't do that as it will f>ck their attempt to steal the arena.

 

[skybluefred]

That's not true though is it? By forcing administration last year they did. By denying a fair offer via the CVA from the admin they forced they did it again. They did this blindly believing they could pick new owners for the club. Sisu are crooks but ACL have really screwed us over.

If sisu had paid the rent they where legally obliged to pay none of this would have happened.
It was all part of sisu's plan to get the Ricoh for peanuts.They knew ACL would have to apply for admin which was also part of their plan, knowing full well they where going to put themselves into admin and appoint their own administrator
but wanted to blame ACL.

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

If sisu had paid the rent they where legally obliged to pay none of this would have happened.
It was all part of sisu's plan to get the Ricoh for peanuts.They knew ACL would have to apply for admin which was also part of their plan, knowing full well they where going to put themselves into admin and appoint their own administrator
but wanted to blame ACL.

Bang on the money skybluefred

 

[mark82]

If sisu had paid the rent they where legally obliged to pay none of this would have happened.
It was all part of sisu's plan to get the Ricoh for peanuts.They knew ACL would have to apply for admin which was also part of their plan, knowing full well they where going to put themselves into admin and appoint their own administrator
but wanted to blame ACL.

Yes, they should have paid the rent but the reason ACL tried to force admin was because they thought they could change the owners. If you remember they had Haskell lined up.

 

[James Smith]

Sadly this is a distinct possibility! All those experts and people in the know ALL agree that CCFC will not survive in the long term either unless the owners or the club own it's own stadium and have access to all revenue streams FACT!

Since neither the Council or ACL will allow this to happen then the owners had no choice than to move the club (short-term, 3 to 5 years!) away from the Ricoh.

I support NONE of the warring factions just my team & the manager, just back from yet another hugely entertaining 98 minutes with a couple of the new shirts, many congratulations to Steven Pressley & his 'united' squad! Just a great pity that so many supporters can't see the woods from the trees and get behind our very exciting side! PUSB! Leon & Jordan were both great.

Why does the club need to own the stadium? I agree about the revenue streams but still don't see why we have to own the freehold. You said that it is a fact but don't offer any evidence to back it up. Can you explain why an ACL type lease and a low rent say 100k a year isn't preferable to spending tens of millions on the freehold?