Should Mark Robins be sacked? (1 Viewer)

[skybluetony176]

Out of all the managers we have sacked in that time, who didn't deserve it? Only Eric Black and Dowie stand out for me. We gave Coleman and Micky Adams 2 years+ each too...

Don’t think Nilsson was given enough time either. Certainly GM wasn’t an improvement, although I guess you could argue that ultimately it lead to Black’s appointment. Who also as you say stood out.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Sorry don't agree, who knows what progress we'd have made if we kept the faith with them. I don't think any of them deserved the sack because none had 3 years on which to judge them. Football is out of hand with people expecting managers can do a turnaround job within months of joining. Would the BBC sack its Director General after 12 months if results were worse than expected? Would Tesco? What about other sports or industries? I can't think of another sector where there's a such a desperate obsession with immediate results (i.e.. within first 12-18 months of the job) and a terror of "failure" leading to such an aggressive "hire and fire" culture. It's bound to impact results long term. Have you considered that our long term decline in league position is because of a lack of continuity in management, rather than hiring the wrong managers / keeping them too long?

Bear in mind that Mowbray, Dowie, Aidy, Reid and Adams between them got promoted to the Prem 6 times. It can't have been the case that our owners recruited the wrong managers all the time....

Coleman bombed out of the play offs in successive seasons and looked like a man who had run out of ideas-his final post match interview was that of a beaten man.

Adams again bombed in his 3rd season and seemed miserable in his position, another man who didn't know what to try next. I don't recall many arguing that he hadn't been given enough time when he went.

Dowie I agree was let go too early, though he was sacked not for poor performance but for not seeing eye to eye with Ranson.

Boothroyd had only one approach and had no alternative when it was found out around December time.

Reid would've had us relegated, change of manager was essential to stay up.

Mowbray bombed out of the play-offs like Coleman, and didn't change his approach going into the following season. The results were catastrophic, he knew where it was headed, so he walked.

I would buy your argument if Robins hadn't got a squad stronger than the one relegated last season, in a lower division. The bookies, rightly, had us at 3rd favourites. A fair number of our wins have come from cracking solo efforts, while a large number of defeats have come from being out-thought and setting up too negatively. I would attribute long term decline not to managerial changes, but to ineptitude higher up, starting with Richardson and moving through to the delightful present incumbents. Ill advised spending sprees under Richardson and then Paul Fletcher, SISU's Northampton expedition which has permanently cost us our ground and killed attendances, I could go on. But it's not because we sacked Chris Coleman for wasting millions on bottom half finishes or because Mowbray walked after filling a team with lightweight kids and journeymen.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Yep....Roland was let down by the pricks in charge appointing Jim smith as an unnecessary assistant who managed to unsettle & unbalance a team that had been performing well......& then also the senior players who seriously bottled the last 6 or so games.....

...sitting pretty in 4th & then was it 1 point from the last 8 games or similar.......

...from Eustace to useless.....

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Don’t think Nilsson was given enough time either. Certainly GM wasn’t an improvement, although I guess you could argue that ultimately it lead to Black’s appointment. Who also as you say stood out.

Good point, though the collapse that season was pretty spectacular. McAllister was a strange one, had us comfortably in the play-offs in January then we only won once more that season. Black's sacking was the biggest mistake by far, who had the players on side and playing very nice football. I suspect Reid expected much more funding than he actually got and it went off a cliff.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yep....Roland was let down by the pricks in charge appointing Jim smith as an unnecessary assistant who managed to unsettle & unbalance a team that had been performing well......& then also the senior players who seriously bottled the last 6 or so games.....

...sitting pretty in 4th & then was it 1 point from the last 8 games or similar.......

...from Eustace to useless.....

Forgot about Smiths appointment. Didn’t he promptly go on holiday for two weeks once appointed. You only have to look at Nilssons record in management since to see he’s capable.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Forgot about Smiths appointment. Didn’t he promptly go on holiday for two weeks once appointed. You only have to look at Nilssons record in management since to see he’s capable.

Should have stayed on holiday the tit......then maybe we wouldn't have recruited trollope & Carbonari......that season still pisses me off now.

 

[Otis]

Sorry don't agree, who knows what progress we'd have made if we kept the faith with them. I don't think any of them deserved the sack because none had 3 years on which to judge them. Football is out of hand with people expecting managers can do a turnaround job within months of joining. Would the BBC sack its Director General after 12 months if results were worse than expected? Would Tesco? What about other sports or industries? I can't think of another sector where there's a such a desperate obsession with immediate results (i.e.. within first 12-18 months of the job) and a terror of "failure" leading to such an aggressive "hire and fire" culture. It's bound to impact results long term. Have you considered that our long term decline in league position is because of a lack of continuity in management, rather than hiring the wrong managers / keeping them too long?

Bear in mind that Mowbray, Dowie, Aidy, Reid and Adams between them got promoted to the Prem 6 times. It can't have been the case that our owners recruited the wrong managers all the time....

I shudder to think where we would be if we gave Andy Thorn 3 years.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Time is not our friend thanks to the extra issues the club faces off the pitch. At the end of next season most of our players' contracts will be up. If we finish in the bottom half as you are content to do there isn't a cat in hell's chance they will stay or that attendances will be much above 5k.

You're then looking at a weaker group going into Year 3 with an even more shrivelled fan base than we have now. The trend is to go down, not up. And I don't know about you, but I don't want to be in this terrible league a moment more than we have to be. We need to get back up to a respectable standard.

Agreed, well reasoned argument. We definitely need to throw the kitchen sink at promotion next season (assuming we don’t go up).

I still think this team is good enough for playoffs, and the next 3 games are critical for us. However, I don’t think you can downplay the impact of injuries on the squad. The void left by Jones alone hasn’t been filled and he was our best player, and arguably, one of the best in the division too. Then there’s Andreu (an unknown quality tbf), and we lost Nazon (still our second top scorer) as well. So we’re going the second half our our season without our 2nd and 3rd top goal scorers. That alone, I think we’ve got to cut Robins a bit of slack and give him the chance to refine his squad. It was unlikely we were going to put together a league winning squad over one summer, losing the players we have has (most likely) put us out of reach for autos. I can forgive Robins if we miss out on playoffs this season, but would be prepared to swing the axe early next season if he’s failing. He’s been given nearly everything this season.

I hope this latest run is just a wobble, but we’ve put us in a difficult run with us playing; Lincoln, Mansfield and Wycombe. It’s clearly Male or break for this season.

 

[Otis]

Agreed, well reasoned argument. We definitely need to throw the kitchen sink at promotion next season (assuming we don’t go up).

I still think this team is good enough for playoffs, and the next 3 games are critical for us. However, I don’t think you can downplay the impact of injuries on the squad. The void left by Jones alone hasn’t been filled and he was our best player, and arguably, one of the best in the division too. Then there’s Andreu (an unknown quality tbf), and we lost Nazon (still our second top scorer) as well. So we’re going the second half our our season without our 2nd and 3rd top goal scorers. That alone, I think we’ve got to cut Robins a bit of slack and give him the chance to refine his squad. It was unlikely we were going to put together a league winning squad over one summer, losing the players we have has (most likely) put us out of reach for autos. I can forgive Robins if we miss out on playoffs this season, but would be prepared to swing the axe early next season if he’s failing. He’s been given nearly everything this season.

I hope this latest run is just a wobble, but we’ve put us in a difficult run with us playing; Lincoln, Mansfield and Wycombe. It’s clearly Male or break for this season.

Sexist!!

 

[oucho]

I shudder to think where we would be if we gave Andy Thorn 3 years.

We'd have pissed League One and probably be in the Champ by now. IMO.

 

[Nick]

We'd have pissed League One and probably be in the Champ by now. IMO.

Can you please add some smilies to indicate sarcasm?

 

[Otis]

Can you please add some smilies to indicate sarcasm?

Would help stop me calling for the men in the White coats for sure.

 

[Captain Dart]

I shudder to think where we would be if we gave Andy Thorn 3 years.

Surely he's got a few more years than that in him, he's only 51.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Agreed, well reasoned argument. We definitely need to throw the kitchen sink at promotion next season (assuming we don’t go up).

I still think this team is good enough for playoffs, and the next 3 games are critical for us. However, I don’t think you can downplay the impact of injuries on the squad. The void left by Jones alone hasn’t been filled and he was our best player, and arguably, one of the best in the division too. Then there’s Andreu (an unknown quality tbf), and we lost Nazon (still our second top scorer) as well. So we’re going the second half our our season without our 2nd and 3rd top goal scorers. That alone, I think we’ve got to cut Robins a bit of slack and give him the chance to refine his squad. It was unlikely we were going to put together a league winning squad over one summer, losing the players we have has (most likely) put us out of reach for autos. I can forgive Robins if we miss out on playoffs this season, but would be prepared to swing the axe early next season if he’s failing. He’s been given nearly everything this season.

I hope this latest run is just a wobble, but we’ve put us in a difficult run with us playing; Lincoln, Mansfield and Wycombe. It’s clearly Male or break for this season.

Andreu looked a cut above this level when he played, but being out for so long who knows what he'll be like when he comes back, same for Jones. Those 2 injuries were rotten luck, and had me revise expectations down to the top 7 rather than the top 3. JCH has shown he can be a definite asset, but if we persist with negativity on the road Mansfield and Wycombe will have a field day. When you have a crack at these teams, they don't like it. We might concede a few more, but it's time to have a go.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Surely he's got a few more years than that in him, he's only 51.

With that waistline who knows

 

[Otis]

With that waistline who knows

I've heard that since quitting football altogether he now hires himself out as a bouncy castle for children's parties.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Andreu looked a cut above this level when he played, but being out for so long who knows what he'll be like when he comes back, same for Jones. Those 2 injuries were rotten luck, and had me revise expectations down to the top 7 rather than the top 3. JCH has shown he can be a definite asset, but if we persist with negativity on the road Mansfield and Wycombe will have a field day. When you have a crack at these teams, they don't like it. We might concede a few more, but it's time to have a go.

Agreed - I’ve said on other threads that I think Robins buys into this ‘win the battle’ mentality too much! Whenever we’ve scored in the first quarter of the game, I don’t believe we’ve dropped points in that position (some correct me if I’m wrong). So you’d think it would be prudent to ‘blitz’ teams for that first quarter.

But, in fairness to Robins’, there aren’t any ‘sparkplugs’ in midfield at the moment. Now Jones and Andreu are out. I felt like we’ve dealt with it quite well, but entering the business end of the season, we’re running out of steam. You can see MR hasn’t decided who the first choice is at RM, because he shuffles, Bayliss, Vincenti, DeKE and JMD. Neither the loanees of JMD or Barrett look particularly special either. I’m not going to blame MR for that, because they were probably as good as it was going to get in terms of January signings.

If you look at the difference between us and the teams that are where we want to be, the thing that stands out is these teams score goals all over the pitch. Take McNulty out of the team, our top goal scorer is Doyle on 3. Jones’ injury has hamstrung the midfield. Our 8 defenders have 1 goal between them all season - and that was scored in game 2 of the season. Meanwhile, Luton’s defence has scored 14 between them - more than McNulty! And in the 50/50 games where losses could be converted into draws, draws into wins and so on, we’re going to miss out more often than not. I think that’s partly why we’ve lost 12 games already.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Agreed - I’ve said on other threads that I think Robins buys into this ‘win the battle’ mentality too much! Whenever we’ve scored in the first quarter of the game, I don’t believe we’ve dropped points in that position (some correct me if I’m wrong). So you’d think it would be prudent to ‘blitz’ teams for that first quarter.

But, in fairness to Robins’, there aren’t any ‘sparkplugs’ in midfield at the moment. Now Jones and Andreu are out. I felt like we’ve dealt with it quite well, but entering the business end of the season, we’re running out of steam. You can see MR hasn’t decided who the first choice is at RM, because he shuffles, Bayliss, Vincenti, DeKE and JMD. Neither the loanees of JMD or Barrett look particularly special either. I’m not going to blame MR for that, because they were probably as good as it was going to get in terms of January signings.

If you look at the difference between us and the teams that are where we want to be, the thing that stands out is these teams score goals all over the pitch. Take McNulty out of the team, our top goal scorer is Doyle on 3. Jones’ injury has hamstrung the midfield. Our 8 defenders have 1 goal between them all season - and that was scored in game 2 of the season. Meanwhile, Luton’s defence has scored 14 between them - more than McNulty! And in the 50/50 games where losses could be converted into draws, draws into wins and so on, we’re going to miss out more often than not. I think that’s partly why we’ve lost 12 games already.

On past evidence, the last thing Mansfield will be expecting is for us to actually have a go at them and attack. Since we're so bereft of wingers, and Vincenti is God awful, maybe the answer is to go into something more like a diamond and improve the supply to McNulty and co. It's not ideal, but we're probably worse off playing any old person on the wings. Get it into McNulty's feet and good things tend to happen...

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I've heard that since quitting football altogether he now hires himself out as a bouncy castle for children's parties.

He was, but he got sacked by Kiddie-minster Harriers after a week.

 

[Esoterica]

On past evidence, the last thing Mansfield will be expecting is for us to actually have a go at them and attack. Since we're so bereft of wingers, and Vincenti is God awful, maybe the answer is to go into something more like a diamond and improve the supply to McNulty and co. It's not ideal, but we're probably worse off playing any old person on the wings. Get it into McNulty's feet and good things tend to happen...

Shipley and Vincenti were so narrow at times vs Colchester that we virtually were playing a diamond for much of the first half!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Shipley and Vincenti were so narrow at times vs Colchester that we virtually were playing a diamond for much of the first half!

Oh dear

 

[better days]

Agreed - I’ve said on other threads that I think Robins buys into this ‘win the battle’ mentality too much! Whenever we’ve scored in the first quarter of the game, I don’t believe we’ve dropped points in that position (some correct me if I’m wrong). So you’d think it would be prudent to ‘blitz’ teams for that first quarter.

But, in fairness to Robins’, there aren’t any ‘sparkplugs’ in midfield at the moment. Now Jones and Andreu are out. I felt like we’ve dealt with it quite well, but entering the business end of the season, we’re running out of steam. You can see MR hasn’t decided who the first choice is at RM, because he shuffles, Bayliss, Vincenti, DeKE and JMD. Neither the loanees of JMD or Barrett look particularly special either. I’m not going to blame MR for that, because they were probably as good as it was going to get in terms of January signings.

If you look at the difference between us and the teams that are where we want to be, the thing that stands out is these teams score goals all over the pitch. Take McNulty out of the team, our top goal scorer is Doyle on 3. Jones’ injury has hamstrung the midfield. Our 8 defenders have 1 goal between them all season - and that was scored in game 2 of the season. Meanwhile, Luton’s defence has scored 14 between them - more than McNulty! And in the 50/50 games where losses could be converted into draws, draws into wins and so on, we’re going to miss out more often than not. I think that’s partly why we’ve lost 12 games already.

It's a strange one with JMD
He was outstanding for Dagenham and Redbridge last year helping then to the National League play offs
He was a hot property with L2 clubs this season and Danny Cowley took him to Lincoln where he spent a lot of time injured after an impressive performance in a Checkatrade game
He seems to have been lacking fitness and carrying a bit of weight in his first team games so far but apparently did well for the U23's on Monday
If they lad gets his head down he could make a difference but it's up to him to grab his chance when it comes

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

On past evidence, the last thing Mansfield will be expecting is for us to actually have a go at them and attack. Since we're so bereft of wingers, and Vincenti is God awful, maybe the answer is to go into something more like a diamond and improve the supply to McNulty and co. It's not ideal, but we're probably worse off playing any old person on the wings. Get it into McNulty's feet and good things tend to happen...

I don’t mind Vincenti, does a lot of underrated and undervalued work. However, I don’t think he’s a winger and should probably stop playing him there tbh.

I want to touch on something you alluded to, if Andreu looked a ‘cut above’, and JCH looks like a ‘definite asset’, and Robins has brought in the likes of Doyle, McNulty, McDonald, Davies (and even Hyam has even played well when he’s played tbf), he’s also brought through Bayliss and Shipley too. I think that warrants the fans’ and board’s trust. Whilst it would be a disaster to miss out on playoffs, there’s not much of a difference between missing out just, and making it and losing in the playoffs.

He can clearly spot talent, so even if players leave at the end of their contracts - which is part and parcel of football - I’d trust him to rebuild again.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don’t mind Vincenti, does a lot of underrated and undervalued work. However, I don’t think he’s a winger and should probably stop playing him there tbh.

I want to touch on something you alluded to, if Andreu looked a ‘cut above’, and JCH looks like a ‘definite asset’, and Robins has brought in the likes of Doyle, McNulty, McDonald, Davies (and even Hyam has even played well when he’s played tbf), he’s also brought through Bayliss and Shipley too. I think that warrants the fans’ and board’s trust. Whilst it would be a disaster to miss out on playoffs, there’s not much of a difference between missing out just, and making it and losing in the playoffs.

He can clearly spot talent, so even if players leave at the end of their contracts - which is part and parcel of football - I’d trust him to rebuild again.

No arguing with his recruitment from me. The issue lies in what he's doing with them and (so far) stubborn persistence with a broken system. 15 more games of the same stuff and I don't trust him having another go.

 

[stupot07]

It's a strange one with JMD
He was outstanding for Dagenham and Redbridge last year helping then to the National League play offs
He was a hot property with L2 clubs this season and Danny Cowley took him to Lincoln where he spent a lot of time injured after an impressive performance in a Checkatrade game
He seems to have been lacking fitness and carrying a bit of weight in his first team games so far but apparently did well for the U23's on Monday
If they lad gets his head down he could make a difference but it's up to him to grab his chance when it comes

He's on the wrong wing for me. I have no idea why we've signed a left footer who wants to play on the right wing, and a right footer who wants to play on the left wing.

In the Accrington, he failed in the breaks away because he needed to hit a first time pass with his wrong foot, spooned it to the keeper. Later one, he lost 2 good cross field balls because of poor control as he had to use his wrong foot.

We have this obsession with 'inverted' wingers (we played Jones right and Vincenti left at thr start of the season) but pretty much every side play a right footer on the right side and left footer on the left. It gives balance, and means you can either go around the back and cross it in, or you can hit an early cross. Far too predicable that our wrong sided wingers have to cut in every time. Makes it easy to defend against, and means we don't get enough balls into the box for the strikers.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Grendel]

We'd have pissed League One and probably be in the Champ by now. IMO.

The only thing that’s pissed is clearly you.

 

[oucho]

The only thing that’s pissed is clearly you.

Not in work hours!

 

[Legia Sky Blue]

Should have stayed on holiday the tit......then maybe we wouldn't have recruited trollope & Carbonari......that season still pisses me off now.

Completely agree with this - Trollope & Carbonari were terrible signings. I honestly believe we would have finished in the play offs that season if Nilsson had Richard Money alongside him, rather than having the disruption of having Jim Smith forced on him. The following 16 years could then have been so different!!

 

[Hobo]

4-4-2 and that's how Robins should be diced and thrown to the fans who know better, fans who have grasped one leg of the fattened cow.

 

[David O'Day]

should he fuck you weirdo (to op)

 

[Otis]

Pardew. 1 win in 27!!

Wonder what the vote is there amongst fans.

 

[Nick]

 

[Sick Boy]

He I'd an utter moron and a dreadful manager.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Pardew. 1 win in 27!!

Wonder what the vote is there amongst fans.

That’s not all at WBA though is it?


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[Otis]

That’s not all at WBA though is it?


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Is it not? Just heard Jeff Stelling say it on SSN. Thought it was a rather large amount of games.