So if this is a forced takeover... (7 Viewers)

[italiahorse]

To be honest I was trying to remember as it was massively discussed.
I didn't get the feeling back then that anyone who looked at it ever concluded that liquidation would be a sensible option.
Pretty sure it was generally accepted the best fit SISU would be sell everything they could first.

They had managed to move the golden share (and the players registrations) from the part of the club that went into administration (where they should have been) into the other bit they owned.
Hence stopping anybody buying the club in administration because it hadn't the players or the golden share to allow it to compete.

 

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[Sick Boy]

They will be going it's just a matter of when.
They can take us where they want, they can liquidate us but at the end of the day they will go and we can start again at the bottom.
We as fans can't get rid of Sisu, but others seem now to be doing it for us.
CCFC and fans will continue to be collateral damage during this wrench from Sisu of our club..
If they had liquidated us 3 years ago we would have started possibly in L2 or Conference. But we would be back by now.
How low will Sisu let us go. There's more pain before we gain with these idiots.
Whoever takes us over (and I'm saying Wasps) will have no debt, a clean record and access to Wasps facilities.
The end game is here and bring it on.

You really need to get over your hatred of SISU and move on, it's in the past.

 

[shmmeee]

You can't really put too much value in anything posted by anonymous people on forum with no identification check. Like this board. There is no protection against people hired to promote, spin, twist or counter a debate. You don't know how many accounts people have setup just to make a lot of noise or to repeat the same argument over and over till it becomes the de facto truth (Goebbels tactics).

Except unlike some forums a lot of the poeple here are long term posters and/or known IRL by others. They're not all lizard people dude, just people that see things differently.

 

[duffer]

Does the clause stop us having an Academy then? I can tell you now it doesn't. But agree the fans should be behind the club, but I am not at all surprised they are not

The HIggs 'don't sell to SISU' clause, combined with the termination of the lease by CSF, and the refusal of Wasps to look for their own academy site but instead to take over ours, surely does spell the end for the academy in its current form.

Let's be clear here: No one is forcing CSF to take the Wasps deal, and no one is forcing Wasps to takeover the Academy. This is a deliberate choice those parties have taken, despite the fact that there are alternatives and it is clearly not in the interest of the football club, or the vast majority of children in the city who play football rather than rugby.

Neither Wasps nor The Higgs Charity are at any risk from the continuing or pending legal action from SISU, so the sell-on 'clause' from Higgs and the insistence that SISU drop legal action from Wasps can surely only be intended for some other purpose. I can only presume it's to help out their 'friends' at the Council.

SISU aren't blameless here, but clearly Wasps, Higgs, and CSF have colluded between themselves to further harm the club.

Wasps owners were always going to look after themselves and nuts to anyone else (including their own fans), that's why they moved. Only a few complete idiots in the council and elsewhere thought any different.

But CCC, CSF and Higgs are supposed to have broader remits than that for the good of the city. Once they've screwed the club over completely, and our best kids don't have a local team to follow or aspire to play for, then the only thing the people behind this will have left is a warm glow from having finally beaten SISU and a lot of free tickets to a game they neither understand nor care for.

 

[shmmeee]

You really need to get over your hatred of SISU and move on, it's in the past.

Except it's not is it. Because we are all sat around discussing the ramifications of their stupidity. And we probably still will be long after they've left.

 

[shmmeee]

The HIggs 'don't sell to SISU' clause, combined with the termination of the lease by CSF, and the refusal of Wasps to look for their own academy site but instead to take over ours, surely does spell the end for the academy in its current form.

Let's be clear here: No one is forcing CSF to take the Wasps deal, and no one is forcing Wasps to takeover the Academy. This is a deliberate choice those parties have taken, despite the fact that there are alternatives and it is clearly not in the interest of the football club, or the vast majority of children in the city who play football rather than rugby.

Neither Wasps nor The Higgs Charity are at any risk from the continuing or pending legal action from SISU, so the sell-on 'clause' from Higgs and the insistence that SISU drop legal action from Wasps can surely only be intended for some other purpose. I can only presume it's to help out their 'friends' at the Council.

SISU aren't blameless here, but clearly Wasps, Higgs, and CSF have colluded between themselves to further harm the club.

Wasps owners were always going to look after themselves and nuts to anyone else (including their own fans), that's why they moved. Only a few complete idiots in the council and elsewhere thought any different.

But CCC, CSF and Higgs are supposed to have broader remits than that for the good of the city. Once they've screwed the club over completely, and our best kids don't have a local team to follow or aspire to play for, then the only thing the people behind this will have left is a warm glow from having finally beaten SISU and a lot of free tickets to a game they neither understand nor care for.

I'm not following the ins and outs, but from what I've read CCFC have been offered space for the academy but decided they want first team as well so they can profit from selling Ryton.

More to the point, and I will keep repeating this until it goes in, even if there is a conspiracy, it's only mad possible by the recent actions of the club.

You want to be angry at someone for potentially losing the academy? Be angry at the people whose job it is to plan for its continued existence.

 

[Nick]

I'm not following the ins and outs, but from what I've read CCFC have been offered space for the academy but decided they want first team as well so they can profit from selling Ryton.

More to the point, and I will keep repeating this until it goes in, even if there is a conspiracy, it's only mad possible by the recent actions of the club.

You want to be angry at someone for potentially losing the academy? Be angry at the people whose job it is to plan for its continued existence.

where has it been mentioned about selling Ryton to profit?

I think conspiracies could have been about for years couldn't they?

 

[chiefdave]

I'm not following the ins and outs, but from what I've read CCFC have been offered space for the academy but decided they want first team as well so they can profit from selling Ryton.

You've made a big leap from what Anderson actually said. He just said that the club were prepared to move from Ryton to Higgs to show commitment to the city.

 

[dongonzalos]

The HIggs 'don't sell to SISU' clause, combined with the termination of the lease by CSF, and the refusal of Wasps to look for their own academy site but instead to take over ours, surely does spell the end for the academy in its current form.

Let's be clear here: No one is forcing CSF to take the Wasps deal, and no one is forcing Wasps to takeover the Academy. This is a deliberate choice those parties have taken, despite the fact that there are alternatives and it is clearly not in the interest of the football club, or the vast majority of children in the city who play football rather than rugby.

Neither Wasps nor The Higgs Charity are at any risk from the continuing or pending legal action from SISU, so the sell-on 'clause' from Higgs and the insistence that SISU drop legal action from Wasps can surely only be intended for some other purpose. I can only presume it's to help out their 'friends' at the Council.

SISU aren't blameless here, but clearly Wasps, Higgs, and CSF have colluded between themselves to further harm the club.

Wasps owners were always going to look after themselves and nuts to anyone else (including their own fans), that's why they moved. Only a few complete idiots in the council and elsewhere thought any different.

But CCC, CSF and Higgs are supposed to have broader remits than that for the good of the city. Once they've screwed the club over completely, and our best kids don't have a local team to follow or aspire to play for, then the only thing the people behind this will have left is a warm glow from having finally beaten SISU and a lot of free tickets to a game they neither understand nor care for.

Regarding Wasps choosing the Higgs site over others.

I don't think it is a case of let's screw CCFC.
Until the last few weeks CCFC were talking about building their own academy.
If you are looking at sites for a new training centre and one of the sites happens to be a purpose built sporting facility already set up for an elite team that you only need to modify.
I would guess it's good business practice to go that way

 

[Nick]

Regarding Wasps choosing the Higgs site over others.

I don't think it is a case of let's screw CCFC.
Until the last few weeks CCFC were talking about building their own academy.
If you are looking at sites for a new training centre and one of the sites happens to be a purpose built sporting facility already set up for an elite team that you only need to modify.
I would guess it's good business practice to go that way

1. That just happens to be owned by somebody who hates the football club
2. That just happened to be run by a sports foundation trying to push rugby across the city as much as possible.
3. I thought they were doing it at Broadstreet? If It was SISU making up pretend things like that they would get crucified..
4. Could it have been part of the actual Ricoh deal / agreement?

 

[duffer]

I'm not following the ins and outs, but from what I've read CCFC have been offered space for the academy but decided they want first team as well so they can profit from selling Ryton.

More to the point, and I will keep repeating this until it goes in, even if there is a conspiracy, it's only mad possible by the recent actions of the club.

You want to be angry at someone for potentially losing the academy? Be angry at the people whose job it is to plan for its continued existence.

If you think CCFC have been genuinely offered space for the academy at the AEHC, then you certainly haven't been reading very well. Go have a look at those ins and outs again, especially the clauses like 'exclusive use'.

I'm not going to let my dislike of SISU cloud the picture. Higgs, CSF, and Wasps have alternatives here but they've clearly chosen a path that is going to screw the club over. This, in the same way that CCC did when they sold the Ricoh and pretended that it would have no negative impact on CCFC.

It staggers me that fans of the club wouldn't be angry at this. "It's all SISU's fault" is a daft argument for not getting annoyed at those who have broader responsibilities.

I used to say that the club will still be here long after SISU have gone, but such is the hatred of them here that many are willing to accept anything done to the club because it's all SISU's fault. That's utterly irrational, imho.

 

[chiefdave]

I don't think it is a case of let's screw CCFC.
Until the last few weeks CCFC were talking about building their own academy.
If you are looking at sites for a new training centre and one of the sites happens to be a purpose built sporting facility already set up for an elite team that you only need to modify.
I would guess it's good business practice to go that way

Wasps and CCFC have clearly been in communication with each other. I would expect Wasps to just say to CCFC, 'we're considering the Higgs as a training centre, would that cause you problems?'.

 

[dongonzalos]

1. That just happens to be owned by somebody who hates the football club
2. That just happened to be run by a sports foundation trying to push rugby across the city as much as possible.
3. I thought they were doing it at Broadstreet? If It was SISU making up pretend things like that they would get crucified..
4. Could it have been part of the actual Ricoh deal / agreement?

Take all of that out of the equation and make the decision yourself purely from a business perspective which site is better for you broad street or one pretty much ready made?

 

[chiefdave]

I thought they were doing it at Broadstreet?

Why can they not stay at broadstreet permanently? That seems to make perfect sense to me. They will have a lot of what they need already in place, the extra facilities would be of benefit to others and it could increase rather than decrease the community offering.

 

[Nick]

Take all of that out of the equation and make the decision yourself purely from a business perspective which site is better for you broad street or one pretty much ready made?

Aren't they building the Wasps stuff on the back?

 

[torchomatic]

I'm not following the ins and outs, but from what I've read CCFC have been offered space for the academy but decided they want first team as well so they can profit from selling Ryton.
.

I think you need to clean your glasses.

 

[Nick]

Why can they not stay at broadstreet permanently? That seems to make perfect sense to me. They will have a lot of what they need already in place, the extra facilities would be of benefit to others and it could increase rather than decrease the community offering.

Probably because the whole Higgs link isn't there.

The same could be said as to why they didn't build a stadium or move in London.

Dongo will be trying to tell everybody it is just business sense if we moved to a ready made stadium somewhere.

 

[chiefdave]

Take all of that out of the equation and make the decision yourself purely from a business perspective which site is better for you broad street or one pretty much ready made?

Don't see any reason not to permanently base at Broadstreet.

It has five pitches of which two are floodlit, plus substantial amounts of car parking and land which make it an ideal location for Wasps.

Planning permission has been applied for to erect new training facilities on the site, adjacent to the current clubhouse, and Wasps will be allocated a dedicated training pitch, which specialists Greenfields, who manage the Ricoh Arena pitch, will prepare.

 

[dongonzalos]

Don't see any reason not to permanently base at Broadstreet.

There won't be any reason not to base yourself at Broadstreet.
However take your CCFC glasses off and ask yourself which is best and will require least cost?

 

[duffer]

Take all of that out of the equation and make the decision yourself purely from a business perspective which site is better for you broad street or one pretty much ready made?

Absolutely - from a purely business perspective it makes good sense to take the option. It also very clearly screws the club over. It wouldn't make quite as much sense if people were willing to stand up for the club against Wasps for doing it, but who's going to trouble themselves to do that when they can blame SISU for everything.

Simlarly, if the owners of the site were interested in doing the best for sport overall in the city, rather than just for Wasps, then you'd think they might think again. But I guess for some that SISU's fault too.

 

[dongonzalos]

In addition to that is Broadstreet a possible solution for us?

 

[dongonzalos]

Absolutely - from a purely business perspective it makes good sense to take the option. It also very clearly screws the club over. It wouldn't make quite as much sense if people were willing to stand up for the club against Wasps for doing it, but who's going to trouble themselves to do that when they can blame SISU for everything.

Simlarly, if the owners of the site were interested in doing the best for sport overall in the city, rather than just for Wasps, then you'd think they might think again. But I guess for some that SISU's fault too.

But remove all of the emotion and all of that side of it.
You are Wasps
You are a businessman and this is one of your 20+ selected sites.
You owe nothing to CCFC.
CCFC are/were saying they don't want it long term.
I am sure when CCFC changed their minds Wasps had probably already decided.

 

[Nick]

But remove all of the emotion and all of that side of it.
You are Wasps
You are a businessman and this is one of your 20+ selected sites.
You owe nothing to CCFC.
CCFC are/were saying they don't want it long term.
I am sure when CCFC changed their minds Wasps had probably already decided.

I don't think people disagree with that do they? Do you think it is actual justification? Do you really think they shouldn't take any blame at all for it as it is "just business"?


Do you think it is just a co-incidence that Higgs sell up, just as a city of rugby thing is launched by the company they sold to, then wasps suddenly change their minds from broadstreet to higgs?

 

[dongonzalos]

Why can they not stay at broadstreet permanently? That seems to make perfect sense to me. They will have a lot of what they need already in place, the extra facilities would be of benefit to others and it could increase rather than decrease the community offering.

Because I guess they run a business and Higgs is available and a better business option. That until very recently we were moving away from. Perfect time to negotiate a bargain just like they did with the Ricoh. That until very recently we were moving away from

 

[dongonzalos]

I don't think people disagree with that do they? Do you think it is actual justification? Do you really think they shouldn't take any blame at all for it as it is "just business"?


Do you think it is just a co-incidence that Higgs sell up, just as a city of rugby thing is launched by the company they sold to, then wasps suddenly change their minds from broadstreet to higgs?

I think us continually until very recently saying we are moving away from both Higgs and the Ricoh.
Provides Wasps with a golden opportunity.
The fact in both incidences it seems we were bluffing and we came back to the table when it was all a bit too late. Leaves me struggling a little bit with the outrage towards other parties.
We set this up for them
They are taking full advantage it seems.
It's shit I am not happy about it. However I know (IMO) who to blame

 

[Nick]

Because I guess they run a business and Higgs is available and a better business option. That until very recently we were moving away from. Perfect time to negotiate a bargain just like they did with the Ricoh. That until very recently we were moving away from

Were we moving away from it? People keep using that to justify but was any notice given?

If we are going by press and public statements then surely Higgs should have turned Wasps down because they are looking for stadiums in London, or they are going to Broadstreet?

 

[Nick]

I think us continually until very recently saying we are moving away from both Higgs and the Ricoh.
Provides Wasps with a golden opportunity.
The fact in both incidences it seems we were bluffing and we came back to the table when it was all a bit too late. Leaves me struggling a little bit with the outrage towards other parties.
We set this up for them
They are taking full advantage it seems.
It's shit I am not happy about it. However I know (IMO) who to blame

It leaves you struggling to see why people are angry at other parties? Honestly?

 

[covcity4life]

Can the football league stop owners displacing the club if a offer exists from a potential owner?

Or is it all in sisu hands?

 

[Ian1779]

Because I guess they run a business and Higgs is available and a better business option. That until very recently we were moving away from. Perfect time to negotiate a bargain just like they did with the Ricoh. That until very recently we were moving away from

Were we? Didn't realise that all rental agreements had been cancelled... In fact seeing as we recently extended our stay at Ricoh for 2 more years, not sure how that translates to we are moving away from.

Contracts have to be renewed/agreed at various points - but your justification of Wasps actions seem to be based on some 'supposed' comments rather than any firm actions.

 

[Astute]

They are taking full advantage it seems.
It's shit I am not happy about it. However I know (IMO) who to blame

So do I. SISU, Wasps, Higgs and CCC.

 

[Ian1779]

I think us continually until very recently saying we are moving away from both Higgs and the Ricoh.
Provides Wasps with a golden opportunity.
The fact in both incidences it seems we were bluffing and we came back to the table when it was all a bit too late. Leaves me struggling a little bit with the outrage towards other parties.
We set this up for them
They are taking full advantage it seems.
It's shit I am not happy about it. However I know (IMO) who to blame

You providing excuses for Wasps, CCC and Higgs more like.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Played against Broadstreet a few times in my youth. We were one of their nearest rivals and had a complete white wash of them all the way up to colts. I believe anything that has been added to the ground can only be done temporary and has to be dismantled in two years.

 

[stupot07]

I'm not following the ins and outs, but from what I've read CCFC have been offered space for the academy but decided they want first team as well so they can profit from selling Ryton.

Yeah, you're right, your obviously not filling the ins and outs, you've juts made half of that up.

Wasps have offered up to 3 hours use in the evening of their kicking barn, we do not know of that's enough to satisfy cat 2 status, they will also take sole use of 2.5 of the remaining 4 grass pitches. In addition CSF don't want them their post 2017, so it looks like empty offers.

And in nowhere has it been said about selling ryton for the profit..

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[chiefdave]

However take your CCFC glasses off and ask yourself which is best and will require least cost?

Broadstreet would be cheaper wouldn't it? For a start would Broadstreet charge them £400K for the land. Also there is already existing rugby facilities at broadstreet and Wasps have spent money to have the facilities improved and pitches laid.
The planning at the moment is only 2 years as it is supposed to be temporary but I see no reason it couldn't be made permanent.

So it would be cheaper, quicker and cause less disruption to others. Also has surrounding land for any future expansion.

 

[stupot07]

Regarding Wasps choosing the Higgs site over others.

I don't think it is a case of let's screw CCFC.
Until the last few weeks CCFC were talking about building their own academy.
If you are looking at sites for a new training centre and one of the sites happens to be a purpose built sporting facility already set up for an elite team that you only need to modify.
I would guess it's good business practice to go that way

Its not true though is it. Anderson has been approaching them for some time about staying long term, the BPA story was 4-6 weeks ago, and Anderson saying he was exploring staying at the Ricoh long term was months ago, so its untrue to say that uptil a few weeks ago we were talking about a new combined stadium / academy.

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