Some of our fans (2 Viewers)

[skybluecam]

I don’t know, but in amongst them none of them has the qualities of a McFazdean for example.

It's mad how McFadzean has become a demigod player-manager figure since he left the club.

The fact is in 22/23 we were defensively solid because we had a back 5 and 2 holding midfielders, and Vik did the work of two players up front so we rarely committed men forward.

His "leadership" did little for us last season and we actually kept some clean sheets straight after he was dropped.

 

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[Perennial Lurker]

It's mad how McFadzean has become a demigod player-manager figure since he left the club.

The fact is in 22/23 we were defensively solid because we had a back 5 and 2 holding midfielders, and Vik did the work of two players up front so we rarely committed men forward.

His "leadership" did little for us last season and we actually kept some clean sheets straight after he was dropped.

Same with Viveash . We never started or ended a season badly when he was here .....
Biggest loss for me is Dennis Lawrence

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

It's mad how McFadzean has become a demigod player-manager figure since he left the club.

The fact is in 22/23 we were defensively solid because we had a back 5 and 2 holding midfielders, and Vik did the work of two players up front so we rarely committed men forward.

His "leadership" did little for us last season and we actually kept some clean sheets straight after he was dropped.

It’s not always about having the players in the squad so much as it can be on the bench and in training.

Since you mentioned Faz look at what he’s doing now at Blackburn. He’s dictating the defence from the sidelines. That’ll be a massive help for them

 

[clint van damme]

His "leadership" did little for us last season and we actually kept some clean sheets straight after he was dropped.

Which is why he was let go.
But we clearly miss that type of player attitude wise.

 

[Travs]

Hear this a lot, don't agree. As fans we impact upon performance, I don't think we should be entitled to express frustration and create a toxic atmosphere just because we've paid money. Appreciate there are varying levels to this.

I think fans are entitled to if they want.... whether they perhaps should is a very different matter.

On the subject of entitlement.... i think that a lot fans assume that because they pay for a ticket/season ticket/etc entitles them to a guarantee of success...... just because they were "told" that we'd do well this season..... (company trying to sell something in "bigging up their product" shocker)

In real terms, it entitles you to nothing but entry to the match.

 

[Adge]

Which is why he was let go.
But we clearly miss that type of player attitude wise.

And in the dressing room no doubt.

 

[KG7]

I think fans are entitled to if they want.... whether they perhaps should is a very different matter.

On the subject of entitlement.... i think that a lot fans assume that because they pay for a ticket/season ticket/etc entitles them to a guarantee of success...... just because they were "told" that we'd do well this season..... (company trying to sell something in "bigging up their product" shocker)

In real terms, it entitles you to nothing but entry to the match.

Your thoughts on entitlement for success are my thoughts on venting frustrations.

Out of interest, why do you think buying a ticket entitles us to rage if things aren't going well?

 

[oscillatewildly]

Your thoughts on entitlement for success are my thoughts on venting frustrations.

Out of interest, why do you think buying a ticket entitles us to rage if things aren't going well?

'Yer pays yer money'....

 

[KG7]

'Yer pays yer money'....

I know the phrase, but my question is, why?

We pay our money to watch / support, why is it commonly accepted that because we pay our money to watch we are then entitled to moan / vent / rage when it's not going how we like it?!?

Personally, I don't think paying £20-£40 gives you the entitlement to say or shout what you want. It gives you the entitlement to turn up and watch.

Also appreciate it's a double edged sword, the same energy that creates the atmospheres we've enjoyed over the last few years can tip into this, I just don't agree with the concept that we are entitled to moan because we've paid.

 

[oscillatewildly]

I know the phrase, but my question is, why?

We pay our money to watch / support, why is it commonly accepted that because we pay our money to watch we are then entitled to moan / vent / rage when it's not going how we like it?!?

Personally, I don't think paying £20-£40 gives you the entitlement to say or shout what you want. It gives you the entitlement to turn up and watch.

Also appreciate it's a double edged sword, the same energy that creates the atmospheres we've enjoyed over the last few years can tip into this, I just don't agree with the concept that we are entitled to moan because we've paid.

Wow!
How are you on match day dress codes?

 

[KG7]

Wow!
How are you on match day dress codes?

Why wow?

I say you've paid your money, wear what you want.

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Your thoughts on entitlement for success are my thoughts on venting frustrations.

Out of interest, why do you think buying a ticket entitles us to rage if things aren't going well?

Things can't away go well but if you pay good money a ticket for any entertainment you have a good right to vent your frustrations.Many times this season I have seen certain players leaving the field (on very good money) who have not even broken sweat.Why?

 

[KG7]

Things can't away go well but if you pay good money a ticket for any entertainment you have a good right to vent your frustrations.Many times this season I have seen certain players leaving the field (on very good money) who have not even broken sweat.Why?

Yep, I'm familiar with the phrase, but I don't agree that choosing to pay your money to watch our team earns earns us an entitlement to vent and am asking what the logic / thought process is behind it.

Of course, there's an argument that in lots of other forms of entertainment it's not acceptable to moan or shout abuse at the performers or the artists, but I'm sure this conversation has been had on this forum.

 

[oscillatewildly]

Why wow?

I say you've paid your money, wear what you want.

But they can't express dissatisfaction because you don't agree with that?
Have you ever thought of wildly cheering to drown out the disdain?

 

[oscillatewildly]

Yep, I'm familiar with the phrase, but I don't agree that choosing to pay your money to watch our team earns earns us an entitlement to vent and am asking what the logic / thought process is behind it.

Of course, there's an argument that in lots of other forms of entertainment it's not acceptable to moan or shout abuse at the performers or the artists, but I'm sure this conversation has been had on this forum.

Just out of interest, are you against all forms of 'protest'?

 

[KG7]

But they can't express dissatisfaction because you don't agree with that?
Have you ever thought of wildly cheering to drown out the disdain?

The fact that I don't agree with it has got nothing to do with whether they're entitled to do it or not.

I agree with the right to protest but what we're talking about isn't protest - it's people feeling entitled to vent at a sportsman because they've paid £20-£45 and they think it earns them the right.

Anyway, we're 1-0 up and I'm supposed to be working, will check back in tomorrow to see if anyone can talk me through their logic.

PUSB

 

[oscillatewildly]

The fact that I don't agree with it has got nothing to do with whether they're entitled to do it or not.

I agree with the right to protest but what we're talking about isn't protest - it's people feeling entitled to vent at a sportsman because they've paid £20-£45 and they think it earns them the right.

Anyway, we're 1-0 up and I'm supposed to be working, will check back in tomorrow to see if anyone can talk me through their logic.

PUSB

If it's not an illegal act then surely they are entitled to?
As you are to cheer a poor performance.
Agreed there should be boundaries to what is acceptable criticism.
Nothing like a good boo and jeer to vent the spleen though.

 

[Travs]

I know the phrase, but my question is, why?

We pay our money to watch / support, why is it commonly accepted that because we pay our money to watch we are then entitled to moan / vent / rage when it's not going how we like it?!?

Personally, I don't think paying £20-£40 gives you the entitlement to say or shout what you want. It gives you the entitlement to turn up and watch.

Also appreciate it's a double edged sword, the same energy that creates the atmospheres we've enjoyed over the last few years can tip into this, I just don't agree with the concept that we are entitled to moan because we've paid.

Don't get me wrong.... i'm with you in general..... i perhaps worded it wrong.

I believe fans are free to moan if they like..... but i don't think anything good comes of it, i don't necessarily think they should..... and of course personal abuse is a different matter entirely..... the best thing we can do really is create a partisan atmosphere, and leave the working of the club to the experts.

 

[KG7]

If it's not an illegal act then surely they are entitled to?
As you are to cheer a poor performance.
Agreed there should be boundaries to what is acceptable criticism.
Nothing like a good boo and jeer to vent the spleen though.

It’s the feeling entitled and the venting your spleen that I disagree with I think.


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[SkyBlueAussie]

I hate to think what some of the supporters on here would have been like during the 70's and 80's when an annual relegation battle was the best you could look forward to. It didn't matter! 8-11,000 size crowds during the depression of the later 80's. It really didn't matter!
Be patient guys. It will come good eventually. We won't go down, but prob mid-table at best this year.
Life's Not A Race.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

It’s the feeling entitled and the venting your spleen that I disagree with I think.


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yeah while acknowledging it’s anyone’s right to do what they want, I’ve never really understood what anyone gains from booing & going mad at the team. Each to their own though.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I hate to think what some of the supporters on here would have been like during the 70's and 80's when an annual relegation battle was the best you could look forward to. It didn't matter! 8-11,000 size crowds during the depression of the later 80's. It really didn't matter!
Be patient guys. It will come good eventually. We won't go down, but prob mid-table at best this year.
Life's Not A Race.

wasn’t just the 70s & 80s either- pre relegation I think my own low point was 91-92 and the Terry Butcher/ Don Howe period.. crowds going as low as 8,000, HR like a morgue, people just apathetic, starting matches like we were aiming for a 0-0 and looking at the team just knowing that another nasty relegation battle was on the way.

 

[bigfatronssba]

I hate to think what some of the supporters on here would have been like during the 70's and 80's when an annual relegation battle was the best you could look forward to. It didn't matter! 8-11,000 size crowds during the depression of the later 80's. It really didn't matter!
Be patient guys. It will come good eventually. We won't go down, but prob mid-table at best this year.
Life's Not A Race.

I can’t speak for the 80s, but I remember the 90s and it was no different to now.

When the team tried they were supported and praised.
When they couldn’t be arsed they were booed and criticised

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I can’t speak for the 80s, but I remember the 90s and it was no different to now.

When the team tried they were supported and praised.
When they couldn’t be arsed they were booed and criticised

I think it’s the fact we had it so good for a while, and now it’s slipped back into being the same as before. For a while there we were up there with the loudest, most vibrant & passionate fans there are- no matter how matches went.

It often happens, we had our ‘rebirth’ as a club and a resurgence in support, but as it grows you end up with a fair few who just want to be ‘entertained’ & if that doesn’t happen they turn. There’s now a sense after the last few years of “ok what next then?”, and clearly we aren’t delivering much to excite people. Human nature really, but means the atmospheres we used to have are gone.

 

[Bigelvesy]

I think pre season hype and inflated expectations have led us to where we are now.
Thats not to say that the fans, including myself, were wrong to be hyped. The club were actively promoting it all of pre season and the “media” also latched onto it too.

Unfortunately, i think a number of mistakes were made in pre season, not securing the right players in the right positions, not having enough time to embed the new coaches and the new? Ideas they brought etc.

I think the feeling drained from the squad a little bit when the window closed, when sheaf got injured and the fact they started the season slowly (and poorly bar the oxford game) plus add in what is likely to be atleast two sizeable off field issues affecting Robins/the players.

This season wont be a relegation battle, that will turn around and we will be more than comfortably safe, but i dont think the turn around will be quite enough to get us back into a play off race, unless serious reinforcements arrive in January.

Unfortunately i think its very unlikely now this will be the season it had been hyped up to be, but thats fine. We go again next year if that turns out to be the case. Clubs have these kind of regressions, its really disappointing to be almost writing off this season this many games in, but its also far away from being a relegation battle season, no need to wet the bed and throw toys out the pram and sack the manager.

 

[bigfatronssba]

I think pre season hype and inflated expectations have led us to where we are now.
Thats not to say that the fans, including myself, were wrong to be hyped. The club were actively promoting it all of pre season and the “media” also latched onto it too.

Unfortunately, i think a number of mistakes were made in pre season, not securing the right players in the right positions, not having enough time to embed the new coaches and the new? Ideas they brought etc.

I think the feeling drained from the squad a little bit when the window closed, when sheaf got injured and the fact they started the season slowly (and poorly bar the oxford game) plus add in what is likely to be atleast two sizeable off field issues affecting Robins/the players.

This season wont be a relegation battle, that will turn around and we will be more than comfortably safe, but i dont think the turn around will be quite enough to get us back into a play off race, unless serious reinforcements arrive in January.

Unfortunately i think its very unlikely now this will be the season it had been hyped up to be, but thats fine. We go again next year if that turns out to be the case. Clubs have these kind of regressions, its really disappointing to be almost writing off this season this many games in, but its also far away from being a relegation battle season, no need to wet the bed and throw toys out the pram and sack the manager.

The problem is next season many fans won’t respond to the hype that the club will inevitably push and we won’t sell 22k season tickets

 

[Ring Of Steel]

The problem is next season many fans won’t respond to the hype that the club will inevitably push and we won’t sell 22k season tickets

That’s life, not much that can be done about it. I remember when Paul Fletcher announced- what was is again, “operation premiership?” Padded seats being sold & all sorts. We went on to almost get relegated if memory serves.

Set yourself up like that & you’d better deliver or people will stop going, that’s the way it is & you can’t blame people really.

 

[bigfatronssba]

That’s life, not much that can be done about it. I remember when Paul Fletcher announced- what was is again, “operation premiership?” Padded seats being sold & all sorts. We went on to almost get relegated if memory serves.

Set yourself up like that & you’d better deliver or people will stop going, that’s the way it is & you can’t blame people really.

But that is why it’s important to not write this season off yet. We have to finish as high as possible and not carry the negativity into the summer

 

[Ring Of Steel]

But that is why it’s important to not write this season off yet. We have to finish as high as possible and not carry the negativity into the summer

I agree.

 

[Captain_Slackbladder]

I think it’s the fact we had it so good for a while, and now it’s slipped back into being the same as before. For a while there we were up there with the loudest, most vibrant & passionate fans there are- no matter how matches went.

It often happens, we had our ‘rebirth’ as a club and a resurgence in support, but as it grows you end up with a fair few who just want to be ‘entertained’ & if that doesn’t happen they turn. There’s now a sense after the last few years of “ok what next then?”, and clearly we aren’t delivering much to excite people. Human nature really, but means the atmospheres we used to have are gone.

I think it was much worse then in the late 80s/early 90s. Looking back, the abuse David Smith got was appalling. He got booed when the teams were announced just because the supporters needed someone to hate. The crowds were terrible too. HR often less than half full. The man who turned things around for me was Big.Ron, instantly added a few thousand to the gate which largely stayed with the club

 

[Bigelvesy]

But that is why it’s important to not write this season off yet. We have to finish as high as possible and not carry the negativity into the summer

I agree too, i did try to caveat my 'writing off the season' with a 'almost' and 'if it comes to that'.
Unfortunately i think it would take a monumental turnaround at this point to make us competitively challenging for a top 6 spot. I'd bloody love to see it though!

 

[Adge]

I think it was much worse then in the late 80s/early 90s. Looking back, the abuse David Smith got was appalling. He got booed when the teams were announced just because the supporters needed someone to hate. The crowds were terrible too. HR often less than half full. The man who turned things around for me was Big.Ron, instantly added a few thousand to the gate which largely stayed with the club

Smith was hung out to dry by Sillett. Should have taken him out of the firing line when things were not going so well and he went out like a flame.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Smith was hung out to dry by Sillett. Should have taken him out of the firing line when things were not going so well and he went out like a flame.

Not sure I agree. Smith looked one of the most exciting players we’d had in ages when he burst onto the scene. That went away for whatever reason but he was still a very reliable player on the left, never really let us down- and who else did we have to come in for him?

The blame all goes on the fans for that one.

 

[clint van damme]

Smith was hung out to dry by Sillett. Should have taken him out of the firing line when things were not going so well and he went out like a flame.

He was also hung out to dry by Sillett because he,was told to curb his attacking tendencies so as not to expose Downes who sillett loved.

 

[Adge]

Not sure I agree. Smith looked one of the most exciting players we’d had in ages when he burst onto the scene. That went away for whatever reason but he was still a very reliable player on the left, never really let us down- and who else did we have to come in for him?

The blame all goes on the fans for that one.

Both Sillett and the fans then really.